Shooting at Ft Hood; 7 dead, 20+wounded - Page 5

Lighthouse77 · 11-08-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

Why do people assume that all Muslims invoke the "Praise Allah" stuff, then go on murderous rampages? I mean, there have certainly been Christians that have uttered "Forgive me Father" before they killed someone. Why is it that when a Muslim does it, he is killing FOR his religion?

I personally cannot see this thread staying open with rhetoric based on words uttered by a madman. We will keep coming back to HIS religion.

I call it a racist tendency.

people already do that as far as christians. That when a christian does something awful, people immediately blame his religion. Sad but true.

souggy · 11-08-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

I don't understand why we have politics but we can't discuss religion. It's hard to discuss it when some things go hand in hand .. why don't you shut down politics as well?

Because regardless of what we profess to believe in, it still boil down to the human elements. People still kill. People still steal. People still lie. They just justify it in their own means..

Like I said, it's easy to cite anything or take anything out of context to justify your own actions. That's why we have secular laws, so people don't fudge it with religion.

Lighthouse77 · 11-08-2009, 10:43 PM

no, but when politic talk about homeschooling and such.. I do NOT want a secular law that require all kids to go to public school. People have to speak on their religious behalf why they should have the rights to homeschool. I do not want blindfold on people's religious beliefs.

**Jiro** · 11-08-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

because some people are too blind to see what is right in front of their faces

says a kettle....

souggy · 11-08-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

no, but when politic talk about homeschooling and such.. I do NOT want a secular law that require all kids to go to public school. People have to speak on their religious behalf why they should have the rights to homeschool. I do not want blindfold on people's religious beliefs.

That's why we claim "freedom of religion" when we don't want to subject kids to that. There is a clause for that, and people DO use it. I means... take a look at Lancaster....

Lighthouse77 · 11-08-2009, 10:48 PM

secular can be a belief on it own anyway. Not many people don't want secular law forced on them because some of the laws can go against their beliefs.

jillio · 11-08-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

Why do people assume that all Muslims invoke the "Praise Allah" stuff, then go on murderous rampages? I mean, there have certainly been Christians that have uttered "Forgive me Father" before they killed someone. Why is it that when a Muslim does it, he is killing FOR his religion?

I personally cannot see this thread staying open with rhetoric based on words uttered by a madman. We will keep coming back to HIS religion.

I call it a racist tendency.

Some make that assumption out of ignorance. Others make that assumption because of an irrational fear of what they do not know. Some are simply racist bigots looking for someone who is a bit different to point a finger at. Create enough attention toward the Muslims, and no one is looking at the wrongs committed by the Christians.

jillio · 11-08-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

secular can be a belief on it own anyway. Not many people don't want secular law forced on them because some of the laws can go against their beliefs.

Secular law is not founded on a religious principle or doctrine. It is religiously neutral.

**deafskeptic** · 11-09-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Psychiatrists can have mental health and "wrong thinking" issues. Hasan should have taken heed to "physician, heal thyself."

I know. I remember there was a thread about a psychiartrist who clearly had a severe case of ocd (hoarding) a few weeks ago. But that's not my point here.

I'd have said the same thing about others regardless of their professions who helped others by doing charities. If I had known someone like John Wayne Gacey before his crimes were discovered but only on a superfical basis, my reaction would have been the same. He often dressed as a clown to entertain children at hospitals and worked with the Jaycees to make the world a better place. I would have had a difficult time reconciling a caring clown with the guy who murdered and buried people in his crawl space.

**Maria** · 11-09-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Some make that assumption out of ignorance. Others make that assumption because of an irrational fear of what they do not know. Some are simply racist bigots looking for someone who is a bit different to point a finger at. Create enough attention toward the Muslims, and no one is looking at the wrongs committed by the Christians.

That's because, Muslims are growin' than before and no one is payin' attention to Christians much anymore. They don't label Christians as "terrorists" as we've read/heard of. Only Muslims they labeled them as "terrorists", because of 9/11 -- everythin' changed ever since that day. No body is interested in Christians, but them ( Muslims ).....

dogmom · 11-09-2009, 08:03 AM

it is totally a very sad thing....and saying someone "shouldn't" serve or do
"whatever" as I have read on here is just as sad and hurtful...let us not go down the slope of hatred, too-

kokonut · 11-09-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

It is not known whether the intelligence agencies informed the Army that one of its officers was seeking to connect with suspected al Qaeda figures, the officials said.

One senior lawmaker said the CIA had, so far, refused to brief the intelligence committees on what, if any, knowledge they had about Hasan’s efforts.

Quote:

A fellow Army doctor who studied with Hasan, Val Finell, told ABC News, “We would frequently say he was a Muslim first and an American second. And that came out in just about everything he did at the University.

Finell said he and other Army doctors complained to superiors about Hasan’s statements.

“And we questioned how somebody could take an oath of office…be an officer in the military and swear allegiance to the constitution and to defend America against all enemies, foreign and domestic and have that type of conflict,” Finell told ABC News.

Yet at the same time we have an imam with whom Hasan associated and had his own ties to the 9/11 terrorists called Hasan a “hero,” a “man of conscience” who successfully resolved his own inner conflict of being Muslim and a member of the American armed forces. This happened once in Kuwait and it happened again just recently with the same deadly result with both men who were conflicted with their Muslim identity and going against their own own to serve and protect America. These things simply need to be contained and completely removed from such a situation.
Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News
Fort Hood shooting: Texas army killer linked to September 11 terrorists - Telegraph

**sallylou** · 11-09-2009, 09:31 AM

If that's true, then Muslims have their own version of David Koresh. So what does that prove? I'd hate for people to base their opinion of Christianity based on someone like Jerry Falwell. He certainly doesn't represent all Christians. This imam doesn't represent all Muslims.

kokonut · 11-09-2009, 09:41 AM

Not the same thing. This is fratricide in an entirely different set of situation and scenario. Contacting al Qaeda sure didn't help. Only thing is they have their loyalty placed above and beyond elsewhere and not of the oath they took upon becoming a military member. This will happen again.

**sallylou** · 11-09-2009, 09:43 AM

Unfortunately, mass shootings are part of our lives now.

kokonut · 11-09-2009, 09:46 AM

So, it's best to try and contain these things into the future by eliminating/reducing such chances.

**saywhatkid** · 11-09-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

If that's true, then Muslims have their own version of David Koresh. So what does that prove? I'd hate for people to base their opinion of Christianity based on someone like Jerry Falwell. He certainly doesn't represent all Christians. This imam doesn't represent all Muslims.

Well said. We could make claims about televangelists being representative of Christianity, but that is wrong; same as saying Muslims are terrorists based on a small portion of them that really are. Most Muslims are very peaceful, just as any other group. It is the bad apples that make the news.

kokonut · 11-09-2009, 10:03 AM

Yet I don't see a massive outcry by Muslims condemning these acts whenever these things happen. And they do happen often against our own.

**sallylou** · 11-09-2009, 10:17 AM

Alleged shooter's name prompts response from American Muslims - CNN.com

We're have a rash of cases in which a man shoots his whole family then commits suicide lately. It seems like the world has gone crazy.

kokonut · 11-09-2009, 10:26 AM

Detroit imam urged use of force to start a new society | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

Eve · 11-09-2009, 10:43 AM

whatcha wanna bet we see a surge in the number of muslims enlisting in our armed forces now?

11-09-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Yet I don't see a massive outcry by Muslims condemning these acts whenever these things happen. And they do happen often against our own.

Here is just one story. I'm sure I can find more.

Quote:

Source: Alleged shooter's name prompts response from American Muslims - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- Ibrahim Hooper knows the drill.

When news first broke Thursday that a shooting at Fort Hood, Texas, killed and injured U.S. soldiers, the national communications director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations wrote a statement of condemnation.

He only sent it out later, when reports emerged that the alleged shooter's name was Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.

"As soon as we saw what appeared to be a Muslim name, we issued our statement," Hooper said. "Until that time, we were praying that no Muslim would be involved."

That's the reality of crisis management for the Muslim-American community, said Hooper, who handles communications for the nation's largest Muslim civil rights and advocacy group.

Even without confirmation that the alleged gunman was Muslim -- there was no immediate determination of any religious affiliation for Hasan -- the mere reporting of a possible Muslim name required an immediate comment, he said.

"That's unfortunately the world we live in nowadays," Hooper said. "So often, Muslims are accused of not condemning these kind of acts."

The CAIR statement said: "No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer Army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured."

Interactive: Shooting at Fort Hood In a separate statement, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, based in Los Angeles, California, condemned what it called the "heinous incident."

"We are in contact with law enforcement and U.S. federal government officials to gain more facts from this tragic incident and work together in dealing with its aftermath," the group said.

Its statement called on "all members of American Muslim communities to be in contact with local law enforcement for the safety and security of their communities and their institutions."

The Islamic Information Center also issued a statement "in conjunction with all the major Muslim organizations nationwide" that condemned the attack.

"While several news reports have cited one of the gunmen to be Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, IIC strongly emphasizes that this attack and its perpetrator are in no way representative of the Muslim people or the peace-loving religion of Islam," the statement said.

"The individuals who perpetrated this attack blatantly acted against the teachings of Islam and humanity," it added.

After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States, Muslim-Americans reported increased attacks and threats by revenge-minded non-Muslims.

"We've seen this before," Hooper said of a possible backlash. "Whenever there's an incident of this type, there's always the possibility this will happen."

Even non-Muslims could be targeted, he said, noting that Sikhs who wear turbans or Hispanic-Americans can be mistaken as being of Middle Eastern descent.

On Thursday night, CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad told a news conference the alleged Fort Hood attacker's motive remained unknown.

"We urge all Americans to remain calm in reaction to this tragic event and to demonstrate once again what is best about America -- our nation's ability to remain unified even in times of crisis," Awad said. "We urge national political and religious leaders and media professionals to set a tone of calm and unity.

"Unfortunately, based on past experience, we also urge American Muslims, and those who may be perceived to be Muslim, to take appropriate precautions to protect themselves, their families and their religious institutions from possible backlash."

11-09-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

whatcha wanna bet we see a surge in the number of muslims enlisting in our armed forces now?

For what purpose do you believe that will happen?

**Jiro** · 11-09-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Yet I don't see a massive outcry by Muslims condemning these acts whenever these things happen. And they do happen often against our own.

here you go

Muslim, Arab Groups Condemn Fort Hood Shooting, Brace For Backlash

Quote:

"We like to give people the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to being a reactionary thing," said Leigh O'Neill, director of government relations for the organization. "But there is a lot of hate out there and hate is hate. It is bipartisan and doesn't have geographic balance. We feel terrible for the victims today. And I wish people will understand when crime is crime and terrorism is terrorism."

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a civil liberties organization for American Muslims, was, meanwhile, working fast to get ahead of a potential rise in anti-Muslim sentiment. The group was set to host a press conference at 8 p.m. on Thursday evening to condemn the attacks and "urge calm" in the aftermath of the shooting.

Arabs and Muslims condemn Fort Hood attack

Quote:

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) and Congress of Arab American Organizations (CAAO) released statements condemning the attacks Thursday.

"Arab Americans are as devastated about those killed and wounded and their families as all other Americans are," said Osama Siblani, publisher of The Arab American News and spokesman of CAAO. "We stand with President Obama in condemning this horrific incidence of violence."

Siblani said Americans should wait for facts surrounding the case to emerge before drawing any conclusions about the incident.

"We ask all to remember that when people commit crimes, they do so not because of their religion or culture, but in spite of their religious and cultural upbringing," Siblani said.

ADC President Mary Rose Oakar said "This attack is absolutely deplorable. ADC has been consistent and on record in condemning any attacks aimed at innocents, no matter who the victims or the perpetrators may be. Such violence is morally reprehensible and has nothing to do with any religion, race, ethnicity, or national origin. ADC urges the FBI and law enforcement agencies to make every effort to see that justice is served.

"ADC also calls upon law enforcement agencies to provide immediate protection for all mosques, community centers, schools, and any locations that may be identified or misidentified with being Arab, Muslim, South Asian or Sikh as a clear backlash has already started. The actions of a few should not invite a backlash on innocent members of any community and we urge law enforcement and others to keep that in mind."

CAIR spokespeople said "We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law.

"No religious or political ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence.

"The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured."

We're appalled too by Fort Hood killer Nidal Malik Hasan, so don't target us: Muslim groups

Quote:

"Such violence is morally reprehensible and has nothing to do with any religion, race, ethnicity or national origin," said Mary Rose Oakar, president of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations added its voice to the denunciations of Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's rampage, calling it a "cowardly attack."

"No religious or political ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer Army that protects our nation," the group said.

don't hate Muslims or Islam religion or imans. Condemn this coward. His name is Major Nidal Malik Hasan.

**Jiro** · 11-09-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Detroit imam urged use of force to start a new society | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

and what does that have to do with this thread?

**Jiro** · 11-09-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallylou

Unfortunately, mass shootings are part of our lives now.

unfortunately yes but it's not so bad compared to other countries which receive suicide bombing and mass shooting on frequent basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

So, it's best to try and contain these things into the future by eliminating/reducing such chances.

yes.... most importantly - to not be racist and bigoted.

**Jiro** · 11-09-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

That's because, Muslims are growin' than before and no one is payin' attention to Christians much anymore. They don't label Christians as "terrorists" as we've read/heard of. Only Muslims they labeled them as "terrorists", because of 9/11 -- everythin' changed ever since that day. No body is interested in Christians, but them ( Muslims ).....

of course! that's how fear-mongering right-wingers want you to think! They make you pay more attention on Muslims than our internal problem - the domestic dissents. Look at you - you fell for it. So did million of others. Because of that - we pay much less attention and resource on our domestic terrorists. That is a major security threat. I'm gravely concerned. Our law enforcement and intelligence resource are stretched thin and wasted on oversea Islamic fundamentalists when they have no direct access to America to cause damage. We need our men & women back to duty here in America to protect us from domestic terrorists, not foreign terrorists.

Look at the history since 1990's. Compare the number of terrorist attacks in USA committed by domestic dissents (non-Muslim people) to number of terrorist attacks committed by Islamic terrorists. You will be very surprised.... VERY surprised.

Eve · 11-09-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

For what purpose do you believe that will happen?

It's obviously an effective means for terrorism on American soil. Best part is, it can be used over and over again because the liberal masses are hell-bent on painting it over as the deranged action of one man.

btw, Jiro, I think those "special ed. sunglasses" are affecting your vision. Or are you always this blinded to the truth?

**Jiro** · 11-09-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

It's obviously an effective means for terrorism on American soil. Best part is, it can be used over and over again because the liberal masses are hell-bent on painting it over as the deranged action of one man.

btw, Jiro, I think those "special ed. sunglasses" are affecting your vision. Or are you always this blinded to the truth?

I'm only blind to "truth" spouted by a racist bigot

what did you say again?

kokonut · 11-09-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

whatcha wanna bet we see a surge in the number of muslims enlisting in our armed forces now?

I wonder what the stats are like now and then?

11-08-2009, 10:43 PM	#123 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	no, but when politic talk about homeschooling and such.. I do NOT want a secular law that require all kids to go to public school. People have to speak on their religious behalf why they should have the rights to homeschool. I do not want blindfold on people's religious beliefs. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

11-08-2009, 10:48 PM	#126 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	secular can be a belief on it own anyway. Not many people don't want secular law forced on them because some of the laws can go against their beliefs. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

11-09-2009, 09:31 AM	#133 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	If that's true, then Muslims have their own version of David Koresh. So what does that prove? I'd hate for people to base their opinion of Christianity based on someone like Jerry Falwell. He certainly doesn't represent all Christians. This imam doesn't represent all Muslims. __________________

11-09-2009, 09:43 AM	#135 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Unfortunately, mass shootings are part of our lives now. __________________

11-09-2009, 10:17 AM	#139 (permalink)
sallylou Potterhead and Janeite Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 6,653	Alleged shooter's name prompts response from American Muslims - CNN.com We're have a rash of cases in which a man shoots his whole family then commits suicide lately. It seems like the world has gone crazy. __________________

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11-09-2009, 08:03 AM	#131 (permalink)
dogmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5,475	it is totally a very sad thing....and saying someone "shouldn't" serve or do "whatever" as I have read on here is just as sad and hurtful...let us not go down the slope of hatred, too-

11-09-2009, 09:41 AM	#134 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Not the same thing. This is fratricide in an entirely different set of situation and scenario. Contacting al Qaeda sure didn't help. Only thing is they have their loyalty placed above and beyond elsewhere and not of the oath they took upon becoming a military member. This will happen again.

11-09-2009, 09:46 AM	#136 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	So, it's best to try and contain these things into the future by eliminating/reducing such chances.

11-09-2009, 10:03 AM	#138 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Yet I don't see a massive outcry by Muslims condemning these acts whenever these things happen. And they do happen often against our own.

11-09-2009, 10:26 AM	#140 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Detroit imam urged use of force to start a new society \| freep.com \| Detroit Free Press

11-09-2009, 10:43 AM	#141 (permalink)
Eve Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,518	whatcha wanna bet we see a surge in the number of muslims enlisting in our armed forces now?

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