'Open Carry' Law Contoversy: Gun Owner Cited - Page 7

jillio · 10-25-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

You recently spent some time in Vermont - one of only 2 states that do not require any firearm license. Basically 100% gun-friendly state. How did it go? Did you encounter a Charles Bronson vigilante? A fool walking around with pistol in his pants like he's got something to prove? Anything?

Vermont is a very socially aware state...especially the area I was in. Didn't encounter a single person carrying a firearm. You know why? Because they are socially aware.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

You could say that for those who support gun ban law but I have never heard of any stupidity nor ignorance shown by CCW/OC holders in public. And I have never heard of any innocent being killed or injured in public by CCW/OC holders.

Who supports a gun ban law?

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

How do you know they were not innocent if they are dead?

Not me. Police officers and 911 calls.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Vermont is a very socially aware state...especially the area I was in. Didn't encounter a single person carrying a firearm. You know why? Because they are socially aware.

that applies to nearly every CCW/OC holders in all states. That's why you rarely or probably never heard of any tragic incident caused by CCW/OC holders.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Not me. Police officers and 911 calls.

Oh, I see. Have you heard about the unreliability of eye witnesses? And if a vigilante shot them, the police are only going on what eye witnesses report.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

that applies to nearly every CCW/OC holders in all states. That's why you rarely or probably never heard of any tragic incident caused by CCW/OC holders.

I disagree. Socially aware people don't feel the need to parade down main street with a gun on their hip even if it is legal to do so.

I did, however, see a man walking a pig down main street while I was in Vermont. However, he was harming no one, and no one felt the need to protect themselves by shooting at him or the pig. I am told there is a gentleman that also walks his goat in town. No one has felt the need to shoot him, either. Or even to banish him from the town. Socially aware people are not threatened by differences.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I disagree. Socially aware people don't feel the need to parade down main street with a gun on their hip even if it is legal to do so.

people? you talk as if it's wild west out there.

the truth? there's only 1 or 2 person OC'ing it in same place at any given time.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I disagree. Socially aware people don't feel the need to parade down main street with a gun on their hip even if it is legal to do so.

I did, however, see a man walking a pig down main street while I was in Vermont. However, he was harming no one, and no one felt the need to protect themselves by shooting at him or the pig. I am told there is a gentleman that also walks his goat in town. No one has felt the need to shoot him, either. Or even to banish him from the town. Socially aware people are not threatened by differences.

and if you see a man walking a lion down main street...... then what?

**deafskeptic** · 10-25-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I disagree. Socially aware people don't feel the need to parade down main street with a gun on their hip even if it is legal to do so.

Dunno if I could be called socially aware but I don't own a gun and I live in an open carry state. I don't think I've ever seen anyone other than cops openly displaying their guns other than that one occasion when I was 18 and saw some old guy openly carrying his rifle in downtown Richmond.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Oh, I see. Have you heard about the unreliability of eye witnesses? And if a vigilante shot them, the police are only going on what eye witnesses report.

so got any link to such incident?

PoiToy · 10-25-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I have a token example of the deaths of innocent people from the availability of firearms. Check the CDC stats.

Firearms exist. It's a sad fact. I *wish* they weren't a problem, but no amount of wishing and no amount of gun control will make every gun on the planet suddenly disappear or make criminals stop killing innocent people. This is not a problem we can legislate away. The CDC stats only tell me that each one of those innocent people might still be alive if they or a bystander had been better armed and better trained than their attacker.

Murder is a social, mental, emotional and spiritual problem. We don't need to make better gun laws, we need to make better people. Until then, I protect myself.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

people? you talk as if it's wild west out there.

the truth? there's only 1 or 2 person OC'ing it in same place at any given time.

Are you sure of that? You don't even live in an OC area.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Are you sure of that? You don't even live in an OC area.

yes pretty sure. what do you think why you rarely hear about this kind of OC-related news? I think the last time was that black Republican guy carrying unloaded assault rifle with no magazine at political rally.

I was in Las Vegas and I saw only one person - a punk with extremely large baggy pants openly-carrying a glock, walking on crowded sidewalk. nobody panicked or called a cop on him.

I frequent to gun-friendly states and I rarely see a person OC'ing it. Majority of people prefer to CCW because of unwanted attention especially from police.

PoiToy · 10-25-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No one has felt the need to shoot him, either. Or even to banish him from the town. Socially aware people are not threatened by differences.

I'm confused. Do people that open carry (the not socially aware ones) often shoot pig-walkers in the street in your experience?

I'm still looking for the slew of examples of legally-armed, openly carrying people shooting anyone in the street. Google isn't giving up that data.

PoiToy · 10-25-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Ah!!! You're a fellow Hokie!!!! So am I!

Good news- Virginia law currently does not prohibit CCW on its public school property.

I'm only a Hokie by relation and association, but nice to meet you anyway!

I wasn't aware that Virginia allowed CCW on campus...will have to look into that. It would go a long way to making me feel better about the ridiculous security measures in place.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

yes pretty sure. what do you think why you rarely hear about this kind of OC-related news? I think the last time was that black Republican guy carrying unloaded assault rifle with no magazine at political rally.

I was in Las Vegas and I saw only one person - a punk with extremely large baggy pants openly-carrying a glock, walking on crowded sidewalk. nobody panicked or called a cop on him.

I frequent to gun-friendly states and I rarely see a person OC'ing it. Majority of people prefer to CCW because of unwanted attention especially from police.

And what was his intention? Certainly not to protect himself or anyone else from any kind of threat. It was to prove something.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiToy

I'm only a Hokie by relation and association, but nice to meet you anyway!

ahhh my bad

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiToy

I wasn't aware that Virginia allowed CCW on campus...will have to look into that. It would go a long way to making me feel better about the ridiculous security measures in place.

no no. there is NO law prohibiting firearms on public campuses. That's a subtle but very important difference.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And what was his intention? Certainly not to protect himself or anyone else from any kind of threat. It was to prove something.

and how would you know his intention?

jillio · 10-25-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiToy

I'm confused. Do people that open carry (the not socially aware ones) often shoot pig-walkers in the street in your experience?

I'm still looking for the slew of examples of legally-armed, openly carrying people shooting anyone in the street. Google isn't giving up that data.

They could have perceived that pig as a threat, or the behavior of walking a pig down Main Street as a threat. The point being, anyone that wants to see a threat will. My concern is the stability of those that see a threat at every turn. Just recently, a man shot his daughter in law and killed her because he thought she was a thief about to break into his house. She was walking up his drive way. If the gun had not been available, she would be alive. People make quick decisions oftentimes, and when they have a gun in their hand and make quick decisions, innocent people get killed.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

and how would you know his intention?

Uhhh....because he stated it.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Uhhh....because he stated it.

how? you never met him. I've never talked to him either. All he was doing is walking down the street, openly-carrying his gun and minding his own business.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

They could have perceived that pig as a threat, or the behavior of walking a pig down Main Street as a threat. The point being, anyone that wants to see a threat will. My concern is the stability of those that see a threat at every turn. Just recently, a man shot his daughter in law and killed her because he thought she was a thief about to break into his house. She was walking up his drive way. If the gun had not been available, she would be alive. People make quick decisions oftentimes, and when they have a gun in their hand and make quick decisions, innocent people get killed.

so.... you support gun ban law then?

PoiToy · 10-25-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

no no. there is NO law prohibiting firearms on public campuses. That's a subtle but very important difference.

While there might not be a state law prohibiting it, this is what I've found:

Quote:

In a January 4, 2006 Opinion, the Attorney General of Virginia wrote: “Governing boards of Virginia’s public colleges and universities may not impose general prohibition on carrying of concealed weapons by permitted individuals.”

However, the Attorney General did find that governing bodies of educational institutions have the authority to prohibit or place restrictions on the carrying of weapons by students, faculty, and employees.

So as long as I'm not a student or employee, I'm welcome to come on the campus with a gun. Sure, that makes a lot of sense.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

how? you never met him. I've never talked to him either. All he was doing is walking down the street, openly-carrying his gun and minding his own business.

It was stated in the article and the follow ups that were done.

Riiight. He just happened to be walking down the street with his gun in the same vicinity as the political rally. Come on, Jiro.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiToy

While there might not be a state law prohibiting it, this is what I've found:

So as long as I'm not a student or employee, I'm welcome to come on the campus with a gun. Sure, that makes a lot of sense.

well - it's a little more complicated than that. If the university has a posted sign prohibiting firearm on its premise - you are not allowed to carry one.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

so.... you support gun ban law then?

Where exactly did I say that?

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It was stated in the article and the follow ups that were done.

Riiight. He just happened to be walking down the street with his gun in the same vicinity as the political rally. Come on, Jiro.

If you backtrack... I was referring to a guy in Las Vegas but I see that we've got misunderstanding since you said "he" and there are two "he" in my post.

**Jiro** · 10-25-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Where exactly did I say that?

"If the gun had not been available, she would be alive."

jillio · 10-25-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

If you backtrack... I was referring to a guy in Las Vegas but I see that we've got misunderstanding since you said "he" and there are two "he" in my post.

"Him" is singular.

jillio · 10-25-2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

"If the gun had not been available, she would be alive."

Where does that say I am in favor of banning guns? I simply made a true statement in reference to people making too quick, and mistaken judgements and having a gun available.

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