Kids Turned Away From Church.... - Page 3

**Beowulf** · 02-21-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

He gave His life for us and paid our price once and for all. But He paid no one as Reba has said. He was a supreme sacrifice. He died so we wouldn't have to eternally. Like a soldier who goes to war for his country and dies or a policeman who takes a bullet but saves a life or a fireman who dies after saving a life. Does that make it clearer? If you have more questions please feel free to PM me or Reba and we would be glad to speak about it at length. Seriously.

Have you read the original Bible, or the one translated several times?
I don't think the present one comes even close to the original.

**TWA** · 02-21-2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

He gave His life for us and paid our price once and for all. But He paid no one as Reba has said. He was a supreme sacrifice. He died so we wouldn't have to eternally. Like a soldier who goes to war for his country and dies or a policeman who takes a bullet but saves a life or a fireman who dies after saving a life. Does that make it clearer? If you have more questions please feel free to PM me or Reba and we would be glad to speak about it at length. Seriously.

No, he didn't. And, no thanks.

ki4jgt · 02-21-2012, 10:52 PM

OK, I've read all these responses to this thread (past my own) and have decided to post what I know (or what I think I know). Before I get started let me restate that I am Agnostic. I have NO preference to dis/belief in God.

From a theistic standpoint, the only person who is capable of knowing whether the pastor has really changed is God himself. I KNOW what modern psychology says and I KNOW what my own personal experience in life has taught me. My experience has taught me that psychology, though capable and advanced in this day and age, is still VERY fallable. When you can go to a different psychologist and get a different answer for any problem you may have, then something is off. When people who have a doctorate in a psychology field tell you that they only know 1 % of the human mind (with all they do know) and they're trying to fix the mind as a whole with 1% knowledge of it, something is WAY off. When someone can't see a psychologist because they can't afford it (and there are no local clinics) something is wrong. When psychologists will tell you that the reason they MUST charge this money, is so you WILL follow their advice, and then they legally CANNOT get into trouble for it (if it turns out to be wrong) b/c the legal system says it is JUST advice, something is wrong. When someone can go into a psychologists office with a problem, reluctant to tell the psychologist about said problem and then be told they have been lying to themselves their entire lives (which sends them into a depression) something is TOTALLY wrong. When society as a whole starts not to care for each other's problems and tells people with problems that the only hope they have is to see someone like this, there is a problem. Don't get me wrong LOL. I DO support psychology and psychiatry. I just do not support the idea that people should look to these individuals (with nothing more than a piece of paper that says they know 1% of the human brain) and call them experts. I believe there are good psychologists and there are VERY bad ones. One of my most hated phrases coined by some of them though is "once a ____, always a ____."
Onto my experience in life, I have a VERY close friend who was touched by an authority figure when they were younger. They took a ballbat, knocked him over the head and told him if he ever did it again to ANYONE they would make his life a living HELL. He never did. That person brought their children to see him. They talked with him (all the time) and everything. Were they stupid enough to leave their children with him? NO. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a soul. It just means that he made bad choices. He should have to pay COMPLETELY for those choices (being legally required to stay away from children) Those choices could've stayed in his head for the rest of his life or they couldn't have. No one knows. In a majority of the cases, the answer would be yes. The person would dwell on the past, convince themselves that they were evil and then feed off of that evilness. But personally, I do believe that there are RARE, RARE, RARE cases where an individual can do a complete 360. We are not to judge someone for that (as Christians anyways) but as parents, we're not to be absolute retards either.

You see, this is why I like Christ. I don't like modern churches, but I DO like Christ. Christ teaches that the only way to get to Heaven is true repentence. It's not a "Oh, I'm sorry" and then the person turns around and does it again. That's why I get onto Atheists when they say "all Christians have to do is say "I'm sorry" and they get to go to Heaven." Christ himself dispells this belief. If that preacher doesn't have a complete turn around, he is still going to Hell. If he doesn't have a complete turn around and if the congregation does not keep their eyes open and keep from following every whim that man says, and they don't question that man's integrity more (it doesn't sound like they have) they'll go with him. They chose to sit under him. They chose to follow his words.

Though I am Agnostic, I KNOW, for a fact that people do change. The Christian faith has this one right. That's why I said God only knows, but if you pay attention to the situations and don't just lollygag around, don't point your finger at every little whim or witch hunt either you can usually see them when they are about to make another mistake and catch them.

Would I sit under this preacher? NO, for one, he twisted God around to say that God himself said that he could do it. To me, that says he didn't feel any remorse while doing what he did. He instead justified it. That would mean he had a God complex where he believed he was infallable. He may feel remorse for this now. I would listen to his stories about life. Lord knows how he got to where he is/was but I would have a hard time sitting under him while he preached. I would have to be convinced (anything short from an angel coming down from Heaven and saying he had changed wouldn't be enough).

Anyway, onto Jesus and God. God is supposed to be an absolute truth in the universe. God can't violate himself because if I say the color red is purple. That cannot be God. Being truth, he notices that things of value are being wasted. Things which could potentially bring out more truth. This part of him is love. This part of him (a clone of him if you will, there cannot be two absolute truths) was clothed in human flesh. It literally sacrificed itself for humanity (in the Christian faith). Basically, since truth can't violate itself, then sin can't really be erased. It can only be paid for. If I sleep with another women (besides my wife) it is truth that I did something bad and I LIED to my wife about it. The only thing strong enough to cover the truth is LOVE. Kind of like my friend. Her love for her abuser has covered his crimes against her. She's still not stupid enough to leave her children with him but her love has paid for the crimes he commited against her. In the old days, this innocence of love was a lamb. The problem was, the lamb was wasted. It was unavailable in some cases and it wasn't pure enough in others (for the person sacrificing it). The person couldn't get past their crimes because they had a perfect God getting an imperfect sacrifice. Therefore, logically the only way to allow people to feel comfortable was for love itself (absolute perfection) to be the offering. God's clone/son/God himself (as there is only one absolute truth) sacrificed itself to appease the loss of valuable tools which could be used for the persuit of truth. Jesus' blood DOES NOT erase your sins. It only COVERS them. Jesus said himself. I AM NOT HERE TO CONDEMN YOU. I AM HERE TO SAVE YOU. Jesus was the check and balance to God (They both formed God as a whole, plus the holy spirit). Wow, now I'm watching TV and getting back to my class LOL.

**Jiro** · 02-21-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Have you read the original Bible, or the one translated several times?
I don't think the present one comes even close to the original.

exactly my thought.

if Bible can be rewritten by a man like Old Testament --> New Testament and some.... well that sounds like a blasphemy to me. and look at Quran... it is original and unedited.

Arlene575 · 02-22-2012, 01:50 AM

I think about hard labor camp will be suitable for sex offenders until they are completely tame.

JanatheShort · 02-22-2012, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

exactly my thought.

if Bible can be rewritten by a man like Old Testament --> New Testament and some.... well that sounds like a blasphemy to me. and look at Quran... it is original and unedited.

Yes, but unless we can speak classical Arabic, we can't read the Quran in it's original and unedited form.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JanatheShort

Yes, but unless we can speak classical Arabic, we can't read the Quran in it's original and unedited form.

why bother since you're not a Muslim?

Steel X · 02-22-2012, 09:19 AM

They ban kids at the church yet they allow a sex offender to be in the church? This is totally messed up...it's like punishing the kids over something they didn't do!

Steel X · 02-22-2012, 09:28 AM

It's true that we are all sinners but the point here is using common sense and knowing the difference between right and wrong. I believe he knows what he did is wrong, yet he do it anyway.

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Have you read the original Bible, or the one translated several times?
I don't think the present one comes even close to the original.

I don't read Greek or Hebrew so that would be quite difficult wouldn't it! The original texts were in Greek & Hebrew! Have you read them?

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

exactly my thought.

if Bible can be rewritten by a man like Old Testament --> New Testament and some.... well that sounds like a blasphemy to me. and look at Quran... it is original and unedited.

Which means that unless you read Arabic it has been translated by a man into English! Therefore according to you not original!

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

No, he didn't. And, no thanks.

Easy for you to say!

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

Which means that unless you read Arabic it has been translated by a man into English! Therefore according to you not original!

what? you should know that "original" means original. just because a person translated old Spanish folklore into English doesn't mean it's exactly same. The meaning and essence are lost in translation.

If Quran was originally written in Arabic language, then a follower/scholar should learn Arabic language to read the original religious text because it's the true verbatim of God.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

I don't read Greek or Hebrew so that would be quite difficult wouldn't it! The original texts were in Greek & Hebrew! Have you read them?

the original was written in Hebrew language.

I find it hilariously comical when one defends Bible and not know the original text.

**TXgolfer** · 02-22-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

the original was written in Hebrew language.

I find it hilariously comical when one defends Bible and not know the original text.

The New Test was written in Greek.....

Some of the Old Test was written in Aramaic

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

The New Test was written in Greek.....

but it's not Bible's original language.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Some of the Old Test was written in Aramaic

yea... like a few chapters while entire thing was written in Hebrew

**TXgolfer** · 02-22-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

but it's not Bible's original language.

Yes the ORIGINAL language of the New Testament was in fact GREEK.

**TXgolfer** · 02-22-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

yea... like a few chapters while entire thing was written in Hebrew

Even if only ONE chapter was written in Aramaic that would make it impossible for the "entire thing" to be written in Hebrew.

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Even if only ONE chapter was written in Aramaic that would make it impossible for the "entire thing" to be written in Hebrew.

ok *pat on your back*

you don't have to try so hard. just FYI - it's silly to engage in intellectual debate if your only defense is quibbling on little things. just to satisfy you - I'll reword it: "yea... like a few chapters while most of it was written in Hebrew"

**TXgolfer** · 02-22-2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

ok *pat on your back*

you don't have to try so hard. just FYI - it's silly to engage in intellectual debate if your only defense is quibbling on little things. just to satisfy you
- I'll reword it: "yea... like a few chapters while most of it was written in Hebrew"

Yeah and that is just the Old Testament..... But, then there's the New Testament. Notice AirportCop said "original texts"

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

ok *pat on your back*

you don't have to try so hard. just FYI - it's silly to engage in intellectual debate if your only defense is quibbling on little things. just to satisfy you - I'll reword it: "yea... like a few chapters while most of it was written in Hebrew"

He's not quibbling on a little thing. He's being accurate. You're the one that made a big deal about reading the original texts, yet you don't know what those original texts were.

God used languages that were common when He dictated the original text. Why? Because He wanted as many people as possible to have access to them.

For that same reason, He doesn't limit His Word to those original languages. He wants His Word translated (carefully, scholarly, and prayerfully) with Holy Spirit guidance into as many languages and dialects possible, so that it may be spread to as many people as possible.

God doesn't want His Word kept from people or restricted. It's not just for a select few people. It's for everyone.

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 01:56 PM

P.s.

If you want to really get picky, there are also some transliterated Aramaic phrases in the Greek New Testament.

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

what? you should know that "original" means original. just because a person translated old Spanish folklore into English doesn't mean it's exactly same. The meaning and essence are lost in translation.

If Quran was originally written in Arabic language, then a follower/scholar should learn Arabic language to read the original religious text because it's the true verbatim of God.

So are you saying that a man should have to learn to read the original language to know what it really means? Nonsense! It was never intended that way. God confused the languages of the people at that time on purpose but He also wants His word to be read and known by all mankind which means that it must be translated into additional languages to be understood. Thus translations can be and generally are accurate if done by studied experts on the language. So therefore if it's translated it can "STILL" be the true word of God.

airportcop · 02-22-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

the original was written in Hebrew language.

I find it hilariously comical when one defends Bible and not know the original text.

I find it sad when one comments on something they think they know but do not! Embarassing in fact! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt!

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

He's not quibbling on a little thing. He's being accurate. You're the one that made a big deal about reading the original texts, yet you don't know what those original texts were.

I'm simply pointing out that other major religions like Islam do not change any single word in their holy books because it would be a blasphemy to reword it. To reword it is to redirect it from its original meaning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

God used languages that were common when He dictated the original text. Why? Because He wanted as many people as possible to have access to them.

Sounds like quantity over quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

For that same reason, He doesn't limit His Word to those original languages. He wants His Word translated (carefully, scholarly, and prayerfully) with Holy Spirit guidance into as many languages and dialects possible, so that it may be spread to as many people as possible.

God doesn't want His Word kept from people or restricted. It's not just for a select few people. It's for everyone.

as many people as possible? how unfortunate.... since most people misunderstood it. If there is so many controversy over biblical interpretations on various of issues such as homosexuality, then I question the validity of translation because it's so widely and sadly misunderstood.

bottom line - it's simply best left to educated.... monks.... and followers....

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

So are you saying that a man should have to learn to read the original language to know what it really means? Nonsense! It was never intended that way. God confused the languages of the people at that time on purpose but He also wants His word to be read and known by all mankind which means that it must be translated into additional languages to be understood. Thus translations can be and generally are accurate if done by studied experts on the language. So therefore if it's translated it can "STILL" be the true word of God.

says who? a man?

**Jiro** · 02-22-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

I find it sad when one comments on something they think they know but do not! Embarassing in fact! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt!

ah yes... yes... and my tshirt says

rolling7 · 02-22-2012, 02:33 PM

To follow your line of augment would mean that both The Book of Mormon and the Quran are filled with errors since both have their foundation from the Old and New Testaments.

**Reba** · 02-22-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

ah yes... yes... and my tshirt says

Why not both?

**TXgolfer** · 02-22-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Why not both?

That would be "Best"

02-21-2012, 10:52 PM	#63 (permalink)
ki4jgt Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 136	OK, I've read all these responses to this thread (past my own) and have decided to post what I know (or what I think I know). Before I get started let me restate that I am Agnostic. I have NO preference to dis/belief in God. From a theistic standpoint, the only person who is capable of knowing whether the pastor has really changed is God himself. I KNOW what modern psychology says and I KNOW what my own personal experience in life has taught me. My experience has taught me that psychology, though capable and advanced in this day and age, is still VERY fallable. When you can go to a different psychologist and get a different answer for any problem you may have, then something is off. When people who have a doctorate in a psychology field tell you that they only know 1 % of the human mind (with all they do know) and they're trying to fix the mind as a whole with 1% knowledge of it, something is WAY off. When someone can't see a psychologist because they can't afford it (and there are no local clinics) something is wrong. When psychologists will tell you that the reason they MUST charge this money, is so you WILL follow their advice, and then they legally CANNOT get into trouble for it (if it turns out to be wrong) b/c the legal system says it is JUST advice, something is wrong. When someone can go into a psychologists office with a problem, reluctant to tell the psychologist about said problem and then be told they have been lying to themselves their entire lives (which sends them into a depression) something is TOTALLY wrong. When society as a whole starts not to care for each other's problems and tells people with problems that the only hope they have is to see someone like this, there is a problem. Don't get me wrong LOL. I DO support psychology and psychiatry. I just do not support the idea that people should look to these individuals (with nothing more than a piece of paper that says they know 1% of the human brain) and call them experts. I believe there are good psychologists and there are VERY bad ones. One of my most hated phrases coined by some of them though is "once a ____, always a ____." Onto my experience in life, I have a VERY close friend who was touched by an authority figure when they were younger. They took a ballbat, knocked him over the head and told him if he ever did it again to ANYONE they would make his life a living HELL. He never did. That person brought their children to see him. They talked with him (all the time) and everything. Were they stupid enough to leave their children with him? NO. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a soul. It just means that he made bad choices. He should have to pay COMPLETELY for those choices (being legally required to stay away from children) Those choices could've stayed in his head for the rest of his life or they couldn't have. No one knows. In a majority of the cases, the answer would be yes. The person would dwell on the past, convince themselves that they were evil and then feed off of that evilness. But personally, I do believe that there are RARE, RARE, RARE cases where an individual can do a complete 360. We are not to judge someone for that (as Christians anyways) but as parents, we're not to be absolute retards either. You see, this is why I like Christ. I don't like modern churches, but I DO like Christ. Christ teaches that the only way to get to Heaven is true repentence. It's not a "Oh, I'm sorry" and then the person turns around and does it again. That's why I get onto Atheists when they say "all Christians have to do is say "I'm sorry" and they get to go to Heaven." Christ himself dispells this belief. If that preacher doesn't have a complete turn around, he is still going to Hell. If he doesn't have a complete turn around and if the congregation does not keep their eyes open and keep from following every whim that man says, and they don't question that man's integrity more (it doesn't sound like they have) they'll go with him. They chose to sit under him. They chose to follow his words. Though I am Agnostic, I KNOW, for a fact that people do change. The Christian faith has this one right. That's why I said God only knows, but if you pay attention to the situations and don't just lollygag around, don't point your finger at every little whim or witch hunt either you can usually see them when they are about to make another mistake and catch them. Would I sit under this preacher? NO, for one, he twisted God around to say that God himself said that he could do it. To me, that says he didn't feel any remorse while doing what he did. He instead justified it. That would mean he had a God complex where he believed he was infallable. He may feel remorse for this now. I would listen to his stories about life. Lord knows how he got to where he is/was but I would have a hard time sitting under him while he preached. I would have to be convinced (anything short from an angel coming down from Heaven and saying he had changed wouldn't be enough). Anyway, onto Jesus and God. God is supposed to be an absolute truth in the universe. God can't violate himself because if I say the color red is purple. That cannot be God. Being truth, he notices that things of value are being wasted. Things which could potentially bring out more truth. This part of him is love. This part of him (a clone of him if you will, there cannot be two absolute truths) was clothed in human flesh. It literally sacrificed itself for humanity (in the Christian faith). Basically, since truth can't violate itself, then sin can't really be erased. It can only be paid for. If I sleep with another women (besides my wife) it is truth that I did something bad and I LIED to my wife about it. The only thing strong enough to cover the truth is LOVE. Kind of like my friend. Her love for her abuser has covered his crimes against her. She's still not stupid enough to leave her children with him but her love has paid for the crimes he commited against her. In the old days, this innocence of love was a lamb. The problem was, the lamb was wasted. It was unavailable in some cases and it wasn't pure enough in others (for the person sacrificing it). The person couldn't get past their crimes because they had a perfect God getting an imperfect sacrifice. Therefore, logically the only way to allow people to feel comfortable was for love itself (absolute perfection) to be the offering. God's clone/son/God himself (as there is only one absolute truth) sacrificed itself to appease the loss of valuable tools which could be used for the persuit of truth. Jesus' blood DOES NOT erase your sins. It only COVERS them. Jesus said himself. I AM NOT HERE TO CONDEMN YOU. I AM HERE TO SAVE YOU. Jesus was the check and balance to God (They both formed God as a whole, plus the holy spirit). Wow, now I'm watching TV and getting back to my class LOL. __________________ I say what I feel and feel what I say. Don't take it personally, it's just my way of being completely honest with myself and those around me. It has nothing to do with you as an individual.

02-22-2012, 09:19 AM	#68 (permalink)
Steel X Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Carolinas/Rochester, NY. Posts: 13,821	They ban kids at the church yet they allow a sex offender to be in the church? This is totally messed up...it's like punishing the kids over something they didn't do! airportcop likes this. __________________

02-22-2012, 09:28 AM	#69 (permalink)
Steel X Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Carolinas/Rochester, NY. Posts: 13,821	It's true that we are all sinners but the point here is using common sense and knowing the difference between right and wrong. I believe he knows what he did is wrong, yet he do it anyway. rockin'robin and airportcop like this. __________________

02-22-2012, 01:56 PM	#82 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,108	P.s. If you want to really get picky, there are also some transliterated Aramaic phrases in the Greek New Testament. airportcop likes this.

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02-22-2012, 01:50 AM	#65 (permalink)
Arlene575 Banned Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 5	I think about hard labor camp will be suitable for sex offenders until they are completely tame.

02-22-2012, 02:33 PM	#88 (permalink)
rolling7 Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,340	To follow your line of augment would mean that both The Book of Mormon and the Quran are filled with errors since both have their foundation from the Old and New Testaments.