Man won't submit to security, TSA won't let him fly. Who's right? - Page 7

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

They actually reach into your pants and "touch your junk" in front of everyone?

As I said....I belive those accounts are "exaggerated". As for "in front of everyone" you have the right to have the pat down done in a private area. They tell you that up front.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I haven't found the details yet but here's a little info:

"'In the U.S., profiling is a bad word,' Liss said, but he defended the practice, saying it is done by 'intelligent, motivated' university students who served in Israel's military and can identify passengers who could pose a potential risk."

Obviously, the USA has more airports, more people passing thru the airports, and more variety of passengers and destinations.

aw you didn't have to do homework for kokonut.

and looks like everybody forgot. I posted a very detailed information about this in other thread and explained many times about it.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

As I said....I belive those accounts are "exaggerated". As for "in front of everyone" you have the right to have the pat down done in a private area. They tell you that up front.

not really. YOU have to request for it.

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Yes, obviously. Yet Ben Gurion has been doing this for years and there were plenty of time for airports in the U.S. to learn about their techniques helping ensure travelers' safety and security WITHOUT the need to touch/fondle/caress/squeeze somebody's junk. What a joke TSA has become. Watch airline stocks tank after the holidays. Common sense, folks. Common sense.

Airline stocks are probably going to do pretty well after the holidays actually. Air travel is way up this holiday season.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Airline stocks are probably going to do pretty weel after the holidays actually. Air travel is way up this holiday season.

yep. always. for years.

can tell this guy is not much of a traveler.

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

In steps every American’s favorite pilot, the Hudson splash-landing hero of Flight 1549 fame, Sully Sullenberger, to say, you know what? Keep your hands to yourselves. “I can tell you from my perspective as an airline pilot for three decades, this just isn’t an effective use of our resources.”

Sully gracefully glided into the story just as the cable nets were whipping themselves into a junk-touching frenzy over the camera phone video of passenger John Tyner’s run in with the TSA at San Diego’s airport, telling agents he considered the uber-sensitive search to be, essentially, a sexual assault, advising agents (and creating a phrase that pays) “don’t touch my junk.”

On CNN’s American Morning Tuesday, anchor Kiran Chetry asked Sullenberger what he thinks of the pat down policy, paraphrasing John Tyner’s concerns this way: “I don’t want anybody but my wife and maybe my doctor touching me in the places these people are touching me.”

Sully, by the way, can land a passenger jet in a river without so much as getting a passenger wet, but he couldn’t stop the TSA from hand searching his own wife during a recent trip. (Hands off Mrs. Sully, you goons!) “She was touched in sensitive places,” said Sully.

sully sullenberger-touch my junk | kiran chetry | Mediaite

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

not really. YOU have to request for it.

Nope....they go over what is going to take place before they start. Hence the communication delay I mentioned earlier.

**Reba** · 11-16-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

As I said....I belive those accounts are "exaggerated". As for "in front of everyone" you have the right to have the pat down done in a private area. They tell you that up front.

Have the TSA agents denied that it happened?

It seems that if the passengers' accounts weren't true that the TSA would be actively denying the reports.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Nope....they go over what is going to take place before they start. Hence the communication delay I mentioned earlier.

not really. they never asked me if I wanted to go to privacy room when they wanted to do a pat-down. He did kinda touch my junk.

**Reba** · 11-16-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

aw you didn't have to do homework for kokonut.

and looks like everybody forgot. I posted a very detailed information about this in other thread and explained many times about it.

I assume anyone and everyone is welcome to provide input.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I assume anyone and everyone is welcome to provide input.

He is the one who keeps beating drum about it and preaching that we should adopt Israeli's method. I repeatedly posted along with detailed facts that it's impossible to do so in America. and plus... this is not how I want America to be... A Country of Fear.

It's funny.... he wanted America to adopt Israeli's method.. and yet preaches that we cannot afford Obamacare?

**Daredevel7** · 11-16-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

TSA Now Putting Hands Down Fliers’ Pants

Loss of freedom anyone? Not to mention a violation of privacy. And people screamed about behavior profiling was inappropriate and their supposed loss of freedom? Rigggghhhtt.

Common sense, people. Use it.

Doh!

I'm pretty sure the training isn't putting the WHOLE hand down into the pants. I've seen it before, they put fingers into the waistband and feel 360 deg all round. This is supposed to shake off any loose drugs stuffed into the pants as well as feel any foreign objects.

But it doesn't matter. They will find a way. I mean if I were to sneak in any drugs, I have a perfect hiding place.

Only dogs could sniff me out.

Why aren't they using dogs more often? And dogs aren't even the only animal that can sniff out the bad stuff. What about pigs????

Oh wait yes, they will yell out animal cruelty... pfft.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I'm pretty sure the training isn't putting the WHOLE hand down into the pants. I've seen it before, they put fingers into the waistband and feel 360 deg all round. This is supposed to shake off any loose drugs stuffed into the pants as well as feel any foreign objects.

But it doesn't matter. They will find a way. I mean if I were to sneak in any drugs, I have a perfect hiding place.

Only dogs could sniff me out.

Why aren't they using dogs more often? And dogs aren't even the only animal that can sniff out the bad stuff. What about pigs????

Oh wait yes, they will yell out animal cruelty... pfft.

pigs? it will offend Muslim-Americans and Jewish people

**TXgolfer** · 11-16-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

not really. they never asked me if I wanted to go to privacy room when they wanted to do a pat-down. He did kinda touch my junk.

**Reba** · 11-16-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I'm pretty sure the training isn't putting the WHOLE hand down into the pants. I've seen it before, they put fingers into the waistband and feel 360 deg all round. This is supposed to shake off any loose drugs stuffed into the pants as well as feel any foreign objects.

But it doesn't matter. They will find a way. I mean if I were to sneak in any drugs, I have a perfect hiding place.

Only dogs could sniff me out.

Why aren't they using dogs more often? And dogs aren't even the only animal that can sniff out the bad stuff. What about pigs????

Oh wait yes, they will yell out animal cruelty... pfft.

TSA is searching for drugs?

What animal cruelty???

**Reba** · 11-16-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

pigs? it will offend Muslim-Americans and Jewish people

Muslims aren't keen about dogs either.

**Daredevel7** · 11-16-2010, 04:03 PM

I have an idea!!!

Let's have one day where all guys have a fake boner in their pants and women have "wet" crotches. When we go to the airport, we will request a pat down. When they pat us down, we should start moaning and making little comments like "That's the stuff."

All TSA employees will request to end the pat-down within a few hours.

WHO IS WITH ME?!

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Airline stocks are probably going to do pretty weel after the holidays actually. Air travel is way up this holiday season.

Thanksgiving holiday is next week and Christmas/New Year a month away. Like I said, wait til after the holidays and then see how it goes next year after experiencing those nifty "lemme-check-your-junk, ma'am" security checks.

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:06 PM

One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans
One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans

Run by me again that loss of freedom and privacy versus behavior profiling?

**Daredevel7** · 11-16-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

TSA is searching for drugs?

What animal cruelty???

Sorry, let me clarify. That's a common procedure FOR searching for drugs. But you are right, that is not their purpose. However, since bombs (or any other threats) can be in the form of powder, so they can be searched LIKE they have drugs.

And there is no animal cruelty. Sometimes people (cough PETA cough) think that if we make an animal do work, it's animal cruelty.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

as posted before -

Quote:

Additional screening occurs when an individual sets off the alarm on the metal detector, or if he or she is selected for the additional screening. This screening includes a hand-wand inspection in conjunction with a pat-down inspection that includes the torso.

If you must go through additional screening, the screener will direct you from the metal detector to a screening station where he or she will brief you on the next steps.

* At this time, you should let the screener know of any personal needs you may have due to a religious or cultural consideration, disability, or other medical concern.
* Except in extraordinary circumstances, a screener of your gender will conduct your additional screening. You may request that your search be conducted in private.

While you will be separated from your carry-on baggage during this process, every effort will be made to help you maintain visual contact with your carry-ons.

Quote:

Pat-Down Inspection

A pat-down inspection complements the hand-wand inspection. In order to ensure security, this inspection may include sensitive areas of the body. Security Officers are rigorously trained to maintain the highest levels of professionalism. You may request that your pat-down inspection be conducted in private.

Like I said - you have to request for it. Some TSA agents are considerate enough to ask you if you would like it done in private.

yizuman · 11-16-2010, 04:09 PM

In regards to profiling, it does work.

The reason it's a bad word here is because there are criminals that is scared to death of profiling, they know it really works. So they figured the best way to end profiling is call it racist and they succeeded. Political correctness at it's finest.

If you watched Criminal Minds, you can get a general idea how profiling works. It doesn't mean that in real life that those that uses the profiling system can solve a crime within' an hour just like on TV. In fact, with hard cases, profiling could take months to years before the case finally cracks and is solved.

It's too bad that our country has become so pussified that everyone is afraid of offending anyone. It's not only sad, it's also downright ridiculous as well.

Yiz

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I assume anyone and everyone is welcome to provide input.

Correct.

**Jiro** · 11-16-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans
One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans

Run by me again that loss of freedom and privacy versus behavior profiling?

Behavior Profiling by TSA (with mostly high school diploma and 8ish hours of training)

and what do we get? Unconstitutional Airport Detention And Interrogation Of College Student Carrying Arabic Flashcards

**Reba** · 11-16-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I have an idea!!!

Let's have one day where all guys have a fake boner in their pants and women have "wet" crotches. When we go to the airport, we will request a pat down. When they pat us down, we should start moaning and making little comments like "That's the stuff."

All TSA employees will request to end the pat-down within a few hours.

WHO IS WITH ME?!

Umm, what makes you so sure that they won't enjoy it?

**Reba** · 11-16-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

as posted before -

* Except in extraordinary circumstances, a screener of your gender will conduct your additional screening.

What would those "extraordinary circumstances" be?

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Did you know that the nation's airports are not required to have Transportation Security Administration screeners checking passengers at security checkpoints? The 2001 law creating the TSA gave airports the right to opt out of the TSA program in favor of private screeners after a two-year period. Now, with the TSA engulfed in controversy and hated by millions of weary and sometimes humiliated travelers, Rep. John Mica, the Republican who will soon be chairman of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, is reminding airports that they have a choice

Read more at the Washington Examiner: Amid airport anger, GOP takes aim at screening | Washington Examiner

Quote:

In addition to being large, impersonal, and top-heavy, what really worries critics is that the TSA has become dangerously ineffective. Its specialty is what those critics call "security theater" -- that is, a show of what appear to be stringent security measures designed to make passengers feel more secure without providing real security. "That's exactly what it is," says Mica. "It's a big Kabuki dance."

Now, the dance has gotten completely out of hand. And like lots of fliers -- I spoke to him as he waited for a flight at the Orlando airport -- Mica sees TSA's new "naked scanner" machines and groping, grossly invasive passenger pat-downs as just part of a larger problem. TSA, he says, is relying more on passenger humiliation than on practices that are proven staples of airport security.

For example, many security experts have urged TSA to adopt techniques, used with great success by the Israeli airline El Al, in which passengers are observed, profiled, and most importantly, questioned before boarding planes. So TSA created a program known as SPOT -- Screening of Passengers by Observation Techniques. It began hiring what it called behavior detection officers, who would be trained to notice passengers who acted suspiciously. TSA now employs about 3,000 behavior detection officers, stationed at about 160 airports across the country.

The problem is, they're doing it all wrong. A recent Government Accountability Office study found that TSA "deployed SPOT nationwide without first validating the scientific basis for identifying suspicious passengers in an airport environment." They haven't settled on the standards needed to stop bad actors.

"It's not an Israeli model, it's a TSA, screwed-up model," says Mica. "It should actually be the person who's looking at the ticket and talking to the individual. Instead, they've hired people to stand around and observe, which is a bastardization of what should be done."

Read more at the Washington Examiner: Amid airport anger, GOP takes aim at screening | Washington Examiner

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:23 PM

TSA need to learn to do it properly. Hire Israelis security experts to the proper training for them since they have the experience at Ben Gurion airport.

**Banjo** · 11-16-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What would those "extraordinary circumstances" be?

... that the person is capable of walking on the water?

kokonut · 11-16-2010, 04:29 PM

What Israeli security could teach us
Print Article

11-16-2010, 04:06 PM	#199 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans Run by me again that loss of freedom and privacy versus behavior profiling? __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-16-2010, 04:09 PM	#202 (permalink)
yizuman Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,370	In regards to profiling, it does work. The reason it's a bad word here is because there are criminals that is scared to death of profiling, they know it really works. So they figured the best way to end profiling is call it racist and they succeeded. Political correctness at it's finest. If you watched Criminal Minds, you can get a general idea how profiling works. It doesn't mean that in real life that those that uses the profiling system can solve a crime within' an hour just like on TV. In fact, with hard cases, profiling could take months to years before the case finally cracks and is solved. It's too bad that our country has become so pussified that everyone is afraid of offending anyone. It's not only sad, it's also downright ridiculous as well. Yiz __________________

11-16-2010, 04:23 PM	#208 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	TSA need to learn to do it properly. Hire Israelis security experts to the proper training for them since they have the experience at Ben Gurion airport. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

11-16-2010, 04:29 PM	#210 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	What Israeli security could teach us Print Article __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

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11-16-2010, 04:03 PM	#197 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	I have an idea!!! Let's have one day where all guys have a fake boner in their pants and women have "wet" crotches. When we go to the airport, we will request a pat down. When they pat us down, we should start moaning and making little comments like "That's the stuff." All TSA employees will request to end the pat-down within a few hours. WHO IS WITH ME?!