DeafCaroline

Funny she asked you that when her opinions so far seem even more racist and sexist than the guys'.

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

saywhatkid

Let's debate ciircumcision!

__________________
"We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves." ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

VacationGuy234

I agree.

__________________

TXgolfer

Agree

In the U.S. they pretty much have that. Planned Parenthood offers the pill for as little as $15/mo and it can be cheaper if you have a state program or PP decides to reduce the fee based on income.

It may be beneficial to the nation....but that doesn't necessarily make it right or A right.

__________________
Ps 109:8 let his days be few,and let another take his office -KJV-

TXgolfer

We did that already....

__________________
Ps 109:8 let his days be few,and let another take his office -KJV-

rolling7

Let me help out here a little.

Women (and Men) DO..DO..DO.. have an absolute 100% right to birth control (any method) that they pay for themself and not on someone else dime.
NOTE: if she/he is getting b/c from an insurance plan, that is still paying for it because of the insurance permiums being paid.

Reba

What is the point here? That women can't both be moms and successful in America? That contraception makes women smarter and more assertive? That "women of color" couldn't get politically active without contraception? (The Voting Rights Act of 1965 wouldn't have more to do with that?) What?

DeafCaroline

Reba

That's right.

Reba

Been there, done that. Use the forum search function.

Reba

Why bring up their race at all? Just because someone is white he can't participate?

Reba

Care to back up that statement?

TXgolfer

Interesting new poll. Women are pretty evenly split on the BC mandate.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/im...2/16/rel2g.pdf

__________________
Ps 109:8 let his days be few,and let another take his office -KJV-

Babyblue

So you prefer to use your tax dollars to pay for medicaid, Foodstamps, and other public assistance needs for people that concieves children that wanted access to free birth control.

Journey

I have so many thoughts about the issues and comments on this thread as well as the other related one, I could write for hours. However, the predominant one is this ... I believe the role of government, religion, communities and society in general is to take care of its people. Taking care of all people ensures a stronger, healthier, more productive and stable society. People change, the world changes and the needs of both changes, it is inevitable. When problems arise due to these changes (something is broke), is it not everyone's responsibility to work together to solve them (fix them)? Should we ever deny a solution based on the idea that it somehow infringes on your own personal ideology, at the risk of society's greater health and well-being?

Now, specific to birth control. What is the argument against providing it (forgive my ignorance in this area, I am just not getting it, so help is appreciated)? Money? How much do unwanted pregnancies cost society, financially and emotionally, vs expected costs of BC? Rights? Does it really matter if it is a right to have sex or not - it happens either way? Moral stance? While one may not agree with BC, should they prohibit others from using it or even deny others access to it if it is best for one's health and well-being? Access to BC will increase or encourage 'promiscuity'? History and statistics have proven otherwise. As I said, I am obviously not getting some key element of this argument against providing BC so all constructive help is welcome.

rolling7

Nope, I have long said that if you can not properly care for a child do not bring that child into the world. Men can go to thousands of drug stores (among other places) an buy condoms. Women can get b/c at the same drug stores. Where it comes to cost, you should be prepared to pay for your own. If having sex is so important to you, the cost of b/c has to be accounted for. If anyone has a good head on his/her shoulders they certainly know to use protection and hold themself accountable.
Those that do not take the necessary steps and do have a child they can not support are drainning the rest of us. They want free everything mention in your quote above, with or without a kid. So having a kid makes no difference to them...they still want their "freebies".

DeafCaroline

TXgolfer

Ok, here's what you are missing. At least as far as the U.S. is concerned.

A) Rights- Churches have them. Religion is specifically named in the Bill of Rights unlike birth control. They cannot be forced to pay for or provide something that goes against their beliefs.

B) Cost- We already have low cost birth control. Planned Parenthood, which is subsidized by the federal government provides low cost birth control sometimes it's even free. We also have medicaid, free clinics and state programs for the extremely poor.

C) Politics- Obama could have proposed this as a government plan which would have made more sense since theoretically this will save the government money in the long run. But that could potentially cost him votes especially among women (ironically) and minorities. So Obama chose to put this mandate upon the private sector in order to frame them as the "bad guy". Now instead of facing the music he can deflect and say "look at the way religion/business hates women and many of his followers will fall for that.

__________________
Ps 109:8 let his days be few,and let another take his office -KJV-

KarissaMann05

Anybody should have a right to get BCs or else. I don't think sex does come without consequence. Sounds so impossible, but sex is not a crime or pregnancy is not a punishment, is a matter of cause and effect...

Someone chose to have sex,
Someone chose to or not to use protection,
Someone chose to ignore or to aware the risks and responsibilities that come with having unsafe sex with the drunk person from the bar someone don't even know the name of.
Someone chose to use protection but may or may not ignore the risks and responsibilities.
Go on...

I don't know why people think sex does come without consequence.

rolling7

Let me help you out DC.

I have the right to hearing aids and my insurance does not cover them.
Are you, DC, going to pay ofr them? Tax dollars?

I have a right to hearing aid batteries and my insurance does not cover them.
Are you, DC, going to pay for them? Tax dollars?

I have a right to good healthy teeth and my insurance does not cover them.
Are you, DC, going to pay? Tax dollars?

Don't worry I wont ask you to pay. I worked for over 50 years and planned for the days and I can pay for anything the insurance does not cover. Try to remember for over 50 years all that $$$ I paid in permiums. Why should MY tax dollars be needed to pay for those who take no responsibilities of themself? Remember I started with nothing, just like they did. Only difference is, I never went looking for a handout but pulled myself up by the bootstraps. (no, I'm not patting myself on the back...because..that is what is expected of everyone)

Journey

I think you are missing the millions of people being thought about when considering free BC ... the wives and girlfriends of men who refuse to go buy and wear a condom, the women (young and old) who cannot afford to go to the doctor to obtain prescriptions for BC (for health or contraceptive reasons), the young women who are too embarrassed or afraid (often due to family beliefs) to go to the doctor for prescriptions (for either health or contraceptive reasons), the women whose husbands refuse to get vasectomies ... To say to both women and men, if you can't afford BC, don't have sex or don't have health problems, is narrow-minded and short-sighted to say the least.

DeafCaroline

rolling7

Here on AD we have had this discussion numerous times. And your quote above is spot-on.

The problem is getting to the point of who pays for the consequences. It should not be and can not be you nor me nor out tax dollars. The individuals have to pay for their own consequences 100%.

Journey

Thank you for your feedback , I will mull these things over before I can respond.

DeafCaroline

but they don't. apparently the number one question lawyers get asked by men is how to avoid paying child support.

So much for taking responsibility.

KarissaMann05

No. I am saying that sex is a right but it bother me that people claimed sex is not effect and cause... It is about a choice to have sex. Some BCs should not be so expensive because it actually, seemingly, encourages more unwanted pregnancy, unsafe sexual activity, and etc... If condoms are cheaper, then others should be, IMO.

rolling7

I won't come back and say this is all about excuses because I know people have differences of opinions. Nevertheless, there are proper solutions to each of the cases you have stated above.

First, if a wife/gf of a guy knows he wont take HIS responsibility of B/C then that wife/gf can say: "There is the door...don't let it hit your butt on the way out".

Second, the women who can't afford b/c can always learn about their bodies and know their days to avoid having intercourse. And also they should require their partner to help with the expense of b/c, they are certainly able to say "No, until.."

Afraid due to family beliefs. Well a young lady living at home certainly better follow her parents. But once she is an adult and able to stand on her own two feet, she should head straight to the doctor's office on her own.

A baby is 50% the male and 50% the female but b/c HAS to be 100% for the male and 100% for the female. In otherwords, BOTH have to take whatever action necessary to control their impuses and take responsibility of their actions and be prepared for the consequencies. If no...just say NO.

Narrow-minded and short-sighted!!!! Ok, I give you the benifit of doubt and am willing to listen to your solution to the smart and logical ways and you can list your solutions to the above situations you brought up.

After all....if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

saywhatkid

Seems to me that your opinion on birth control would matter more in this thread, than trying to find fault in me, but whatever floats your boat. Also, I really don't care who posts in here; I just find it less thrilling to debate BC with guys. They don't have the same things at stake in the debate.

__________________
"We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves." ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13

rolling7

Your opinion is excellent. All I would do is ask you to look at the cost this way

A pack of condoms cost $$ and the guys has to spend that $$ regularly.

B/C pills cost $$ and a woman has to get a refill regularly.

Vasectomines cost $$$$ but this is a one time expense, so over the life time the real cost is $$

Sterlization cost $$$$ but this is a one time expense, so over the life time the real cost is $$

(note I did not include women going to their Ob/Gyn which is an additional cost, however I myself go to my doctor 3 times a year and I talk myself blue in the face to get other men to also go to the doctor for a check-up)

So my point would be $$ = $$, the cost and consequences are equal on both sides of the male/female equation. IMO that has to be.

rolling7

Yes we do. We have an equal stake in the responsibility of protection and the consequence of intercourse. As the matter of fact, we have to be the first to take responsible actions.