Man won't submit to security, TSA won't let him fly. Who's right? - Page 8

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

as posted before -
Like I said - you have to request for it. Some TSA agents are considerate enough to ask you if you would like it done in private.

It is on the sign at the security checkpoint. *shrug* Both agents (pat down, scanner) I had read instuctions to me off of a card. Eventually they allowed me to read the card since I could not hear them. Seemed like SOP to me.

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

In regards to profiling, it does work.

The reason it's a bad word here is because there are criminals that is scared to death of profiling, they know it really works. So they figured the best way to end profiling is call it racist and they succeeded. Political correctness at it's finest.

If you watched Criminal Minds, you can get a general idea how profiling works. It doesn't mean that in real life that those that uses the profiling system can solve a crime within' an hour just like on TV. In fact, with hard cases, profiling could take months to years before the case finally cracks and is solved.

It's too bad that our country has become so pussified that everyone is afraid of offending anyone. It's not only sad, it's also downright ridiculous as well.

Yiz

Behavior profiling is very effective and does work. It has worked for over 30 years at Ben Gurion airport. Remember, it's behavior profiling, not profiling which has an entirely different meaning and context.

Just stating my opinion though I'm not complaining if others have a different opinion.

Each to his or her own.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Behavior profiling is very effective and does work. It has worked for over 30 years at Ben Gurion airport. Remember, it's behavior profiling, not profiling which has an entirely different meaning and context.

Just stating my opinion though I'm not complaining if others have a different opinion.

Each to his or her own.

correct. Behavior Profiling is effective. It's best done by professionals with extensive background plus military. TSA agents doesn't even meet half of Israeli's background so how can we entrust TSA agents to do what Israelis can do? The only way to do that is to revamp TSA's employment requirement.

State Police or City Police. This is like entrusting city police to do state police job.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What would those "extraordinary circumstances" be?

you'll have to ask TSA.

**Beowulf** · 11-16-2010, 04:46 PM

Good Lord, Israel????? They are THUGS!

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Good Lord, Israel????? They are THUGS!

I am going to tell them you said that.

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:53 PM

Yeah, they stone to death those pesky adulterers.

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 04:55 PM

Wonder is behavior profiling would have caught the 9/11 jackasses

Odds are the pat downs and and scanner would have.

just sayin'

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Wonder is behavior profiling would have caught the 9/11 jackasses

Odds are the pat downs and and scanner would have.

just sayin'

Hindsight is 20/20. Had airports used similar security layers seen at Ben Gurion airport they'd probably caught them even befor they have gotten to the pat downs and scanners.

**Beowulf** · 11-16-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Wonder is behavior profiling would have caught the 9/11 jackasses

Odds are the pat downs and and scanner would have.

just sayin'

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Hindsight is 20/20. Had airports used similar security layers seen at Ben Gurion airport they'd probably caught them even befor they have gotten to the pat downs and scanners.

It was an inside job, you bozos.

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

It was an inside job, you bozos.

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 07:19 PM

Pilots getting frustrated, too.
Pilots among those dismayed at scanners, pat-downs - Yahoo! News

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 08:14 PM

The Truth about Behavior Profiling

Quote:

PROFILES IN TERROR: A LEGAL FRAMEWORK FOR THE BEHAVIORAL PROFILING PARADIGM
While Screening Passengers by Observation Technique's (SPOT) scientific basis lies in FACS, its more immediate precursor lies overseas in Israel. Israel conducts mandatory full searches and interviews of every passenger, with an average time spent of fifty-seven minutes per person. These interviews focus not just on the passenger’s verbal answers, but on their behavior and expressions. Behavioral profiling for airport security emerged in Israel and made its way to the United States via a program run by Massachusetts state officials at Boston’s Logan International Airport in 2002. In England, the British Aircrafts Authority (“BAA”) has also implemented behavioral profiling at the Heathrow Express rail service. The trials were so successful that “the BAA was considering training all frontline staff at its seven airports, including 6,000 at security checkpoints.”

There are, however, significant differences between behavioral profiling in U.S. airports, which (at least initially) relies on observation, and the use of behavioral profiling in Israeli aviation security, in which observation is carefully combined with in depth questioning of all passengers. Moreover, the difference in air passenger volume between Israel and the United States is substantial. In 2007, just over ten million international passengers passed through Ben Gurion International Airport and just four hundred thousand domestic travelers. The number of scheduled domestic and international passengers on U.S. airlines during the first eleven months of 2007 was 706.6 million. To implement an aviation security program in the United States that paralleled the Israeli model would present massive logistical difficulties and significant financial costs. And spending an hour interviewing and scrutinizing each passenger, as the Israelis do, would make airport travel even more cumbersome and slow.

The training of security personnel differs significantly between the U.S. and Israel. As outlined above, BDOs are typically culled from the ranks of routine security screeners at TSA and need only a high school degree or GED equivalent. The Israelis select officers––the vast majority of whom have military backgrounds—and subject them to tests in order to select those with above-average intelligence and particularly strong personality types. The Israeli recruits then benefit from nine weeks of training in behavior recognition where they practice identifying terrorists who may have been trained to evade behavioral pattern recognition. These highly trained Israeli aviation security agents develop advanced skills in order to recognize the precise behaviors exemplified by potential hijackers or terrorists. By contrast, BDOs receive just four days of classroom instruction and analysis––which relies in part on watching videotapes with known visual cues of deception––and twenty-four hours of on-the-job training in an airport security checkpoint environment.

so.... bottom line -

Ben Gurion International Airport security guard's qualification

Quote:

-military background
-college education (above-intelligence and strong personality type
-9 weeks of training in behavioral profiling

Requirement for TSA agent's qualification

Quote:

Applicants must be a citizen of the United States or a U.S National and have a high school diploma, GED or recognized equivalent. If you do not possess the education component, you can still apply if you have at least one year of full time experience working as an X-ray technician, aviation screener or security officer. In addition to these two basic requirements, applicants will be required to meet the following employment conditions:

Demonstrate physical fitness to work on a daily basis without the aid of medication.
Work irregular hours and shifts, including holidays and weekends.
Pass drug and alcohol screening tests.
Pass background, criminal and credit checks.

-4 days of training

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 08:17 PM

N.J. lawmakers seek to stop airport security scans

Quote:

TRENTON, N.J. — The use of full-body scanners at airports should be reconsidered because the machines are ineffective, are overly intrusive and open the door to further invasions of privacy depending on how the images are retained, state lawmakers said Monday as they announced a resolution urging Congress to review the program.

"We're not talking about eliminating security; we're talking about using security wisely," said Assemblywoman Valerie Vainieri Huttle, a Democrat from Bergen County.

The effort brought together members of both political parties and both houses of the state Legislature, as well as the American Civil Liberties Union. The resolution calls the scans a "gross violation" of the Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure and says the machines' effectiveness has not been sufficiently proven.

More than 300 of the machines are in use at dozens of airports around the country. Newark began operating its first machine last month. The scanner creates a detailed computerized image of a person's body and gives screeners the ability to check for weapons or other prohibited items.

Travelers who decline to go through the scanner are subjected to a pat-down that the lawmakers said involves the touching of genital areas.

"If it occurred in another setting, somebody would be going to jail," Sen. Michael Doherty, a Republican from Hunterdon County, said.

An incident involving a body scanner at San Diego's Lindbergh Field over the weekend became an Internet sensation after a software engineer posted a cellphone audio recording of the encounter.

On NBC's "Today" show Monday, TSA head John Pistole said the agency is looking for a balance between security and privacy.

In a statement responding to the New Jersey lawmakers, Pistole called the technology safe and "vital to aviation security."

"Less than one year after al Qaida's failed attack last Christmas Day, it is irresponsible to suggest travelers opt out of the very screening that may prevent an attack using non-metallic explosives," Pistole said.

Among other concerns the lawmakers raised was the potential health risks of radiation exposure to small children, pregnant women and people who fly frequently.

They also cautioned about the use of images produced by the scanners, particularly those of children. The images are supposed to stay in the machine, ACLU executive director Deborah Jacobs said, but could create legal issues if they were transferred to a server where they could be viewed by more people.

Doherty admitted that the opposition to the new security measures may be a sign that post-Sept. 11 attitudes toward personal privacy are changing.

"I think we gave the government the benefit of the doubt," Doherty said. "But what's to stop them from doing this kind of thing on buses or trains, or at shopping malls? Where does it end?"

N.J. lawmakers ask feds to back off full-body scans

Quote:

- UPDATED (6:35 p.m. ET): A bipartisan group of New Jersey politicians this afternoon said they intend to press the feds to end the use of airport full-body scanners.

With that, the lawmakers are the latest to step into the growing and increasingly controversial fray over the use of the scanners.

The Star-Ledger of Newark writes the group “announced they were introducing resolutions in the state Senate and Assembly asking Congress to review the effectiveness and legality of the TSA screening processes.”

“Enough is enough,” Republican State Sen. Michael J. Doherty tells the Star-Ledger. “We believe there are constitutional violations taking place. We believe there are violations of New Jersey state law taking place.”

“We’re not talking about eliminating security; we’re talking about using security wisely,” Assemblywoman Valerie Vainieri Huttle, a Democrat from Bergen County, says to The Associated Press.

More than 300 of the full-body scanners are now in use at airports across the United States. Newark Liberty — New Jersey’s primary airport and one of the nation’s busiest hubs — began operating its first full-body scanner in October, according to AP.

The scanners have become one of the aviation industry’s top hot-button issues, with critics claiming the scans amount to a “virtual strip search” and raise questions about both safety and privacy.

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 10:42 PM

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is considering on giving exemptions to Muslim women at airports because CAIR demands it!

YouTube - OMG... Big Sis Considers Giving Exemptions to Muslim Women at Airports

Not CC ready. Sorry. But the video discusses how Muslim groups (CAIR) are demanding to Janet Napolitano to give exemptions to Muslim women from pat downs and screening.
Council on American-Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Laughable administration evah! Sorry, folks. It's true. The WH is a joke.

Again, the answer to this problem is behavior profiling. Well trained ones with the same equivalent skills as those at the Ben Gurion airport that are able to perform behavior profiling.

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is considering on giving exemptions to Muslim women at airports because CAIR demands it!
YouTube - OMG... Big Sis Considers Giving Exemptions to Muslim Women at Airports

Not CC ready. Sorry. But the video discusses how Muslim groups (CAIR) are demanding to Janet Napolitano to give exemptions to Muslim women from pat downs and screening.
Council on American-Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Laughable administration evah! Sorry, folks. It's true. The WH is a joke.

Again, the answer to this problem is behavior profiling. Well trained ones with the same equivalent skills as those at the Ben Gurion airport that are able to perform behavior profiling.

Now that would cross the line.....pat downs for everyone or no one.....Sounds to me like those women need to opt for the scanner or the Ford.

**Reba** · 11-16-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is considering on giving exemptions to Muslim women at airports because CAIR demands it!

Not CC ready. Sorry. But the video discusses how Muslim groups (CAIR) are demanding to Janet Napolitano to give exemptions to Muslim women from pat downs and screening.
Council on American-Islamic Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I posted this:

Article Details

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 10:56 PM

Yeah, we had an underwear bomber, next it'll be a tampon bomber.

PowerON · 11-17-2010, 12:12 PM

YouTube - TSA's enhanced security spurs US 'airport rage'

**Daredevel7** · 11-17-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Umm, what makes you so sure that they won't enjoy it?

What makes you sure they WOULD?

I'm reminded of a quote from Seinfeld. "95% of the population is un-dateable!"

**Reba** · 11-17-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

What makes you sure they WOULD?

I'm reminded of a quote from Seinfeld. "95% of the population is un-dateable!"

I'm not sure about every screener either way; that's why I ask. Some screeners may enjoy it, some may not. Unless they react the way you suggest, the plan won't work.

katz4life · 11-18-2010, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I went through the body scanner at DFW (I think....might have been SFO) No big deal at all. In and out in 30 seconds.

Also got patted down at DFW last trip.... Again no big deal. Took about 1 minute....would have taken about half that had there not been communication difficulties. (I took hearing aid out....didn't have to. The even searched my wallet by hand. Too me it's a small inconvenience I am willing to tolerate. I can understand how some might see it differently.

Did they crotch your tool and balls?

katz4life · 11-18-2010, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

YouTube - TSA's enhanced security spurs US 'airport rage'

Oh, jeez....lol *smh*!

**Jiro** · 11-20-2010, 02:44 AM

U.S. pilots to get speedier screening procedures

Quote:

Washington (CNN) -- Airline pilots who want to skip certain airport screening measures -- saying it's wasteful to search pilots for sharp objects when they can bring down planes with their bare hands -- are finally getting their way.

The Transportation Security Administration announced Friday that it is taking steps to streamline screening for U.S. airline pilots.

Pilots traveling in uniform on airline business will be allowed to bypass normal security screening by presenting screeners with their airline ID and another form of identification, the TSA said. The screeners will check the information against a secure, real-time airline crew member database, which includes a picture and other information to verify the pilots' employment status, the TSA said.

Pilots will be subject to random screening and other layers of security, the TSA said.

The TSA said the changes will take effect immediately while it phases in a more permanent system.

Pilots have long argued that it is a waste of costly security resources to check pilots for restricted objects. Thousands of pilots, they note, are licensed to carry firearms in cockpits under the government's Federal Flight Deck Officer program. Time spent checking pilots would be better spent checking others, they say.

"Airline pilots are the last line of defense against someone who would use an airplane for ill. And we need to be a trusted partner in our security efforts," retired U.S. Airways pilot Chelsey "Sully" Sullenberger told CNN earlier this week.

"You know, many pilots are already armed as deputized and trained flight deck officers to defend the cockpit. And so really it's a waste of our limited resources to put airline pilots who are trusted partners in this through this screening."

TSA Administrator John Pistole said the change "just makes for smart security and an efficient use of our resources."

The change also will likely squelch pilot complaints about going through full-body scanners, some of which emit low levels of radiation. The TSA says the scanners are safe, exposing people to about the same amount of radiation they would get by flying for about two minutes at altitude.

But pilots have become alarmed by some doctors who say not enough is known about the machines. Recently, a pilots union encouraged its members to avoid the devices.

On Friday, pilots unions called the announcement a welcome change.

For the past three years, the TSA has tested an electronic pilot identification screening system called CrewPASS, or Crew Personnel Advanced Screening System.

The TSA said Friday that CrewPASS will continue to operate at the test sites: Baltimore-Washington Thurgood Marshall International, Pittsburgh International, and Columbia (S.C.) Metropolitan airports.

good! so what's next? VIP?

DDU · 11-20-2010, 06:15 AM

we need a separate airline that will take people who do not want to be scanned. all others will fly in planes knowing that there are perverted TSA employee's but feel safer knowing there ain't a underwear bomber on board

Glenn · 11-20-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDU

we need a separate airline that will take people who do not want to be scanned. all others will fly in planes knowing that there are perverted TSA employee's but feel safer knowing there ain't a underwear bomber on board

LOL. It'll never happen...

**Reba** · 11-20-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

LOL. It'll never happen...

There are private planes that do exactly that. Of course, it costs more.

Glenn · 11-20-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

There are private planes that do exactly that. Of course, it costs more.

A private company owns a 747?

**Reba** · 11-20-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

A private company owns a 747?

DDU didn't mention the size of aircraft but I'm sure there are. Doesn't John Travolta have one parked in his yard?

**Reba** · 11-20-2010, 01:39 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/bu...7megajets.html

http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/06/jet..._0308jets.html

http://www.aircharterguru.com/#

11-16-2010, 04:53 PM	#217 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Yeah, they stone to death those pesky adulterers. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-16-2010, 04:55 PM	#218 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,605	Wonder is behavior profiling would have caught the 9/11 jackasses Odds are the pat downs and and scanner would have. just sayin' __________________ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21 Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

11-16-2010, 07:19 PM	#222 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Pilots getting frustrated, too. Pilots among those dismayed at scanners, pat-downs - Yahoo! News __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-16-2010, 10:56 PM	#228 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Yeah, we had an underwear bomber, next it'll be a tampon bomber. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-20-2010, 06:15 AM	#235 (permalink)
DDU Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: north east Posts: 804	we need a separate airline that will take people who do not want to be scanned. all others will fly in planes knowing that there are perverted TSA employee's but feel safer knowing there ain't a underwear bomber on board __________________ when in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

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11-16-2010, 04:46 PM	#215 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,514	Good Lord, Israel????? They are THUGS!

11-20-2010, 01:39 PM	#240 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,129	http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/bu...7megajets.html http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/06/jet..._0308jets.html http://www.aircharterguru.com/#

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