Bomb explosion and shooting in Norway - Page 5

souggy · 07-25-2011, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

See what I mean?

The spin has already started......

Hitler was neither a religious zealot or a religious fundamentalist. He was an atheist .... go check your history.

Sometimes people are just ..... nuts.

Although Hitler publicly declared himself an atheist, he had an obsession with Christian occultism.

The occult can be just as potentially dangerous as fundamentalism.

souggy · 07-25-2011, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You are so mistaken, once again. You are the one that objected to the historical fact of untold murders occurring as the result of religious fundamental dogma and zealot behaviors. Dude, it's historical fact. And not just Christianity, although Christian fundamentalism certainly bears responsiblilty for untold numbers of deaths.

The suicide vest was invented by a Hindu fundamentalist group, no? Sort of ironic considering a lot of people think Muslims came up with the concept-- and considering the reason for the divide between India and Pakistan.

souggy · 07-25-2011, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

What makes me feel so pissed off is that mass murderer will may face to up to 21 years only in prison. It is very much like just a slap on the wrist.

That's because Norwegians believe people don't habitually re-offend if treated humanely. Hell, they refuse to hand back foreign criminals back to their countries in the name of human rights.

I know he killed so many people, however us North Americans have no say in how they apply their laws.

souggy · 07-25-2011, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

Forget the religious issue, it is not the real problem. The real problem is gun control. This scumbag took huge advantage that no one around has gun to kill him in order to defend themselves. Supposely there is no strict gun laws where norway requires owner to lock the gun and put away. Then that scumbag will think twice before shooting.

Just think for a moment, like I said if everyone on that island has gun, this probably won't be this bad.

Wrong.

It has very little to do with gun control. Most people in Norway owns a gun. Why? They believe it's their right to hunt.

The thing is, no one ever thought someone would use a historical asset in taking grouses, bears and moose as a weapon against the public; so no one really thought they should carry one with them during the off-seasons. For the most part, their history has been void of violence, so people learned to trust each others.

**deafskeptic** · 07-25-2011, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

The suicide vest was invented by a Hindu fundamentalist group, no? Sort of ironic considering a lot of people think Muslims came up with the concept-- and considering the reason for the divide between India and Pakistan.

Hmm.. that's something I hadn't known.

LakeTahoe · 07-25-2011, 08:02 AM

This is Diehardbiker

Re check the gun law there. I did read, if (guns) were not used in hunting or sporting game, then it is required to lock and put away. That is what normal civilians would required. There is no hunting or shooting sporting going on there on that island so therefore all guns are required to lock and put away. That is a gun control that fails.

Sorry, Im using my wife account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Wrong.

It has very little to do with gun control. Most people in Norway owns a gun. Why? They believe it's their right to hunt.

The thing is, no one ever thought someone would use a historical asset in taking grouses, bears and moose as a weapon against the public; so no one really thought they should carry one with them during the off-seasons. For the most part, their history has been void of violence, so people learned to trust each others.

**Daredevel7** · 07-25-2011, 08:35 AM

I think the discussions about Norway's shooting are perfect examples of a type of person using an event to further their viewpoint/agenda.

The religious person: "It's not fair that they called the shooter a fundamentalist Christian. It is incorrect. He is NOT one and the media is trying to make Christianity/religion look bad!"

The anti-religion person: "See what religion does to people?"

The liberal person: "Now the conservatives know what it will be like to have someone of your religion/type do something bad and people blame it on the whole group. This is exactly what happened to Muslims."

The gun lover: "If only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't happen. Everyone would be safe. It's that simple."

The gun hater: "If only everyone was (were?) banned to have guns, this wouldn't happen. Everyone would be safe. It's that simple."

posts from hell · 07-25-2011, 08:47 AM

Just did the math, the deaths amount up to almost twice as 9/11 deaths per captia.

And you guys who scream for the death penalty are the problem of America.

There's a reason (actually several) countries like France, Denmark, Sweden, and Ireland has a murder rate 1/5th of the USA, and Norway at almost 1/10th of ours. (Spain, Greece, Germany, Switzerland are in between of 1/5-1/10th)

Now Diehardbiker.. This is 1 person. Its not a failed gun control.

NOWWWWWWWWWWW Let me show you guys a Norwegian prison so you guys can have something else to be "mad at"....

This is a prisoner:

Enjoy.

Don't believe me??? Look up Bastoy Prison.

**Reba** · 07-25-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Although Hitler publicly declared himself an atheist, he had an obsession with Christian occultism.

The occult can be just as potentially dangerous as fundamentalism.

There's an oxymoron--"Christian occultism."

If a person practices the occult, he's not a Christian.

If a person is a Christian, he doesn't get involved with occult practices.

The Bible condemns occultism.

**Reba** · 07-25-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

NOWWWWWWWWWWW Let me show you guys a Norwegian prison so you guys can have something else to be "mad at"...

Don't believe me??? Look up Bastoy Prison.

That's for the Norwegians to deal with, not us. As long as the killer isn't allowed into America after his 21 years (or whatever sentence) is over, we don't have any say about it.

posts from hell · 07-25-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That's for the Norwegians to deal with, not us. As long as the killer isn't allowed into America after his 21 years (or whatever sentence) is over, we don't have any say about it.

I wouldn't mind letting him be here.

You see, that IS the problem I am referring to. Once a person served, he's forever a criminal here even though they've served their time. Then they are forced to reoffend, thanks to the likes of that thought path.

diehardbiker · 07-25-2011, 09:14 AM

Of course, it is not fool proof. My point is that if there is least restrictive gun controls, then the idiot like this guy may not be able to achieve as much death as he did if the guns were allowed. There is no such thing as fool proof security.

And yes your right about USA has the highest prison population, this proves that USA laws has failed to serve its purpose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Now Diehardbiker.. This is 1 person. Its not a failed gun control.

diehardbiker · 07-25-2011, 09:33 AM

Yup I can see it crystal clear, once convicted and put in record, then the opportunites becomes very limited, which makes it alot easier for them to re-offend. Limited opportunity to earn living after prison life which makes it harder to pay bills and other expenses, so it is alot easier for them just go back to prison and not worry about paying bills. That is the real problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

I wouldn't mind letting him be here.

You see, that IS the problem I am referring to. Once a person served, he's forever a criminal here even though they've served their time. Then they are forced to reoffend, thanks to the likes of that thought path.

**Daredevel7** · 07-25-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

I wouldn't mind letting him be here.

You see, that IS the problem I am referring to. Once a person served, he's forever a criminal here even though they've served their time. Then they are forced to reoffend, thanks to the likes of that thought path.

I agree with you..... up to a point. This crime was too heinous and massive to allow for rehabilitation. It would be hard even for Norwegians to feel that everything is fine and peachy around this guy after he serves his time.

Royale · 07-25-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I know, isn't that the pits?

I just learned that he could be out on weekend paroles after seven years.

**Jiro** · 07-25-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

-snipped-

not interested

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

A fundamentalist protestant would never want the church to revert back to Catholocism .... keep in mind, Catholics are the liberals, protestants are the "scary right wingers".

I am more and more inclined to believe that he was labelled a fundamentalist purely for political reasons.

Catholics are liberals?

You seriously need to study some religious history.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

What makes me feel so pissed off is that mass murderer will may face to up to 21 years only in prison. It is very much like just a slap on the wrist.

I am not certain exactly how Norway handles cases of people who are shown to be acting out of a psychosis, but since they appear to be more humane that the States, I would say that he will be spending his time in a mental hospital until he can be shown to be no longer a threat to himself or others. That means that he will be under the state ordered care of a mental hospital quite a bit longer than if he were sentenced to a specific sentence in prison. People who act out and committ acts such as this don't have a very good prognosis for any kind of recovery.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I think the discussions about Norway's shooting are perfect examples of a type of person using an event to further their viewpoint/agenda.

The religious person: "It's not fair that they called the shooter a fundamentalist Christian. It is incorrect. He is NOT one and the media is trying to make Christianity/religion look bad!"

The anti-religion person: "See what religion does to people?"

The liberal person: "Now the conservatives know what it will be like to have someone of your religion/type do something bad and people blame it on the whole group. This is exactly what happened to Muslims."

The gun lover: "If only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't happen. Everyone would be safe. It's that simple."

The gun hater: "If only everyone was (were?) banned to have guns, this wouldn't happen. Everyone would be safe. It's that simple."

Amazing, isn't it?

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

I just learned that he could be out on weekend paroles after seven years.

Could be. But that is speculation that doesn't consider all the particulars that will be involved with the sentencing in this particular case.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

Of course, it is not fool proof. My point is that if there is least restrictive gun controls, then the idiot like this guy may not be able to achieve as much death as he did if the guns were allowed. There is no such thing as fool proof security.

And yes your right about USA has the highest prison population, this proves that USA laws has failed to serve its purpose.

Gun control really doesn't have effect on crimes like this, or on murder rates in general.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I agree with you..... up to a point. This crime was too heinous and massive to allow for rehabilitation. It would be hard even for Norwegians to feel that everything is fine and peachy around this guy after he serves his time.

Insanity is going to come into play on this case. It will affect sentencing, although being in Norway, I am not that well versed on exactly how it will mediate sentencing, etc. But you can bet your boots it will be an issue.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

Yup I can see it crystal clear, once convicted and put in record, then the opportunites becomes very limited, which makes it alot easier for them to re-offend. Limited opportunity to earn living after prison life which makes it harder to pay bills and other expenses, so it is alot easier for them just go back to prison and not worry about paying bills. That is the real problem.

Right. Our justice system is rehabilitative in name only. In practice, it is punitive, and the effects of that last a lifetime. For both the criminal and society.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

That's because Norwegians believe people don't habitually re-offend if treated humanely. Hell, they refuse to hand back foreign criminals back to their countries in the name of human rights.

I know he killed so many people, however us North Americans have no say in how they apply their laws.

And they have one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. Just because of the way they handle their penal institutions and justice system.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

Wrong.

It has very little to do with gun control. Most people in Norway owns a gun. Why? They believe it's their right to hunt.

The thing is, no one ever thought someone would use a historical asset in taking grouses, bears and moose as a weapon against the public; so no one really thought they should carry one with them during the off-seasons. For the most part, their history has been void of violence, so people learned to trust each others.

Gun control is an issue that people consistently use as a way to reduce violent crime, yet it has virtually no correlation to crimes of this nature, or murder statistics in general. Murder rates are not reduced by gun control, nor are violent crimes in general.

**Jiro** · 07-25-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

Forget the religious issue, it is not the real problem. The real problem is gun control. This scumbag took huge advantage that no one around has gun to kill him in order to defend themselves. Supposely there is no strict gun laws where norway requires owner to lock the gun and put away. Then that scumbag will think twice before shooting.

Just think for a moment, like I said if everyone on that island has gun, this probably won't be this bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardbiker

Of course, it is not fool proof. My point is that if there is least restrictive gun controls, then the idiot like this guy may not be able to achieve as much death as he did if the guns were allowed. There is no such thing as fool proof security.

And yes your right about USA has the highest prison population, this proves that USA laws has failed to serve its purpose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Gun control really doesn't have effect on crimes like this, or on murder rates in general.

correct. look at Arizona shooting and Senator Giffords was shot in the head. This happened in.... gun-friendly state.

why would people be packing some heat to a youth camp on some island? Even if I live in gun-friendly state like Arizona or Texas, I wouldn't be carrying firearm all the time.

It is fine for people to assume that some of us are armed which can serve as a deterrent but I don't think it's healthy to assume that one day... some lunatic is gonna open fire on us.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Just did the math, the deaths amount up to almost twice as 9/11 deaths per captia.

And you guys who scream for the death penalty are the problem of America.

There's a reason (actually several) countries like France, Denmark, Sweden, and Ireland has a murder rate 1/5th of the USA, and Norway at almost 1/10th of ours. (Spain, Greece, Germany, Switzerland are in between of 1/5-1/10th)

Now Diehardbiker.. This is 1 person. Its not a failed gun control.

NOWWWWWWWWWWW Let me show you guys a Norwegian prison so you guys can have something else to be "mad at"....

This is a prisoner:

Enjoy.

Don't believe me??? Look up Bastoy Prison.

Wow! Thanks for doing the math on that one! It doesn't surprise me in the least, however.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

correct. look at Arizona shooting and Senator Giffords was shot in the head. This happened in.... gun-friendly state.

why would people be packing some heat to a youth camp on some island? Even if I live in gun-friendly state like Arizona or Texas, I wouldn't be carrying firearm all the time.

It is fine for people to assume that some of us are armed which can serve as a deterrent but I don't think it's healthy to assume that one day... some lunatic is gonna open fire on us.

No it isn't. That is what leads to innocent people being killed as a result of paranoia.

And the fact of the matter, the person executing the attack has the advantage because of the element of surprise. Before it registers what is actually happening, many people are already dead.

**Jiro** · 07-25-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No it isn't. That is what leads to innocent people being killed as a result of paranoia.

And the fact of the matter, the person executing the attack has the advantage because of the element of surprise. Before it registers what is actually happening, many people are already dead.

and chance is - a legally-armed citizen would be mistakenly shot by police.

jillio · 07-25-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

and chance is - a legally-armed citizen would be mistakenly shot by police.

Right.

07-25-2011, 08:47 AM	#128 (permalink)
posts from hell Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9,433	Just did the math, the deaths amount up to almost twice as 9/11 deaths per captia. And you guys who scream for the death penalty are the problem of America. There's a reason (actually several) countries like France, Denmark, Sweden, and Ireland has a murder rate 1/5th of the USA, and Norway at almost 1/10th of ours. (Spain, Greece, Germany, Switzerland are in between of 1/5-1/10th) Now Diehardbiker.. This is 1 person. Its not a failed gun control. NOWWWWWWWWWWW Let me show you guys a Norwegian prison so you guys can have something else to be "mad at".... This is a prisoner: Enjoy. Don't believe me??? Look up Bastoy Prison. jillio likes this.

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07-25-2011, 08:35 AM	#127 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	I think the discussions about Norway's shooting are perfect examples of a type of person using an event to further their viewpoint/agenda. The religious person: "It's not fair that they called the shooter a fundamentalist Christian. It is incorrect. He is NOT one and the media is trying to make Christianity/religion look bad!" The anti-religion person: "See what religion does to people?" The liberal person: "Now the conservatives know what it will be like to have someone of your religion/type do something bad and people blame it on the whole group. This is exactly what happened to Muslims." The gun lover: "If only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't happen. Everyone would be safe. It's that simple." The gun hater: "If only everyone was (were?) banned to have guns, this wouldn't happen. Everyone would be safe. It's that simple."