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Unread 02-21-2012, 09:31 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockin'robin View Post
I know very little about Religion, and I'm not a very religious person. But I do know right from wrong. Would I approve of a man who is the Church's Pastor, or ANY man for that matter, texting underage girls explict messages in Church, even touching the girls inappropriatly, and telling the girls that God approves of it?

Some things are forgivable, but something like this? Would anybody else "approve" of it, even allow it with their underage child? I don't think so. This man who calls himself a Preacher, is just a child predator.

And to allow this man back into another Church to preach, and ban the children from attending?...The children did nothing wrong!
I agree. TO AN EXTENT. Forgiveness is open to EVERYONE. HOWEVER, because of the "pastor's" past, I believe he should be limited to adults ONLY while in the pulpit (to any adults dumb enough to follow him). I also believe he needs a coplete psychological examination and should have to see a therapist regularly. I DON"T support the idea of giving him another chance with children but I don't support the idea of absolute banishment either. People can turn their lives around from the worst kinds of monstrosity. Placing more children there though would be like saying "I'm going on a diet" and then filling your house with cup cakes. So, my question of course is, how do you know whether or not he is a changed man or just trying to get at the kids again?
You have to trust God on this one and not add wood to the fire. About the children, if the adults are dumb enough to want to remove all the children, let them. It's their church and if they want to listen to a man with that past it is their business. Their church will die out because there's no one to carry it on.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 09:50 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ki4jgt View Post
I agree. TO AN EXTENT. Forgiveness is open to EVERYONE. HOWEVER, because of the "pastor's" past, I believe he should be limited to adults ONLY while in the pulpit (to any adults dumb enough to follow him). I also believe he needs a coplete psychological examination and should have to see a therapist regularly. I DON"T support the idea of giving him another chance with children but I don't support the idea of absolute banishment either. People can turn their lives around from the worst kinds of monstrosity. Placing more children there though would be like saying "I'm going on a diet" and then filling your house with cup cakes. So, my question of course is, how do you know whether or not he is a changed man or just trying to get at the kids again?
You have to trust God on this one and not add wood to the fire. About the children, if the adults are dumb enough to want to remove all the children, let them. It's their church and if they want to listen to a man with that past it is their business. Their church will die out because there's no one to carry it on.
The answer is to ur question, we don't "absolutely know" if he's a changed man or not. And I would not chance it with my child, or any child...in Church or out of Church.

You hear of so many prisoners in prison, proclaiming they have found God, getting relased early, and going right back to what they did before. And child predators are like that. Very sick/slick/con artists individuals.

I don't trust God on this one (as you said)....I trust my own sense of reality and knowing child predators/offenders will repeat again and again.

We as parents, are expected to protect our children from people such as this. And if we fail?....The guilt is enormous.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 12:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Which is why the children were turned away from the church.
Which is wrong!
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Unread 02-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Which is wrong!
That's just your opinion. There are plenty of churches out there. If you don't like the way things work at a particular church, nobody's stopping you from going to a different church.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 12:15 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Who had to be paid in blood?
Jesus paid with His life and blood.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 12:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
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That's just your opinion. There are plenty of churches out there. If you don't like the way things work at a particular church, nobody's stopping you from going to a different church.
And nobody is stopping him from going to a church that no children attend either!
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Unread 02-21-2012, 12:27 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Jesus paid with His life and blood.
Paid who?
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Unread 02-21-2012, 12:39 PM   #38 (permalink)
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My thought? This man was a pastor and used that position in order to hurt children. Regardless of whether he claims he was "changed" or not, or whether he has repented or not... I just can't see him being in that position again. And what kind of church kicks the kids out of the church so the child molester with the criminal record could be pastor?!
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Unread 02-21-2012, 12:46 PM   #39 (permalink)
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And nobody is stopping him from going to a church that no children attend either!
The church already agreed to ban the children since the registered sex offender is not allowed to be around children. The church wasn't forced to do it.

So what's the problem?
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:03 PM   #40 (permalink)
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The church already agreed to ban the children since the registered sex offender is not allowed to be around children. The church wasn't forced to do it.

So what's the problem?
That church has a problem! They will have to answer to God for this one!
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:05 PM   #41 (permalink)
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That church has a problem! They will have to answer to God for this one!
That's not my concern, nor yours as well. Let them worry about the consequences.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:07 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Paid who?
Paid for ALL of OUR sin debt. He paid with His life for you and me. His sacrifice made it possible for the forgiveness of sin for all mankind if we accept it. The wages of sin are death. But the free gift of God is eternal life through belief in Jesus as the Son. I will be willing to talk more about it in a PM. Probably already crossed the line on AD. I don't wish to offend.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:16 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Who had to be paid in blood?
No one.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:21 PM   #44 (permalink)
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No one.
So why pay it in the first place if there's no one to pay?
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:30 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Paid for ALL of OUR sin debt. He paid with His life for you and me. His sacrifice made it possible for the forgiveness of sin for all mankind if we accept it. The wages of sin are death. But the free gift of God is eternal life through belief in Jesus as the Son. I will be willing to talk more about it in a PM. Probably already crossed the line on AD. I don't wish to offend.
yes, who did Jesus pay? YOu keep saying he paid with his life, yes, we know but who did he pay? the devil?
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:38 PM   #46 (permalink)
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There are all sort of chruches. If the members do not like that one, they could simply go to a church of their liking.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 02:37 PM   #47 (permalink)
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So, what qualifies one to be redeemed of such crimes (to the point of being a preacher).
Redemption has to do with one's spiritual position. It doesn't guarantee anyone a job.

The Bible provides the qualifications of church pastor.

I Timothy 3

1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

and:

Titus 1

4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. 5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Quote:
If Jesus said you will be hated by the world, and the world knows me not, how does the world know what is best for the church?
The world does not know what is best for the church. However, that doesn't mean the world will refrain from giving its opinion of the church.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 02:43 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Paid who?
No one.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 03:00 PM   #49 (permalink)
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So why pay it in the first place if there's no one to pay?
Suppose a child is trapped in a burning house. A man goes into the house, is able to throw the child out a window to safety but can't himself escape. He dies in the house fire. He paid with his life to rescue the child. But he didn't pay anyone.

Suppose a child is crossing the street. A car is headed for her but the driver doesn't see her. A woman jumps into the car's pathway and pushes the child to safety. The car hits and kills the woman. She saved the child but she paid with her life. But she didn't pay anyone.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 03:10 PM   #50 (permalink)
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There are all sort of chruches. If the members do not like that one, they could simply go to a church of their liking.
This Church was to their liking, a family Church....and to think that they would let this man preach there, and turn all the children away?....This was a Black Church, and knowing that many children went there with their parents. So you think it's right to let this "one" man go to that Church, and turn away dozens and dozens of children?

This Church is also located in a very poor area, feel sure many members there have no car and walk to Church, (it's downtown), a predomentily Black area.....
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Unread 02-21-2012, 03:11 PM   #51 (permalink)
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simple - go Buddhism

Nirvana here I come.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 03:13 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Suppose a child is trapped in a burning house. A man goes into the house, is able to throw the child out a window to safety but can't himself escape. He dies in the house fire. He paid with his life to rescue the child. But he didn't pay anyone.

Suppose a child is crossing the street. A car is headed for her but the driver doesn't see her. A woman jumps into the car's pathway and pushes the child to safety. The car hits and kills the woman. She saved the child but she paid with her life. But she didn't pay anyone.
Those are irrational acts when you come right down to it. But there is power in irrational thought and actions, so for that I will respectfully listen to you and others, although I do not have all the same beliefs. I hope you understand. You rock!
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Unread 02-21-2012, 03:14 PM   #53 (permalink)
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simple - go Buddhism

Nirvana here I come.
I am already swishing my toes in it.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 03:24 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I think that the very fact that this situation has attracted a lot of negative publicity for the church, and caused division within the congregation, is evidence enough that allowing a pastor with a bad background to serve is a bad idea.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 03:32 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I think that the very fact that this situation has attracted a lot of negative publicity for the church, and caused division within the congregation, is evidence enough that allowing a pastor with a bad background to serve is a bad idea.
Or it could provide the opportunity for the divisions to come together and discuss possible solutions. So it is not all bad.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 04:38 PM   #56 (permalink)
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*banging head on desk*
*banging head on desk*
*banging head on desk*
*banging head on desk*
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Unread 02-21-2012, 04:45 PM   #57 (permalink)
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*banging head on desk*
*banging head on desk*
*banging head on desk*
*banging head on desk*
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Unread 02-21-2012, 06:40 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Unread 02-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #59 (permalink)
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yes, who did Jesus pay? YOu keep saying he paid with his life, yes, we know but who did he pay? the devil?
He gave His life for us and paid our price once and for all. But He paid no one as Reba has said. He was a supreme sacrifice. He died so we wouldn't have to eternally. Like a soldier who goes to war for his country and dies or a policeman who takes a bullet but saves a life or a fireman who dies after saving a life. Does that make it clearer? If you have more questions please feel free to PM me or Reba and we would be glad to speak about it at length. Seriously.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 07:12 PM   #60 (permalink)
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