Obama does the waiter bow to Japan's Emperor

kokonut · 11-14-2009, 10:15 AM

Just like the bow he did in front of a Muslim Saudi King only this time he bowed a little lower which is called a "waiter bow" in front of a superior. No eye contact, head down facing the floor, almost as if he's groveling probably much to some chagrin of the Emperor of Japan. He went beyond the 45 degree angle.
How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times
American Thinker Blog: Obama bows down to Saudi King (updated)
To Bow or Not To Bow

Eve · 11-14-2009, 10:28 AM

Our president should bow to NO ONE! He is not subservient to anyone. He is the one in the highest position of our country and to show subservience to another country makes a huge political statement, and not one we should be proud of. This is very discouraging

kokonut · 11-14-2009, 10:33 AM

Another aspect of Obama's own "sorry and bash America tour."

kokonut · 11-14-2009, 10:46 AM

And at the same time you can't wonder if Japan is paying a compliment or an insult with their new "Obama toilet paper." LMAO!!

Insult or compliment? There is Obama toilet paper in Japan... on Twitpic

Out of curiousity I found another source of these "special" toilet paper rolls you can buy from. Barack Obama Toilet Paper

Of course, we already had a Bush toilet paper.
GEORGE W. BUSH TOILET PAPER

Fair game I suppose. Though great Obama gag gift for friends and families?

rockin'robin · 11-14-2009, 11:33 AM

Isn't it a "custom" in Japan?....Inasmuch as the USA, usually shaking hands....and when meeting the Pope, kissing his hand?

Many other countries have their own customs. My guess is that it's customary and a show of respect towards the country's leader.

I'm sure if I met our own President, I would not say "Yo, how's it hanging?".....Dunno what to make of this thread.....

Eve · 11-14-2009, 11:36 AM

rockin'robin, while I understand what you are saying, it is the level of the bow that indicates more than simply respect. The lower you bow, the more subservient you are claiming to be to the one you are bowing before.

rockin'robin · 11-14-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

rockin'robin, while I understand what you are saying, it is the level of the bow that indicates more than simply respect. The lower you bow, the more subservient you are claiming to be to the one you are bowing before.

I understand that...but it's also a probability that since Obama is so tall, he didn't realize how low he was bowing....and perhaps didn't know HOW LOW NOT to bow!....Just think it's much ado about nothing.....

Jiro · 11-14-2009, 11:49 AM

Foxrac · 11-14-2009, 11:50 AM

I'm really don't care about how Obama is greeting so agree with Jiro above.

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

I understand that...but it's also a probability that since Obama is so tall, he didn't realize how low he was bowing....and perhaps didn't know HOW LOW NOT to bow!....Just think it's much ado about nothing.....

That might be a viable excuse if the issue hadn't already been addressed with him after his bow to the Saudi Arbian king.

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:04 PM

And Jiro, you should care how we are presenting ourselves to other countries.

kokonut · 11-14-2009, 12:05 PM

In a 1994 New York Times did an article where they basically scolded Clinton who if he actually executed a full bow (he almost did), it would have "destroyed" a precedent dating to the founding of the Republic regarding protocols on addressing other leaders.

Quote:

It wasn’t a bow, exactly. But Mr. Clinton came close. He inclined his head and shoulders forward, he pressed his hands together. It lasted no longer than a snapshot, but the image on the South Lawn was indelible: an obsequent President, and the Emperor of Japan.

Canadians still bow to England’s Queen; so do Australians. Americans shake hands. If not to stand eye-to-eye with royalty, what else were 1776 and all that about? …
Guests invited to a white-tie state dinner at the White House (a Clinton Administration first) were instructed to address the Emperor as “Your Majesty,” not “Your Highness” or, worse, “King.” And in what one Administration aide called “some emperor thing,” an Army general was cautioned that he should not address the Emperor Akihito at all as he escorted him to the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery.

But the “thou need not bow” commandment from the State Department’s protocol office maintained a constancy of more than 200 years. Administration officials scurried to insist that the eager-to-please President had not really done the unthinkable.

THE WORLD; The President's Inclination: No, It Wasn't a Bow-Bow - The New York Times

Yet, Obama does the full waiter bow. Any lower he'd be kissing the shoes of the Emperor, which wouldn't suprise me if that had happened. But NYT is strangely silent on this one.

Jiro · 11-14-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

And Jiro, you should care how we are presenting ourselves to other countries.

by respecting their culture when you're a guest in that country.

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:11 PM

respect is one thing, self-degradation is another

kokonut · 11-14-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

That might be a viable excuse if the issue hadn't already been addressed with him after his bow to the Saudi Arbian king.

American Presidents do not bow to royalty. If people didn't already know, and they don't, heads of state do not bow or show any sense of genuflectiion to each other in the normal course of diplomacy. At least that was the case until this amateur came into office and failed to learn from the first time he did it.

Jiro · 11-14-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

respect is one thing, self-degradation is another

guess we both have different perceptions. however - when one is drumming too hard, it is usually because one is trying to hide its discredited message

Jiro · 11-14-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

American Presidents do not bow to royalty. If people didn't already know, and they don't, heads of state do not bow or show any sense of genuflectiion to each other in the normal course of diplomacy. At least that was the case until this amateur came into office and failed to learn from the first time he did it.

so when the foreign head of state comes to USA, he shakes the President's hand when in their country - the guest must bow to them first.

by your logic - foreign leaders should not shake hand to President of United States in order not to show a sense of genuflectiion (whatever it's spelled from your post). I am very offended by your bigoted definition of bowing. Bowing is equivalent to shaking hand, nothing more, nothing less.

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I am very offended by your bigoted definition of bowing. Bowing is equivalent to shaking hand, nothing more, nothing less.

That is not true. Bows relay much more than just a greeting. Saikeirei is a showing of subserviency.

deafskeptic · 11-14-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

so when the foreign head of state comes to USA, he shakes the President's hand when in their country - the guest must bow to them first.

by your logic - foreign leaders should not shake hand to President of United States in order not to show a sense of genuflectiion (whatever it's spelled from your post). I am very offended by your bigoted definition of bowing. Bowing is equivalent to shaking hand, nothing more, nothing less.

Given Koko's logic, I guess it should be acceptable for foreign leaders not to shake our President's hand no matter what party he belongs to.

I don't see what the fuss is about.

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:32 PM

Miss Manners: "One does not bow or curtsy to a foreign monarch because the gesture symbolizes recognition of her power over her subjects."

Jiro · 11-14-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

That is not true. Bows relay much more than just a greeting. Saikeirei is a showing of subserviency.

I think you should leave the explaining to me... since I'm from "bowing" culture. We're not in ancient time. Here's a correct definition of bowing for 21st century - bowing is a respectful way of greeting equivalent to shaking hand. In Asian culture - they do not like to be touched. it's disrespectful. that's why we bow. only friends greet together by both bowing and shaking hands. Asian politicians adapted to Western way by shaking hands so they both bow and shake hands to foreign dignitaries.

By your logic - why would Asian friends bow to each other if you're telling us it's a showing of subserviency?

this thread is beginning to reek of ignorance and bigotry

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:36 PM

If it were merely a greeting, it would only involve a nod of the head, not a full body contortion. Being from a "bowing" culture, you should know that. There is nothing ignorant or bigoted about this discussion. To imply that is just playing the "race card."

Royale · 11-14-2009, 12:36 PM

It is important to show a respect to those Japanese people as a courtesy.

Bottesini · 11-14-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

And Jiro, you should care how we are presenting ourselves to other countries.

I don't usually participate in these and don't intend to start, but here is a picture of a President not quite getting to required behavior correct.

I am sure the are more of other presidents.

Bottesini · 11-14-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

If it were merely a greeting, it would only involve a nod of the head, not a full body contortion. Being from a "bowing" culture, you should know that. There is nothing ignorant or bigoted about this discussion. To imply that is just playing the "race card."

The United States has not been a bowing culture since the 1950's

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royale

It is important to show a respect to those Japanese people as a courtesy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

respect is one thing, self-degradation is another

I agree that respect should be shown, not subjection

shel90 · 11-14-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I think you should leave the explaining to me... since I'm from "bowing" culture. We're not in ancient time. Here's a correct definition of bowing for 21st century - bowing is a respectful way of greeting equivalent to shaking hand. In Asian culture - they do not like to be touched. it's disrespectful. that's why we bow. only friends greet together by both bowing and shaking hands. Asian politicians adapted to Western way by shaking hands so they both bow and shake hands to foreign dignitaries.

By your logic - why would Asian friends bow to each other if you're telling us it's a showing of subserviency?

this thread is beginning to reek of ignorance and bigotry

I guess it is about being superior to other cultures and having to do it their way rather than showing respect. This reminds me of the thread about not using sign language at a Deaf university.

Jiro · 11-14-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

If it were merely a greeting, it would only involve a nod of the head, not a full body contortion. Being fro a "bowing" culture, you should know that.

When a foreign dignitary gives a handshake to the President of United States, it is expected to have a firm, solid handshake for about a few seconds as a sign of respect. However - when one is giving improper, weak handshake that lasts no longer than half a second...

what does it mean?

Eve · 11-14-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I don't usually participate in these and don't intend to start, but here is a picture of a President not quite getting to required behavior correct.

I am sure the are more of other presidents.

I certainly didn't imply that GWB was a master of proper behavior, but I don't recall him ever showing subjection to foreign monarch. In fact, I don't recall ANY previous American president ever doing this until now.

netrox · 11-14-2009, 12:42 PM

Oh brother! Obama is just being respectful and he had to bow really low to their level (they're short, you know?) .

It's about respect. If you act cocky and think you should be "above" them, then you've got no manners.

11-14-2009, 10:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
kokonut Strength: a state of mind Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 9,501	Obama does the waiter bow to Japan's Emperor Just like the bow he did in front of a Muslim Saudi King only this time he bowed a little lower which is called a "waiter bow" in front of a superior. No eye contact, head down facing the floor, almost as if he's groveling probably much to some chagrin of the Emperor of Japan. He went beyond the 45 degree angle. How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow \| Top of the Ticket \| Los Angeles Times American Thinker Blog: Obama bows down to Saudi King (updated) To Bow or Not To Bow

11-14-2009, 11:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jiro YOU DOMESTIC DISSENT! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 36,586	__________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

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11-14-2009, 10:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,518	Our president should bow to NO ONE! He is not subservient to anyone. He is the one in the highest position of our country and to show subservience to another country makes a huge political statement, and not one we should be proud of. This is very discouraging

11-14-2009, 10:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
kokonut Strength: a state of mind Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 9,501	Another aspect of Obama's own "sorry and bash America tour."

11-14-2009, 10:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
kokonut Strength: a state of mind Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 9,501	And at the same time you can't wonder if Japan is paying a compliment or an insult with their new "Obama toilet paper." LMAO!! Insult or compliment? There is Obama toilet paper in Japan... on Twitpic Out of curiousity I found another source of these "special" toilet paper rolls you can buy from. Barack Obama Toilet Paper Of course, we already had a Bush toilet paper. GEORGE W. BUSH TOILET PAPER Fair game I suppose. Though great Obama gag gift for friends and families?

11-14-2009, 11:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 5,036	Isn't it a "custom" in Japan?....Inasmuch as the USA, usually shaking hands....and when meeting the Pope, kissing his hand? Many other countries have their own customs. My guess is that it's customary and a show of respect towards the country's leader. I'm sure if I met our own President, I would not say "Yo, how's it hanging?".....Dunno what to make of this thread.....

11-14-2009, 11:36 AM	#6 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,518	rockin'robin, while I understand what you are saying, it is the level of the bow that indicates more than simply respect. The lower you bow, the more subservient you are claiming to be to the one you are bowing before.

11-14-2009, 12:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,518	And Jiro, you should care how we are presenting ourselves to other countries.

11-14-2009, 12:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,518	respect is one thing, self-degradation is another

11-14-2009, 12:32 PM	#20 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,518	Miss Manners: "One does not bow or curtsy to a foreign monarch because the gesture symbolizes recognition of her power over her subjects."

11-14-2009, 12:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,518	If it were merely a greeting, it would only involve a nod of the head, not a full body contortion. Being from a "bowing" culture, you should know that. There is nothing ignorant or bigoted about this discussion. To imply that is just playing the "race card."

11-14-2009, 12:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
Royale Eek Doggah! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: World's Second Coldest Capital City! Posts: 3,161	It is important to show a respect to those Japanese people as a courtesy.

11-14-2009, 12:42 PM	#30 (permalink)
netrox Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 3,559	Oh brother! Obama is just being respectful and he had to bow really low to their level (they're short, you know?) . It's about respect. If you act cocky and think you should be "above" them, then you've got no manners.