A 14 years old rape victim was caned to death after being raped by a cousin. - Page 3

**Reba** · 02-08-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Is religion infallible? If so, then the religious laws that allowed this child's death are perfectly acceptable.

God only is infallible. Manmade religious systems are not. I have faith in God, not religion nor science.

cdaigle430 · 02-08-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

Govt asked to explain failure to stop fatwa

I am so disgusted by the way that they treated a poor girl.

I agree,
Unfortunatley, muslims see women as property-not human. I was invited to a muslim home for dinner one time. I was told not to speak, thank, look at or even acknowledge any woman at this home.

When I sat down to eat, it was just the men-no women, or children. After we were done eating, then, the children at what was left. After that it was the wives turn. Wierd huh?

Bebonang · 02-08-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdaigle430

I agree,
Unfortunatley, muslims see women as property-not human. I was invited to a muslim home for dinner one time. I was told not to speak, thank, look at or even acknowledge any woman at this home.

When I sat down to eat, it was just the men-no women, or children. After we were done eating, then, the children at what was left. After that it was the wives turn. Wierd huh?

That is true. In Asia like Chinese and other cultures has look down on women. Other countries like Pakistan and India are putting women down too. There has been no equality and freedom for women and girl children. The religion laws like Islam and Hebrew are hurting them very much and very dangerous for them to die. Jesus had tried to tell the crowd that they should not stone or whip them because of their difference as women. Men do that behind everybody's back, but not the women. That is why the men have the pleasure of seeing them get killed like wives, mistresses, daughters, and girl cousins. Women are never safe in their countries.

**Dixie** · 02-08-2011, 09:46 PM

Even here right in our own backyard, women are not seen as an equal but rather inferior. I was BOILING two Sundays ago in my SS class and our SS teacher said that women MUST submit to men and that anything of women's opinion is not important to the men and he was dead serious. Oh I let him have it!

I reminded him that Eve was taken from Adam's rib not to be above him or beneath him but to support him and to be protected by his arm. He just looked at me like I had grown four eyeballs and six ears. He said "it is black and white in the Bible, women must submit to their husbands."

Then I said a woman shouldn't put up with all the crap and get little to no thanks in return for it. The women are always cooking the men their weekly breakfast at the church, when are the men gonna do something nice for the ladies outside of Mother's Day? If the ladies want to do something nice they have to get together in the women's ministry and do it themselves. I think if the men are going to get breakfast once a week then the men should be doing dinner for the ladies once a week as well. I told him I'm sick of this inferiority crap that women should submit and these desperate housewives are buying into it. It's not a 'worldly view' its one that Jesus would have accepted. Mary Magdalene was a woman and also His closest confidante. Now we have men pushing the women further and further away into the kitchen 'where she belongs'. This inferiority attitude. I then said what about Beth Moore? You claim she is not a preacher but a teacher. She studies the Bible, brings her interpretation and her lessons from it and shares it before a crowd that often contains men and women. The same damn thing a preacher does. The only reason she's not ordained is because she's got boobs and better plumbing, if I didn't know any better I'd say the men were jealous of her success. The only reason she's not going a step further is because if she does she loses her financial backing for her ministry.

Needless to say I ruffled some feathers and I've not been back since.

Bebonang · 02-08-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie

Even here right in our own backyard, women are not seen as an equal but rather inferior. I was BOILING two Sundays ago in my SS class and our SS teacher said that women MUST submit to men and that anything of women's opinion is not important to the men and he was dead serious. Oh I let him have it!

I reminded him that Eve was taken from Adam's rib not to be above him or beneath him but to support him and to be protected by his arm. He just looked at me like I had grown four eyeballs and six ears. He said "it is black and white in the Bible, women must submit to their husbands."

Then I said a woman shouldn't put up with all the crap and get little to no thanks in return for it. The women are always cooking the men their weekly breakfast at the church, when are the men gonna do something nice for the ladies outside of Mother's Day? If the ladies want to do something nice they have to get together in the women's ministry and do it themselves. I think if the men are going to get breakfast once a week then the men should be doing dinner for the ladies once a week as well. I told him I'm sick of this inferiority crap that women should submit and these desperate housewives are buying into it. It's not a 'worldly view' its one that Jesus would have accepted. Mary Magdalene was a woman and also His closest confidante. Now we have men pushing the women further and further away into the kitchen 'where she belongs'. This inferiority attitude. I then said what about Beth Moore? You claim she is not a preacher but a teacher. She studies the Bible, brings her interpretation and her lessons from it and shares it before a crowd that often contains men and women. The same damn thing a preacher does. The only reason she's not ordained is because she's got boobs and better plumbing, if I didn't know any better I'd say the men were jealous of her success. The only reason she's not going a step further is because if she does she loses her financial backing for her ministry.

Needless to say I ruffled some feathers and I've not been back since.

Bravo!!!!!

Right on, girl!

**TWA** · 02-08-2011, 10:23 PM

Arkansas sounds like a hell of a place...

And good on you, Dixie, for standing up to patriarchal douchebags!

**Jiro** · 02-08-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie

Even here right in our own backyard, women are not seen as an equal but rather inferior. I was BOILING two Sundays ago in my SS class and our SS teacher said that women MUST submit to men and that anything of women's opinion is not important to the men and he was dead serious. Oh I let him have it!

I reminded him that Eve was taken from Adam's rib not to be above him or beneath him but to support him and to be protected by his arm. He just looked at me like I had grown four eyeballs and six ears. He said "it is black and white in the Bible, women must submit to their husbands."

Then I said a woman shouldn't put up with all the crap and get little to no thanks in return for it. The women are always cooking the men their weekly breakfast at the church, when are the men gonna do something nice for the ladies outside of Mother's Day? If the ladies want to do something nice they have to get together in the women's ministry and do it themselves. I think if the men are going to get breakfast once a week then the men should be doing dinner for the ladies once a week as well. I told him I'm sick of this inferiority crap that women should submit and these desperate housewives are buying into it. It's not a 'worldly view' its one that Jesus would have accepted. Mary Magdalene was a woman and also His closest confidante. Now we have men pushing the women further and further away into the kitchen 'where she belongs'. This inferiority attitude. I then said what about Beth Moore? You claim she is not a preacher but a teacher. She studies the Bible, brings her interpretation and her lessons from it and shares it before a crowd that often contains men and women. The same damn thing a preacher does. The only reason she's not ordained is because she's got boobs and better plumbing, if I didn't know any better I'd say the men were jealous of her success. The only reason she's not going a step further is because if she does she loses her financial backing for her ministry.

Needless to say I ruffled some feathers and I've not been back since.

That guy needs a history lesson on Sexual Division of Labor.

He forget that men has to do their share by hunting for food and bringing it back home for wives to cook. Men were the hunter-gatherer and Women were the food processor. Men and Women are mutually dependent on each other to survive.

In modern time - men have to go to grocery and buy all the foods for wives to cook. If men make women do the food gathering and cooking... they are the weak and they wouldn't pass the Survival of Fittest test.

**TWA** · 02-08-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

That guy needs a history lesson on Sexual Division of Labor.

He forget that men has to do their share by hunting for food and bringing it back home for wives to cook. Men were the hunter-gatherer and Women were the food processor. Men and Women are mutually dependent on each other to survive.

In modern time - men have to go to grocery and buy all the foods for wives to cook. If men make women do the food gathering and cooking... they are the weak and they wouldn't pass the Survival of Fittest test.

I see a lot more women at the grocery store than men.

Guess most of them don't pass the test?

**Jiro** · 02-08-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWriteAlex

I see a lot more women at the grocery store than men.

Guess most of them don't pass the test?

I'd say so. My dad does his job to gather food with my mom on weekend. I see lot of couples doing that too around here.

One can say that men were providing women the means of gathering food because men work full-time and women are full-time housewife. But as long as men and women are mutually dependent on each other and do their fair shares of jobs... that's ok.

but based on Dixie's post... I can see that that man is useless and does a very little work.

**Bottesini** · 02-08-2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I'd say so. My dad does his job to gather food with my mom on weekend. I see lot of couples doing that too around here.

One can say that men were providing women the means of gathering food because men work full-time and women are full-time housewife. But as long as men and women are mutually dependent on each other and do their fair shares of jobs... that's ok.

My husband always does his share of everything, including the gathering food, and did so always, even before I could not see.

I know most of the couples we know do the same.

Bebonang · 02-08-2011, 10:44 PM

And the one thing I don't understand is why men don't know how to take care of themselves like cleaning, cooking and paying the bills? They could have live on their own without women except to date women. Men don't need to depend on women to be their slaves. That is really horrible. Women have been taking care of themselves for years without men except to date men. But men seem not know how to handle being single or being bachelors. My father is the same way like them. He can not handle being alone and had married 5 times. That is what puzzle me. There is something wrong with this picture.

**TXgolfer** · 02-08-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

God only is infallible. Manmade religious systems are not. I have faith in God, not religion nor science.

rebeccalj · 02-09-2011, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

How horrifying!

It's their culture, but there needs to be a global standard for human rights that everyone adheres to.

Unfortunately, with 26% of the world population being Muslim, and 80% adhering to Sharia Law, this isn't likely.

To me, fatwas aren't the problem. Sharia Law is.

Here is another article on the situation. Apparently the father of the rape victim was also fined.

Islamic Clerics Cane 14-Year-Old Rape Victim to Death For Adultery - True Crime Report

jillio · 02-09-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

God only is infallible. Manmade religious systems are not. I have faith in God, not religion nor science.

The people who committed this act also have faith in God.

jillio · 02-09-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebeccalj

Unfortunately, with 26% of the world population being Muslim, and 80% adhering to Sharia Law, this isn't likely.

To me, fatwas aren't the problem. Sharia Law is.
Here is another article on the situation. Apparently the father of the rape victim was also fined.

Islamic Clerics Cane 14-Year-Old Rape Victim to Death For Adultery - True Crime Report

I could not agree more. And Americans really need to see these reports and think seriously about the things that happen when law is based on religious belief systems.

jillio · 02-09-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie

Even here right in our own backyard, women are not seen as an equal but rather inferior. I was BOILING two Sundays ago in my SS class and our SS teacher said that women MUST submit to men and that anything of women's opinion is not important to the men and he was dead serious. Oh I let him have it!

I reminded him that Eve was taken from Adam's rib not to be above him or beneath him but to support him and to be protected by his arm. He just looked at me like I had grown four eyeballs and six ears. He said "it is black and white in the Bible, women must submit to their husbands."

Then I said a woman shouldn't put up with all the crap and get little to no thanks in return for it. The women are always cooking the men their weekly breakfast at the church, when are the men gonna do something nice for the ladies outside of Mother's Day? If the ladies want to do something nice they have to get together in the women's ministry and do it themselves. I think if the men are going to get breakfast once a week then the men should be doing dinner for the ladies once a week as well. I told him I'm sick of this inferiority crap that women should submit and these desperate housewives are buying into it. It's not a 'worldly view' its one that Jesus would have accepted. Mary Magdalene was a woman and also His closest confidante. Now we have men pushing the women further and further away into the kitchen 'where she belongs'. This inferiority attitude. I then said what about Beth Moore? You claim she is not a preacher but a teacher. She studies the Bible, brings her interpretation and her lessons from it and shares it before a crowd that often contains men and women. The same damn thing a preacher does. The only reason she's not ordained is because she's got boobs and better plumbing, if I didn't know any better I'd say the men were jealous of her success. The only reason she's not going a step further is because if she does she loses her financial backing for her ministry.

Needless to say I ruffled some feathers and I've not been back since.

I think you need to go back and and fire another round or two at them!

You go, girl!

**Beowulf** · 02-09-2011, 12:27 PM

I have faith in faith. That way I am seldom surprised.

jillio · 02-09-2011, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bebonang

And the one thing I don't understand is why men don't know how to take care of themselves like cleaning, cooking and paying the bills? They could have live on their own without women except to date women. Men don't need to depend on women to be their slaves. That is really horrible. Women have been taking care of themselves for years without men except to date men. But men seem not know how to handle being single or being bachelors. My father is the same way like them. He can not handle being alone and had married 5 times. That is what puzzle me. There is something wrong with this picture.

It is because of the way we socialize our male children. Often times in very subtle ways that we don't even realize. I find the psychology of gender really interesting.

jillio · 02-09-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I have faith in faith. That way I am seldom surprised.

You always come up with such wisdom!

**Reba** · 02-09-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The people who committed this act also have faith in God.

How do you know that? How do you know about the faith anyone has unless they tell you about it?

The fatwa they carried out was a combination of man-made religion and their culture.

If it were just their religion, then followers of that religion would do the same thing, worldwide. But they don't, so it's also a strong cultural influence.

**Reba** · 02-09-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie

Even here right in our own backyard, women are not seen as an equal but rather inferior. I was BOILING two Sundays ago in my SS class and our SS teacher said that women MUST submit to men and that anything of women's opinion is not important to the men and he was dead serious. Oh I let him have it!

I reminded him that Eve was taken from Adam's rib not to be above him or beneath him but to support him and to be protected by his arm. He just looked at me like I had grown four eyeballs and six ears. He said "it is black and white in the Bible, women must submit to their husbands."

Then I said a woman shouldn't put up with all the crap and get little to no thanks in return for it. The women are always cooking the men their weekly breakfast at the church, when are the men gonna do something nice for the ladies outside of Mother's Day? If the ladies want to do something nice they have to get together in the women's ministry and do it themselves. I think if the men are going to get breakfast once a week then the men should be doing dinner for the ladies once a week as well. I told him I'm sick of this inferiority crap that women should submit and these desperate housewives are buying into it. It's not a 'worldly view' its one that Jesus would have accepted. Mary Magdalene was a woman and also His closest confidante. Now we have men pushing the women further and further away into the kitchen 'where she belongs'. This inferiority attitude. I then said what about Beth Moore? You claim she is not a preacher but a teacher. She studies the Bible, brings her interpretation and her lessons from it and shares it before a crowd that often contains men and women. The same damn thing a preacher does. The only reason she's not ordained is because she's got boobs and better plumbing, if I didn't know any better I'd say the men were jealous of her success. The only reason she's not going a step further is because if she does she loses her financial backing for her ministry.

Needless to say I ruffled some feathers and I've not been back since.

I'm sorry that your SS teacher has such a gross misunderstanding about God's plan for men and women, especially in the marital relationship.

Honestly, I really don't get the Sunday breakfast thing.

AlleyCat · 02-09-2011, 04:15 PM

Its all just sick. The whole caning of a 14 year old girl.

jillio · 02-10-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

How do you know that? How do you know about the faith anyone has unless they tell you about it?

The fatwa they carried out was a combination of man-made religion and their culture.

If it were just their religion, then followers of that religion would do the same thing, worldwide. But they don't, so it's also a strong cultural influence.

What exactly do you think religious doctrine and culture are based on?

**Dixie** · 02-11-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I'm sorry that your SS teacher has such a gross misunderstanding about God's plan for men and women, especially in the marital relationship.

Honestly, I really don't get the Sunday breakfast thing.

No, the breakfast is on Thursday mornings at 6:30. Yeah the women get up and get to the church around 5:30 or 6 and have a hot breakfast ready for the men when they have their weekly 'prayer breakfast'. There's tons of ministries for the men to join and do, but then there's just WOM (WMU) and that's it.

Anything the women's ministry does is usually very expensive or it's conflicting with my work schedule.

But then again why bother getting involved anyway? From what I hear there's a lot of backstabbing and cat fighting amongst this "fellowship". Not only that I'm very different from the others. I'm a single parent, I don't have a lot of money, I'm a closet homosexual, I don't like shiny prissy things. I'm more raw than them. I drink, I smoke, I curse, I tell it like it is. It's just me and I believe I rub a lot of people the wrong way sometimes.

I dunno, I just feel awkward most of the time yet I would feel even more out of place elsewhere. I have rededicated but I feel like nothing's changed really. My pastor hit the nail on the head when he said people don't go to church to find God, they go to church to find friends. Thing is I don't 'fellowship' with other members. I'm just there. A warm body.

Maybe it's time I break from the SBC??

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What exactly do you think religious doctrine and culture are based on?

The culture was pre-existing their current religion.

The various cultures in the Muslim world adapted the religion to fit each culture.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie

No, the breakfast is on Thursday mornings at 6:30. Yeah the women get up and get to the church around 5:30 or 6 and have a hot breakfast ready for the men when they have their weekly 'prayer breakfast'. There's tons of ministries for the men to join and do, but then there's just WOM (WMU) and that's it.

Ah, got it.

Our church has a weekday morning prayer time for the men, too. They get doughnuts from Krispy Kreme or biscuits from Bo Jangles, and the church serves coffee. The men take care of themselves.

The focus is supposed to be on the prayer time, not the eating time. (My opinion.)

"What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not." I Corinthians 11:22

I'm not familiar with WOM or WMU.

There are plenty of ministries for men and women at our church. Also, members are welcome to create new ministries. Hubby and I have done that. We saw a need in the church, and volunteered to take care of it.

Quote:

Anything the women's ministry does is usually very expensive or it's conflicting with my work schedule.

There are plenty of ministries for men and women at our church. Also, members are welcome to create new ministries. Hubby and I have done that. We saw a need in the church, and volunteered to take care of it.

Quote:

But then again why bother getting involved anyway? From what I hear there's a lot of backstabbing and cat fighting amongst this "fellowship". Not only that I'm very different from the others. I'm a single parent, I don't have a lot of money, I'm a closet homosexual, I don't like shiny prissy things. I'm more raw than them. I drink, I smoke, I curse, I tell it like it is. It's just me and I believe I rub a lot of people the wrong way sometimes.

It seems like you have more issues that need to be addressed before you can be comfortable in any Christian church.

Quote:

I dunno, I just feel awkward most of the time yet I would feel even more out of place elsewhere. I have rededicated but I feel like nothing's changed really. My pastor hit the nail on the head when he said people don't go to church to find God, they go to church to find friends. Thing is I don't 'fellowship' with other members. I'm just there. A warm body.

Your pastor was partially right. People may go to church to find friends but that's not the reason God intended. Finding friends thru church attendance is a great side benefit but that's not the reason God established the church, nor is it the reason He expects people to attend and serve.

Quote:

Maybe it's time I break from the SBC??

Perhaps.

I'm afraid we're getting off topic. Please feel free to pm me if you want to discuss further.

jillio · 02-12-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

The culture was pre-existing their current religion.

The various cultures in the Muslim world adapted the religion to fit each culture.

Post religion, cultural values change and are revised. The two, culture and religion, are intimately tied together.

The same can be said of Christianity.

Bebonang · 02-12-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Post religion, cultural values change and are revised. The two, culture and religion, are intimately tied together.

The same can be said of Christianity.

Yeah, that is what happen to us, Native American, saying that our native religion was and probably still is barbaric or not comfortable associate with the white religion.

Reba, What about Jews? Jesus was a Jewish. So what is the big deal about that? Why against Jewish people that have to suffer under Christian rule? It does not make sense like that. Should have left us alone as this is our culture. No one should tell us to convert to their religion just because someone oppose different religion.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bebonang

Yeah, that is what happen to us, Native American, saying that our native religion was and probably still is barbaric or not comfortable associate with the white religion.

Reba, What about Jews? Jesus was a Jewish. So what is the big deal about that? Why against Jewish people that have to suffer under Christian rule? It does not make sense like that. Should have left us alone as this is our culture. No one should tell us to convert to their religion just because someone oppose different religion.

I don't know why people want to persecute the Jews other than it's part of Satan's plan to destroy God's chosen people. Christians for sure should not persecute Jews. I would certainly question the Christianity of anyone who either spoke evil of or acted against the Jewish people.

**TXgolfer** · 02-13-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reba

i don't know why people want to persecute the jews other than it's part of satan's plan to destroy god's chosen people. Christians for sure should not persecute jews. I would certainly question the christianity of anyone who either spoke evil of or acted against the jewish people.

+1

02-08-2011, 09:46 PM	#64 (permalink)
Dixie May I be found in Him Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 13,266	Even here right in our own backyard, women are not seen as an equal but rather inferior. I was BOILING two Sundays ago in my SS class and our SS teacher said that women MUST submit to men and that anything of women's opinion is not important to the men and he was dead serious. Oh I let him have it! I reminded him that Eve was taken from Adam's rib not to be above him or beneath him but to support him and to be protected by his arm. He just looked at me like I had grown four eyeballs and six ears. He said "it is black and white in the Bible, women must submit to their husbands." Then I said a woman shouldn't put up with all the crap and get little to no thanks in return for it. The women are always cooking the men their weekly breakfast at the church, when are the men gonna do something nice for the ladies outside of Mother's Day? If the ladies want to do something nice they have to get together in the women's ministry and do it themselves. I think if the men are going to get breakfast once a week then the men should be doing dinner for the ladies once a week as well. I told him I'm sick of this inferiority crap that women should submit and these desperate housewives are buying into it. It's not a 'worldly view' its one that Jesus would have accepted. Mary Magdalene was a woman and also His closest confidante. Now we have men pushing the women further and further away into the kitchen 'where she belongs'. This inferiority attitude. I then said what about Beth Moore? You claim she is not a preacher but a teacher. She studies the Bible, brings her interpretation and her lessons from it and shares it before a crowd that often contains men and women. The same damn thing a preacher does. The only reason she's not ordained is because she's got boobs and better plumbing, if I didn't know any better I'd say the men were jealous of her success. The only reason she's not going a step further is because if she does she loses her financial backing for her ministry. Needless to say I ruffled some feathers and I've not been back since. __________________ Oh, you will. It is all a dream and since matter cannot be created nor destroyed, the dreams must be real in all their myriad forms. -Beowulf This Delicate Thing God Has Made *The world is measured in peasants; smaller than a unicorn but, bigger than a tidbit!*

02-08-2011, 10:44 PM	#71 (permalink)
Bebonang Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Manitoulin Island on Lake Huron in Canada Posts: 7,009	And the one thing I don't understand is why men don't know how to take care of themselves like cleaning, cooking and paying the bills? They could have live on their own without women except to date women. Men don't need to depend on women to be their slaves. That is really horrible. Women have been taking care of themselves for years without men except to date men. But men seem not know how to handle being single or being bachelors. My father is the same way like them. He can not handle being alone and had married 5 times. That is what puzzle me. There is something wrong with this picture. __________________ I HAVE BEEN DEAF SINCE BIRTH, AND IT IS STILL AWESOME TO BE . (thumb up) (very happy)

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02-08-2011, 10:23 PM	#66 (permalink)
TWA Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,374	Arkansas sounds like a hell of a place... And good on you, Dixie, for standing up to patriarchal douchebags!

02-09-2011, 12:27 PM	#77 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,515	I have faith in faith. That way I am seldom surprised.

02-09-2011, 04:15 PM	#82 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,830	Its all just sick. The whole caning of a 14 year old girl.