Do you like mathematics ? - Page 3

Oceanbreeze · 02-24-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endymion

I know what you mean. I always bought the solutions manual, if the book had one. Then I would never pay attention in class anyway and just work on problems.

I wasn't that industrious. I didn't care. I just wanted to "do my time", and get out of there. I managed, somehow, to understand enough to get by, but that was about it. I got by.

Endymion · 02-24-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Can we shoot you?

LOL, meanie!

kalboy · 04-19-2006, 02:58 PM

this thread reflects the decline of math and science morality and ability of US students.

me_punctured · 04-20-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalboy

this thread reflects the decline of math and science morality and ability of US students.

Not of all of us have had the sheer fortunate of receiving a quality education in mathematics from the inception and studying it at the top leading public university in the U.S. like you, kalboy...

Kitsune · 04-20-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

I've been incredibly fortunate to have had interpreters who had Engineering degrees. I'm not quite sure how I would have plucked so much from my Calculus lectures if it wasn't for those interpreters!

Endymion, YOU BASTARD!

The only interpreter I know over here who has an engineering degree is my ex-boyfriend (I helped him study for his interpreting exam) :-P

yankees · 04-20-2006, 11:19 AM

lovE maths.....yammy

webexplorer · 04-20-2006, 12:58 PM

I used to be excelled in algebra at high school like average B+. When I took a test at college, I received C or D. I asked the math supervisor that there was really something wrong with the test. I always get good grades. He said nothing is wrong with the test machine. A couple of years later, two students finally convinced a supervisor to check the machine, and discoverd that it is screwed up. I was mad about my math supervisor. That's how I lost my interest in math - no matter what because it is a permanent on the report card for a job. It's over.

MaxUFC · 04-22-2006, 08:06 AM

I loves math as for shopping sale (25%...50%....etc) + state taxes. Look for good % on credit cards. Firgured out on how much should I paid to less debts little quickly. Ooh yea on cooking anything with measure cups to be good tasting!

2+2=4 and 2x2=4 still amazed me

Y · 04-22-2006, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxUFC

I loves math as for shopping sale (25%...50%....etc) + state taxes. Look for good % on credit cards. Firgured out on how much should I paid to less debts little quickly. Ooh yea on cooking anything with measure cups to be good tasting!

2+2=4 and 2x2=4 still amazed me

Yeah me too... I enjoy simple math that are useful
and reasonable for daily basis, but I could NOT understand
Endymion's earlier postings on this thread... I still
can NOT see how Endymion's postings would be helpful
at all ?

deafteen · 04-22-2006, 10:05 AM

I kinda like math. I lack mathematics knowledge but im trying to get better with it. Higher education means better future.

Endymion · 04-22-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y

Yeah me too... I enjoy simple math that are useful
and reasonable for daily basis, but I could NOT understand
Endymion's earlier postings on this thread... I still
can NOT see how Endymion's postings would be helpful
at all ?

Sorry if I did a bad job clarifying that! What I showed was math art, which is pretty interesting in itself, but isn't the most important part of math. Math is used in business, science, and even home remodeling all the time, including complex mathematics.

Here's an example. Let's say you own a business. You decide to make measurements. If you sell a product (maybe your grandmother's cookies) for $1 dollar, have a hundred thousand people buy it. For two dollars? 98 thousand people buy it. Let's make a table:

Quote:

Price of Cookie, # Grandma's Cookies Sold
$1, 100,000
$2, 98,000
$3, 90,000
$4, 70,000
$5, 20,000

(see the attachment for what that would look like on a graph)

So now, how many sales of grandma's cookies do you lose if you raise the price from $1 to $2?

Easy. We look at the table. We see there are 100 sales for $1, and 98 sales for $2. That means if you raise the price to $2, you lose only two thousand customers. In fact, you make a lot more money if you raise the price from $1 to $2.

Now, what if you wanted to raise the price from $3.51 to $3.52? Maybe you want to know how much money you can make if you raise the price by one cent. First, you need to know how many customers you will lose. That's harder. We don't have a $3.51 and $3.52 on our table.

That's where the advanced math comes in (I try to give a brief summary, but you can ignore this paragraph). We use something from statistics called regression analysis to figure out what the equation of the line is (is the equation y = 2+x? y=sqrt(9-x^2)? y = 1/(x-3)+3? etc.). Then we use calculus. We do something called "taking the derivative of the equation" -- which gives us another equation. Once we have that equation, we use that to solve the problem.

Thus, we can now figure out how many customers will leave if we raise the price from $3.51 to $3.52. Then we'll know if your business makes money or loses money by raising the price.

Endymion · 04-22-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafteen

I kinda like math. I lack mathematics knowledge but im trying to get better with it. Higher education means better future.

Did you make that animation on your signature? It's awesome!

Y · 04-22-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endymion

Sorry if I did a bad job clarifying that! What I showed was math art, which is pretty interesting in itself, but isn't the most important part of math. Math is used in business, science, and even home remodeling all the time, including complex mathematics.

Here's an example. Let's say you own a business. You decide to make measurements. If you sell a product (maybe your grandmother's cookies) for $1 dollar, have a hundred thousand people buy it. For two dollars? 98 thousand people buy it. Let's make a table:

So now, how many sales of grandma's cookies do you lose if you raise the price from $1 to $2?

Easy. We look at the table. We see there are 100 sales for $1, and 98 sales for $2. That means if you raise the price to $2, you lose only two thousand customers. In fact, you make a lot more money if you raise the price from $1 to $2.

Now, what if you wanted to raise the price from $3.51 to $3.52? Maybe you want to know how much money you can make if you raise the price by one cent. First, you need to know how many customers you will lose. That's harder. We don't have a $3.51 and $3.52 on our table.

That's where the advanced math comes in (I try to give a brief summary, but you can ignore this paragraph). We use something from statistics called regression analysis to figure out what the equation of the line is (is the equation y = 2+x? y=sqrt(9-x^2)? y = 1/(x-3)+3? etc.). Then we use calculus. We do something called "taking the derivative of the equation" -- which gives us another equation. Once we have that equation, we use that to solve the problem.

Thus, we can now figure out how many customers will leave if we raise the price from $3.51 to $3.52. Then we'll know if your business makes money or loses money by raising the price.

Alright ... Thank u for the clarification.

I normally try to use common sense even if
we raise only one cent we probably do not lose
as many customers as much as if we raise one dollar more.

I wonder if this math would help making decisions
about Real Estate whether I should keep stay put at
my condo or sell it and then relocate to a cheaper area ?

Endymion · 04-23-2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y

Alright ... Thank u for the clarification.

I normally try to use common sense even if
we raise only one cent we probably do not lose
as many customers as much as if we raise one dollar more.

I wonder if this math would help making decisions
about Real Estate whether I should keep stay put at
my condo or sell it and then relocate to a cheaper area ?

I'm glad to help! I was worried I didn't do a very good job of explaining the concepts, but it looks like everything turned out well.

Math is definitely applicable to real estate. In finance, you'll hear the term "Time Value of Money" which refers to a certain equation. Future = Present * (1+r)^t. Essentially, the Time Value of Money equation tells you how much money you'll have if you invest your money at "r" percent for t years. If you invest $100 for 2 years at 10% (you calculate it as .10 instead of 10%), you'll have $121 dollars.

Lets say you put a hundred thousand dollars down on a house. Let's say that the house value will increase 10% every year. You want to sell the house in five years. What's the value when you sell the house in five years? $161,051.

Simple, right?

Now let's say you have two possible houses. One is in an area that averages 10% growth. The other averages 8% growth. At first, it seems smart to take the house with 10%. But let's make the problem more realistic. Let's say you intend to charge rent. The house that grows 10% is in a part of town full of college students who play landlords for the cheapest deal, so you can only charge $750 rent a month. The house that grows 8% is in a little different area, you can raise your price to $800 a month. (Though if you were charging that little rent for a full five-bedroom house, you'd have to be nuts!)

Now, which house do you invest your $100,000 in (assuming no complicating factors, assuming annual interest, and assuming you reinvest the rent you earn immediately into something that gives you the same interest rate)?

To do this, we have to rearrange the Time Value of Money equation and add a bunch of things to it. The equation considers a couple things -- payments in a year, present value, future value, time of investment, and rate. (You can even complicate it more with something called Net Present Value, but we don't need to go into that)

House #1: (10%, $750): $200,000 (Future value)
House #2: (8%, $800): $203,000 (Future value)

Obviously, you're going to want to invest in house #2. We can change that and adjust the equations to figure out if you want to keep your condo or relocate.

By the way, this stuff I just showed isn't calculus or statistics, it's a different part that deals with financial mathematics. Though finance and real estate definitely use calculus and more. That's why the posh empty-suits are making the big bucks; they took those courses and they understand the basics (or how to interpret the results) of the calculations they're using, even if they have computer applications doing the work for them. In fact, if you go to a business school worth its salt for a bachelor's degree (one that can get you a good entry-level corporate job), you're required to take statistics and some sort of class that covers calculus, even if only in passing.

You might be interested in this Wikipedia page on the Time Value of Money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_value_of_money

Humblegirl · 04-23-2006, 11:41 AM

i really hates math!! blahh!

angelstar819 · 04-27-2006, 08:28 PM

math is alright..the only math i liked was geometry..because i loved how it forces you to think critically and i had so much fun doing the homework..lol..n then algebra was okay..the math i really hated was trig and precalc..that was soooo hard for me..i had to struggle in those classes when i was in high school..then calculus was sooo much easier than precalc n trig i thought for some reason..im currently taking calculus for my biology major..integration oh how fun..lol

shezzbeav · 04-28-2006, 04:18 AM

I hate mathematics, so my calculator is my best friend

EagleCherokee63 · 04-30-2006, 01:46 AM

I was young I failed so many times in high school algebra. I really hate it before until I take some in college time. I was so frustrated so I had go to tutor for algebra. I finally passed the alegbra class then moved up to college algebra. I also tutored those deaf students, sometime they don't understand how to use algebra homework. I have studied for 7 hours and have passed in the advanced college algebra course. Passed the algebra test and made a good grade. I also passed the trig. class. My teacher was interested showing me on computer with a graph on there. So at that time, I was not interested at it when I looked at the computer!! When I got older, I realized that my old teacher was right about it.

Opps!!!

04-30-2006, 02:14 AM

I grew up liked math...when I was in highschool, I was spoiled by teachers because I was the only one deaf student at school...these teachers dismissed me for not taking Algebra or Trio or Chemistry...I begged them not to take it...I only took Business Math and others..now, I regret it...I wish I should've taken these Algebra or Trio or Chemistry....

starrygaze · 04-30-2006, 11:06 AM

well I was very good in math long time ago! I passed many tests in College. I completed Pre-calculus algerba and Geometry both. I know what math is about. Can you find the zero? Question is easy!

Levonian · 04-30-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endymion

That's where the advanced math comes in (I try to give a brief summary, but you can ignore this paragraph). We use something from statistics called regression analysis to figure out what the equation of the line is (is the equation y = 2+x? y=sqrt(9-x^2)? y = 1/(x-3)+3? etc.). Then we use calculus. We do something called "taking the derivative of the equation" -- which gives us another equation. Once we have that equation, we use that to solve the problem.

Endymion, are the examples you outlined ‘real’ calculus, or ‘business’ calculus? I’ve never been quite able to figure out what the difference is between the two. Here in California, ‘real’ calculus is a tough, 3-semester, 15-unit sequence. Once it is completed, the unfortunate victim may then progress to linear algebra. ‘Business’ calculus, on the other hand, is some sort of Mickey Mouse 2-semester, 6-unit sequence, which is an end unto itself—you go no further after it is completed. I know an MBA who took 2 semesters of ‘business calculus, yet can’t even explain what a derivative is. So what is this mysterious ‘business’ calculus? I’m guessing that it doesn’t involve curvilinear functions at all, but rather involves linear functions which have an abrupt ‘bend’ in then, if you get my meaning. Maybe it’s more like an advanced applied statistics class?

LisaMarie · 04-30-2006, 04:28 PM

I really like it because it make my brain busy and i like the way it works up in my mind to prove that im alive! heh.. jk! but yeah I like to do math. its fun and its kinda like puzzle.. sometime i like to challenge myself to answer the question right away without counting or figure out..

Y · 04-30-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endymion

I'm glad to help! I was worried I didn't do a very good job of explaining the concepts, but it looks like everything turned out well.

Math is definitely applicable to real estate. In finance, you'll hear the term "Time Value of Money" which refers to a certain equation. Future = Present * (1+r)^t. Essentially, the Time Value of Money equation tells you how much money you'll have if you invest your money at "r" percent for t years. If you invest $100 for 2 years at 10% (you calculate it as .10 instead of 10%), you'll have $121 dollars.

Lets say you put a hundred thousand dollars down on a house. Let's say that the house value will increase 10% every year. You want to sell the house in five years. What's the value when you sell the house in five years? $161,051.

Simple, right?

Now let's say you have two possible houses. One is in an area that averages 10% growth. The other averages 8% growth. At first, it seems smart to take the house with 10%. But let's make the problem more realistic. Let's say you intend to charge rent. The house that grows 10% is in a part of town full of college students who play landlords for the cheapest deal, so you can only charge $750 rent a month. The house that grows 8% is in a little different area, you can raise your price to $800 a month. (Though if you were charging that little rent for a full five-bedroom house, you'd have to be nuts!)

Now, which house do you invest your $100,000 in (assuming no complicating factors, assuming annual interest, and assuming you reinvest the rent you earn immediately into something that gives you the same interest rate)?

To do this, we have to rearrange the Time Value of Money equation and add a bunch of things to it. The equation considers a couple things -- payments in a year, present value, future value, time of investment, and rate. (You can even complicate it more with something called Net Present Value, but we don't need to go into that)

House #1: (10%, $750): $200,000 (Future value)
House #2: (8%, $800): $203,000 (Future value)

Obviously, you're going to want to invest in house #2. We can change that and adjust the equations to figure out if you want to keep your condo or relocate.

By the way, this stuff I just showed isn't calculus or statistics, it's a different part that deals with financial mathematics. Though finance and real estate definitely use calculus and more. That's why the posh empty-suits are making the big bucks; they took those courses and they understand the basics (or how to interpret the results) of the calculations they're using, even if they have computer applications doing the work for them. In fact, if you go to a business school worth its salt for a bachelor's degree (one that can get you a good entry-level corporate job), you're required to take statistics and some sort of class that covers calculus, even if only in passing.

You might be interested in this Wikipedia page on the Time Value of Money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_value_of_money

Thank u very much Endymion for this good posting !

At this point, I do not intend to rent it out at all but
I was trying to figure out whether I should stay put at
my own home "forever" and/or sell it to make a profit and
then move to another home...

starrygaze · 05-01-2006, 01:16 AM

prefer complexity of linear algerba. I never take business math. Calculus requires algerba experiences and knowledegs before you would take course. Without algebra, you can't understand Calculus.

With Rational Zero Theorem and Zero of Polynomials, I always love to find many zeros in complex polynomials. These maths are fun and puzzle.

Algerba can't solve the complexity physics as Calculus can do.

Nesmuth · 05-01-2006, 02:41 AM

The highest I done is Combinatorics.

It was a good adventure up there

Richard

starrygaze · 05-01-2006, 04:43 AM

Nope, have not try that Combinatorics yet, That resembles matrix numbers. I did with Matrix in college before, but I forget long time ago! I wish I know. Sorry. GOOD LUCK!

View Poll Results: What do you think of math ?
I love it	26	36.11%
I like it a little but not much	19	26.39%
I'm not interested	2	2.78%
I hate it	23	31.94%
I have really no idea	1	1.39%
Other	1	1.39%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

04-20-2006, 11:19 AM	#66 (permalink)
yankees Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 298	lovE maths.....yammy __________________ I've got this feeling deep inside, But what it is I don't know. My engine starts to change, My mind gets filled with rage. I raise my fist up to the sky. What do you see! The fear I see when I look in your eyes, Makes you believe I'm one of a kind. One of a kind! Fear I leave in the back of your mind, Makes you believe I'm... One of a kind!

04-22-2006, 10:05 AM	#70 (permalink)
deafteen ۩۞۩Deafteen۩۞۩ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: I live where hearing pople lives. Posts: 52	I kinda like math. I lack mathematics knowledge but im trying to get better with it. Higher education means better future. __________________ I love computer.. some say said i dont have a life but i do.I just dont know what to do with it.

04-30-2006, 04:28 PM	#82 (permalink)
LisaMarie Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MN Posts: 834	I really like it because it make my brain busy and i like the way it works up in my mind to prove that im alive! heh.. jk! but yeah I like to do math. its fun and its kinda like puzzle.. sometime i like to challenge myself to answer the question right away without counting or figure out.. __________________ LIVE YOUR DREAM!

05-01-2006, 04:43 AM	#86 (permalink)
starrygaze Sundog Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Shinar (Sumer) Posts: 2,320	Nope, have not try that Combinatorics yet, That resembles matrix numbers. I did with Matrix in college before, but I forget long time ago! I wish I know. Sorry. GOOD LUCK! __________________

Today
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04-19-2006, 02:58 PM	#63 (permalink)
kalboy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 243	this thread reflects the decline of math and science morality and ability of US students.

04-20-2006, 12:58 PM	#67 (permalink)
webexplorer I'm listening to everyone Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New England Posts: 3,458	I used to be excelled in algebra at high school like average B+. When I took a test at college, I received C or D. I asked the math supervisor that there was really something wrong with the test. I always get good grades. He said nothing is wrong with the test machine. A couple of years later, two students finally convinced a supervisor to check the machine, and discoverd that it is screwed up. I was mad about my math supervisor. That's how I lost my interest in math - no matter what because it is a permanent on the report card for a job. It's over.

04-22-2006, 08:06 AM	#68 (permalink)
MaxUFC GO PATRIOTS! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New England Posts: 2,037	I loves math as for shopping sale (25%...50%....etc) + state taxes. Look for good % on credit cards. Firgured out on how much should I paid to less debts little quickly. Ooh yea on cooking anything with measure cups to be good tasting! 2+2=4 and 2x2=4 still amazed me

04-23-2006, 11:41 AM	#75 (permalink)
Humblegirl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 216	i really hates math!! blahh!

04-27-2006, 08:28 PM	#76 (permalink)
angelstar819 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal !! Posts: 77	math is alright..the only math i liked was geometry..because i loved how it forces you to think critically and i had so much fun doing the homework..lol..n then algebra was okay..the math i really hated was trig and precalc..that was soooo hard for me..i had to struggle in those classes when i was in high school..then calculus was sooo much easier than precalc n trig i thought for some reason..im currently taking calculus for my biology major..integration oh how fun..lol

04-28-2006, 04:18 AM	#77 (permalink)
shezzbeav ...just a bloody beaver Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,197	I hate mathematics, so my calculator is my best friend

04-30-2006, 01:46 AM	#78 (permalink)
EagleCherokee63 Isaiah 40:31 Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,071	I was young I failed so many times in high school algebra. I really hate it before until I take some in college time. I was so frustrated so I had go to tutor for algebra. I finally passed the alegbra class then moved up to college algebra. I also tutored those deaf students, sometime they don't understand how to use algebra homework. I have studied for 7 hours and have passed in the advanced college algebra course. Passed the algebra test and made a good grade. I also passed the trig. class. My teacher was interested showing me on computer with a graph on there. So at that time, I was not interested at it when I looked at the computer!! When I got older, I realized that my old teacher was right about it. Opps!!!

04-30-2006, 02:14 AM	#79 (permalink)
coloravalanche Guest Posts: n/a	I grew up liked math...when I was in highschool, I was spoiled by teachers because I was the only one deaf student at school...these teachers dismissed me for not taking Algebra or Trio or Chemistry...I begged them not to take it...I only took Business Math and others..now, I regret it...I wish I should've taken these Algebra or Trio or Chemistry....

04-30-2006, 11:06 AM	#80 (permalink)
starrygaze Sundog Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Shinar (Sumer) Posts: 2,320	well I was very good in math long time ago! I passed many tests in College. I completed Pre-calculus algerba and Geometry both. I know what math is about. Can you find the zero? Question is easy!

05-01-2006, 01:16 AM	#84 (permalink)
starrygaze Sundog Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Shinar (Sumer) Posts: 2,320	prefer complexity of linear algerba. I never take business math. Calculus requires algerba experiences and knowledegs before you would take course. Without algebra, you can't understand Calculus. With Rational Zero Theorem and Zero of Polynomials, I always love to find many zeros in complex polynomials. These maths are fun and puzzle. Algerba can't solve the complexity physics as Calculus can do.

05-01-2006, 02:41 AM	#85 (permalink)
Nesmuth Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Southland of California Posts: 3,199	The highest I done is Combinatorics. It was a good adventure up there Richard