Kids Turned Away From Church.... - Page 4

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I'm simply pointing out that other major religions like Islam do not change any single word in their holy books because it would be a blasphemy to reword it. To reword it is to redirect it from its original meaning.

Translations aren't "rewording."

Rewording would be to make changes to the original text in the same language.

Quote:

Sounds like quantity over quality.

Not at all. That's why it takes such a long time to get translations into more languages. It's done very carefully.

Quote:

as many people as possible? how unfortunate.... since most people misunderstood it. If there is so many controversy over biblical interpretations on various of issues such as homosexuality, then I question the validity of translation because it's so widely and sadly misunderstood.

Even the people who refer back to the original languages disagree on their meanings. Not all people base meanings in an unbiased way or with the Holy Spirit's guidance. They selectively pick phrases out of context to fit their agendas.

Even since the beginning, the serpent Satan misquoted and misinterpreted God's Word in his temptation of Eve, and she fell for it, even though God spoke directly to her and Adam. Sometimes people hear (or read) what they want they want to, not what it really is.

Quote:

bottom line - it's simply best left to educated.... monks.... and followers....

Monks? That would be rather limiting, and give control to a small group only.

Followers? Yes, that's more accessible. That's what most believers endorse.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Why not both?

that's fine with me especially for those with common sense and intelligence but as for buffoons who believe praying fixes it all and misinterprets the meaning... what a waste.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

To follow your line of augment would mean that both The Book of Mormon and the Quran are filled with errors since both have their foundation from the Old and New Testaments.

um... if you were to follow my line of argument.... then this is what you should have said - New Testament is full of errors.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Translations aren't "rewording."

Rewording would be to make changes to the original text in the same language.

God is perfect. His verbatim is absolute and perfect. Why change it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Not at all. That's why it takes such a long time to get translations into more languages. It's done very carefully.

yea sounds like quantity over quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Even the people who refer back to the original languages disagree on their meanings. Not all people base meanings in an unbiased way or with the Holy Spirit's guidance. They selectively pick phrases out of context to fit their agendas.

exactly. this is what happens when a man translates the original Bible. what a mess... bloody mess....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Even since the beginning, the serpent Satan misquoted and misinterpreted God's Word in his temptation of Eve, and she fell for it, even though God spoke directly to her and Adam. Sometimes people hear (or read) what they want they want to, not what it really is.

there you go. that's why it's so widely misunderstood. what a waste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Monks? That would be rather limiting, and give control to a small group only.

Followers? Yes, that's more accessible. That's what most believers endorse.

educated followers that is.

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

God is perfect. His verbatim is absolute and perfect. Why change it?

If the translation is faithful to the original source, then that isn't changing it.

God doesn't want to limit the reading of His Word to only those who can read Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

Quote:

yea sounds like quantity over quality.

It sounds more like you are ignoring what I posted. That's not at all what I said.

Quote:

exactly. this is what happens when a man translates the original Bible. what a mess... bloody mess....

It's not always the translation. It's the misuse of the Bible to intentionally fit personal and political agendas.

Quote:

there you go. that's why it's so widely misunderstood. what a waste.

When God's Word is used intentionally to mislead it's more than a waste. It's a disaster.

Quote:

educated followers that is.

If they are educated by the Holy Spirit, then there's none better.

**Beowulf** · 02-22-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

If the translation is faithful to the original source, then that isn't changing it.

God doesn't want to limit the reading of His Word to only those who can read Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

It sounds more like you are ignoring what I posted. That's not at all what I said.

It's not always the translation. It's the misuse of the Bible to intentionally fit personal and political agendas.

When God's Word is used intentionally to mislead it's more than a waste. It's a disaster.

If they are educated by the Holy Spirit, then there's none better.

If the translation isn't faithful to its original souce, then it is lost in the process. It has been translated several times. If today's scholars cannot agree what the original language was used, something is screwy.
What you believe is fine with me and most of us in here, I am sure. Faith is irrational but I am a fan of irrationality.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

If the translation is faithful to the original source, then that isn't changing it.

God doesn't want to limit the reading of His Word to only those who can read Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

says who? a man?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It sounds more like you are ignoring what I posted. That's not at all what I said.

Yes I know it's not what you said and I'm simply telling you what I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It's not always the translation. It's the misuse of the Bible to intentionally fit personal and political agendas.

yes that typically happens when one translates a true meaning into something else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

When God's Word is used intentionally to mislead it's more than a waste. It's a disaster.

If they are educated by the Holy Spirit, then there's none better.

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

If the translation isn't faithful to its original souce, then it is lost in the process. It has been translated several times....

Some have been.

The best translations go back to the sources and make their translations from those rather than translating translations.

**TWA** · 02-22-2012, 04:26 PM

Actually, much of the Bible was oral tradition for years before it was ever written down. We all know how well that goes.

Moses: "Hey,Aaron, so I set this bush on fire by accident when I was cooking up the falafel yesterday, and I had this really good insight as I was trying to put it out. We should probably get the heck out of Egypt!"

Later . . .

THERE WAS A BURNING BUSH! AND IT WAS TALKING TO MOSES! AND GOD SPOKE TO HIM AND TOLD HIM TO LEAD THE ISRAELITES! AND . . . ! AND . . . !!!!!!

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Actually, much of the Bible was oral tradition for years before it was ever written down. We all know how well that goes.

Moses: "Hey,Aaron, so I set this bush on fire by accident when I was cooking up the falafel yesterday, and I had this really good insight as I was trying to put it out. We should probably get the heck out of Egypt!"

Later . . .

THERE WAS A BURNING BUSH! AND IT WAS TALKING TO MOSES! AND GOD SPOKE TO HIM AND TOLD HIM TO LEAD THE ISRAELITES! AND . . . ! AND . . . !!!!!!

Well, at least you got the second part right!

One out of two is better than none!

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

God is perfect. His verbatim is absolute and perfect. Why change it?

yea sounds like quantity over quality.

exactly. this is what happens when a man translates the original Bible. what a mess... bloody mess....

there you go. that's why it's so widely misunderstood. what a waste.

educated followers that is.

Your odds are not as good! You got the first statement correct. God is perfect! One out of five aint so great!

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

what? you should know that "original" means original. just because a person translated old Spanish folklore into English doesn't mean it's exactly same. The meaning and essence are lost in translation.

If Quran was originally written in Arabic language, then a follower/scholar should learn Arabic language to read the original religious text because it's the true verbatim of God.

For starters the Bible isn't old Spanish folklore! And more importantly according to the way you think and speak if you find a Quran in English or any other language besides Arabic then it has been translated. And also according to you not the original and it cannot be trusted!

**TWA** · 02-22-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

For starters the Bible isn't old Spanish folklore! And more importantly according to the way you think and speak if you find a Quran in English or any other language besides Arabic then it has been translated. And also according to you not the original and it cannot be trusted!

Hey Airportcop, did you know the Quran is made, in part, of the Old Testament? Meaning, a lot of the Quran's original language is not even Arabic; it's the same language as the Old Testament's.

quite the conundrum we have here. Yes, quite the conundrum.

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

Hey Airportcop, did you know the Quran is made, in part, of the Old Testament? Meaning, a lot of the Quran's original language is not even Arabic; it's the same language as the Old Testament's.

quite the conundrum we have here. Yes, quite the conundrum.

That doesn't make it true and accurate. I don't read the Quran either. I'm not Muslim!

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 08:33 PM

*groan*
*pop some TUMS and drinking Peptide*

thank you for reinforcing stereotypical image of religious simpleton. derp.

rolling7 · 02-22-2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

um... if you were to follow my line of argument.... then this is what you should have said - New Testament is full of errors.

Ok, if you wish to say that then because the foundation of the Quran is based on the New Treatment and you say the N.T.is full of errors it follows that the Quran is also full of errors.

Look at it this way both the ORIGINALS of the O.T., most of the N.T. and Quran do not exist. So there is no possible way to say what they originally said. Nor is it possible to say that what we read today is faithful 100% to the originals. So the points are invalid.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Ok, if you wish to say that then because the foundation of the Quran is maxed on the New Treatment and you say the N.T.is full of errors it follows that the Quran is also full of errors.

Look at it this way both the ORIGINALS of the O.T., most of the N.T. and Quran do not exist. So there is no possible way to say what they originally said. Nor is out possible to say that what we read today is faithful 100% to the originals. So the points are invalid.

yes the points are invalid because you have made dozens of erroneous narratives. try again. you can do it! convince me that there's some hope in humanity.

rolling7 · 02-22-2012, 09:02 PM

There is not any because we all die someday. What happens after death is up to you and every individual.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

There is not any because we all die someday. What happens after death is up to you and ever individual.

typical. rolling out of this thread so soon when logic defies you?

DeafCaroline · 02-22-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

That doesn't make it true and accurate. I don't read the Quran either. I'm not Muslim!

You do know Christianity, Judaism and Islam all inherited and share Abrahamic religious roots, as outlined in the Old Testament? They all believe in Abraham and Moses, they all believe in Paradise (Heaven) after death, they all espouse the same values as described in the Old Testament, from honouring thy mother and father to avoiding eating pork and alcohol, well, not the Christians, who also differ in that they believe in the Holy Trinity, Islam and Judaism only believe in one God. Christians also differ in that they practice idolatry.

Point is, they all share the same religious heritage from Abraham.

You have way more in common with Jews and Moslems than you think. Especially if you are a Christian.

**TWA** · 02-22-2012, 09:46 PM

Deerrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppppp

**Beowulf** · 02-22-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

You do know Christianity, Judaism and Islam all inherited and share Abrahamic religious roots, as outlined in the Old Testament? They all believe in Abraham and Moses, they all believe in Paradise (Heaven) after death, they all espouse the same values as described in the Old Testament, from honouring thy mother and father to avoiding eating pork and alcohol, well, not the Christians, who also differ in that they believe in the Holy Trinity, Islam and Judaism only believe in one God. Christians also differ in that they practice idolatry.

Point is, they all share the same religious heritage from Abraham.

You have way more in common with Jews and Moslems than you think. Especially if you are a Christian.

Sounds like you are speaking of Gilgamesh, among other things. Yep.

**Beowulf** · 02-22-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Some have been.

The best translations go back to the sources and make their translations from those rather than translating translations.

They had time travel???

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

You do know Christianity, Judaism and Islam all inherited and share Abrahamic religious roots, as outlined in the Old Testament? They all believe in Abraham and Moses, they all believe in Paradise (Heaven) after death, they all espouse the same values as described in the Old Testament, from honouring thy mother and father to avoiding eating pork and alcohol, well, not the Christians, who also differ in that they believe in the Holy Trinity, Islam and Judaism only believe in one God. Christians also differ in that they practice idolatry.

Point is, they all share the same religious heritage from Abraham.

You have way more in common with Jews and Moslems than you think. Especially if you are a Christian.

I'm not going to comment on Judaism or Islam because I don't belong to those religions.

However, I am a Christian so I'm entitled to speak about Christianity.

I'm not sure what you mean by "believe in" Abraham and Moses. I believe what the Bible says about them. I don't believe in them the way I believe in Jesus.

The Trinity is one God. The Trinity is One.

As a Christian, I don't practice idolatry.

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

They had time travel???

The source languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

**Beowulf** · 02-22-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

The source languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

Yeah, sure. Whatever you want to believe is fine, I say.

**Beowulf** · 02-22-2012, 10:18 PM

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 KJV - If a man have a stubborn and rebellious - Bible Gateway

Maybe that's why they kept the children away?

Anij · 02-22-2012, 11:04 PM

Gosh, as a Theology and Sem. student, I just don't even know where to start with various comments on this thread.

YIKES

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 11:40 PM

deeeeeeeerp

airportcop · 02-23-2012, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

You do know Christianity, Judaism and Islam all inherited and share Abrahamic religious roots, as outlined in the Old Testament? They all believe in Abraham and Moses, they all believe in Paradise (Heaven) after death, they all espouse the same values as described in the Old Testament, from honouring thy mother and father to avoiding eating pork and alcohol, well, not the Christians, who also differ in that they believe in the Holy Trinity, Islam and Judaism only believe in one God. Christians also differ in that they practice idolatry.

Point is, they all share the same religious heritage from Abraham.

You have way more in common with Jews and Moslems than you think. Especially if you are a Christian.

Can you explain what you mean by Christians practicing idolatry? Idolatry is a sin so therefore based on that alone most Christians would not practice idolatry. Some fall in to sin due to idolatry but most certainly do not practice idolatry! Christians also only believe in one God!

02-22-2012, 08:33 PM	#105 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,423	groan pop some TUMS and drinking Peptide thank you for reinforcing stereotypical image of religious simpleton. derp. TWA likes this. __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

02-22-2012, 10:18 PM	#117 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,514	Deuteronomy 21:18-21 KJV - If a man have a stubborn and rebellious - Bible Gateway Maybe that's why they kept the children away? __________________ .

02-22-2012, 11:04 PM	#118 (permalink)
Anij Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,087	Gosh, as a Theology and Sem. student, I just don't even know where to start with various comments on this thread. YIKES Berry likes this. __________________ Hoh/Deaf ~ +120db deaf right , mild/mod flux left & APD English & ASL ...PAH!! Ignorance is NOT Bliss

02-22-2012, 11:40 PM	#119 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,423	deeeeeeeerp __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

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02-22-2012, 04:26 PM	#99 (permalink)
TWA Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,374	Actually, much of the Bible was oral tradition for years before it was ever written down. We all know how well that goes. Moses: "Hey,Aaron, so I set this bush on fire by accident when I was cooking up the falafel yesterday, and I had this really good insight as I was trying to put it out. We should probably get the heck out of Egypt!" Later . . . THERE WAS A BURNING BUSH! AND IT WAS TALKING TO MOSES! AND GOD SPOKE TO HIM AND TOLD HIM TO LEAD THE ISRAELITES! AND . . . ! AND . . . !!!!!!

02-22-2012, 09:02 PM	#108 (permalink)
rolling7 Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,340	There is not any because we all die someday. What happens after death is up to you and every individual.

02-22-2012, 09:46 PM	#111 (permalink)
TWA Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,374	Deerrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppppp