Cheri

ASL (American Sign Language) that signs made with the hands and other movements, including facial expressions and postures of the body,,


I noticed that some Deaf people aren't as good with English grammar or spelling, I am wondering if ASL Had something to do with it? Or is it because, of what school they attended; their parents or not learning how to pronunce words?


I do keep in mind that each child is different and their needs individual.. But, I also think that English communcation/grammer is very important goal in their life also, It is the way of commucate we have to understand each other to know what each other are saying.


Feel free to Debates

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VamPyroX

Yes, it does have an effect on English. I used to be a tutor for English for NTID students. I've seen their papers and their grammar is often horrible. I will then remind them that the structure is wrong and know what their response is? "That's how it's signed in ASL!" I also have a friend who is hearing and is an interpreter major. She told me that it's recommended that you don't talk and sign at the same time when trying to communicate in ASL. She said the reason was so that it wouldn't slow down your grammar and mess up your English speaking skills. When you're thinking in full-English, you can sign in ASL quickly and still maintain your thoughts. However, when you're talking while signing... then your signing slows down and you might skip a word or two. If this is done repeatedly, you might begin to speak in ASL. That's why most interpretering students are asked not to speak when signing in ASL.

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javapride

ASL is not written english, therefore ASL is only PURE langague for the communication purposes, if you want to teach kids english the best thing is TC ( total communication)

Jananaka

I think you can teach in ASL, just make sure as you teach English you show how it is a different language. Teach ASL grammar, too, so they can see the difference.

deafdyke

well it's not an ASL specific problem.....lots of oral kids have trouble with English too. The trouble is that ASLers approach English as a SECOND language. MANY native speakers of languages other then English have difficulty with English! Ever seen stuff from books on fractured English, such as "Are you feel better?" etc?

Tousi

Well, the proponents of the Bi-Bi approach claim that teaching students via ASL will guide students to attain literacy but I have seen no reliable proof of this.

diehardbiker

Half right and half wrong. ASL is indeed not a written english. ASL is just another LANGUAGE. English is one of known language used in the world. ASL has been known to spoke only in verbally. It was never transform into written format (Actually did attempt, and it was extremely difficult to read). Not just yet, someday MAYBE. Hundred thousand years, English was indruduced in spoken format... hundred years later, it turns into written language.

Often, deafies think ASL is just an gesture, or shortcuts for english. (Shook my head) Unfortunately they all got wrong idea. Why they got wrong idea? Simply because school refused to recongize ASL as language, thus refused to teach deafies the wonderful language known by us, ASL! Suppose school had taught ASL, thus enable deafies to SEPERATE ASL and English, then they WON'T have problem understand, and learn english. I learn this though ASL course, I dropped my jaw, not realize all about it. That was when I was about 26 years ago. I wish I had been taught what the heck is ASL all about.

As you all know, English has its sets of rules, just like any other language in the world, whatever it is Chinese, Korean, French, Spanish, whatever... they ALL have their own rules... How many of deafies KNEW there is sets of rules, and what it is in ASL language??? I bet you thousand dollars NOT MANY knew them yet!!!

Jananaka

Read "Deaf-centric Teaching" by Cynthia Bailes, published in Lois Bragg's Deaf World. Or the chapters from A Journey into the Deaf-World by Lane, Hoffmeister, & Bahan about language & literacy and Bi-Bi. They really have a lot of evidence that at least shows that bi-bi is way better than TC, MCE systems, or mainstreaming.

One of the reasons that written English is difficult for Deaf people to learn is that it is primarily a spoken language, just like ASL is a verbal/manual language. Teachers of Bi-Bi don't focus just on ASL, either. They make both languages accessible and teach the children how to translate back and forth.

Jananaka

"The trouble is that ASLers approach English as a SECOND language."


That's not the trouble! By approaching it as a second language, they can teach the rules of both languages along with how to separate them.

rjr2006

When I was adopted, my folks taught me Signed Exact English as a primary language. They never had any deaf children and the person who was on the phone with mom, he/she only gave her two choices and it was either ASL, or Signed Exact English. So my mom chose Signed Exact English, because she wanted me to able to do well in school. She communicates with me using oral and little sign language since she isn't good at signing.

I agree with VamPyroX, and he is right about how ASL make an impact on general education and communications with hearing people. I am doing well in high school without Deaf Education support, and I improve my English skills by discussing my mistakes on essays with my English teacher, reading books, speech, and communicating with hearing people who are experts in English language.

Tousi

Jananaka, thanks for your reply; it was but by a sheer stroke of presumption that I anticipated a response along those lines. Not that I know any better than anyone else regarding the basic question but until there's replicable proof, providing Bi-Biers stay the course, it will be a good 25 years (just a guess) before the pendulum swings the other way. In some circles I have been in, it is pretty much the consensus that there are not NEARLY enough BOTH deaf and hearing teachers who are PROFICIENT in BOTH English and ASL to fill all of the classrooms for the deaf in this country to pull this off. So time will tell; heck, make that 50 years. Lest you think I am just being negative, I will say I would love for that day of reckoning to have been yesterday!
I really and truly wish you well in your endeavors, whatever they are.

Jananaka

Thanks, Tousi. You are probably right and I'm sorry I got so excited. I do really like the philosophy, though, and I don't think it deserves automatic dismissal. I hope that even if it only exists in a few places and it's able to help a few more children learn that's better than nothing. Good luck to you, too.

Tousi

Janaka, never apologize for getting excited, especially if this is going to be your chosen career; I, on the other hand am into the sunset of my own .....sorta circling my wagons, if you will....for whatever its worth, I am HoH and utilize Pidgin and ASL(I mean true ASL)depending.......

I take it you are hearing? Can I ask what was the genesis of your interest?
Whatever it is, I wish you the best!

Cheri, is this topic going the way you meant? If not, which direction do you want to go? Btw, welcome back!

deafdyke

Yes, it IS! Research has indicated that Deaf kids make the same English mistakes as do kids who have a spoken language other then English, as their native language!
Agreed. That is where residental education can play a part b/c instead of dhh kids being scattered everywhere,they get their services at a central location!

signer16

Most hearing people who try and speak at the same time speak almost pure English. Usually the quality of signs is lost rather than the speaking.
Students who MOUTH the words can sometimes pull off pure ASL, but their signing is usually more English based than those who don't, (Believe me, I am a chronic "mouther", my last ASL teacher tried to break me of that habit, my ASL got A LOT better.).
When hearing people are voicing or mouthing they are thinking in ENGLISH, making it much harder to focus on the facial expressions and grammar of ASL.

To answer the original question, as I did just recently in a similar post, English is an AUDITORY language, based on PHONETICS, and deaf/hoh ppl can't hear what sounds right. Also, hearing kids get so much more exposure to correct English grammar structure by hearing it. Hearing kids have had correct grammar enforced hundreds of thousands of times before they reach kindergarten. A deaf child may not have been exposed to any sentence they've understood when they enter school. I'm not saying deaf people can't learn English as a primary or second language, they just definitely start at a disadvantage.

diehardbiker

EXACTLY! that is what I am trying to explain... Educator should have recongize ASL as a language, period! Then teach deaf young ASL first, so that they can understand their native language, then it would help them understand English because they will be able to recongize the difference between ASL and English. Its very common that deaf people just confused between English and ASL. They are NOT the same thing. Its just A language, nothing more, nothing less.

FutureGame2100

Yes, it requirement all the teachers if who wants to teach those kids how to use a English. A teacher can read the book, then a teacher can use an brief summary for use ASL.