Stop Blaming Racism for the Failure of Black Parents

rockin'robin · 10-23-2009, 02:42 PM

Los Angeles – Growing youth violence in the United States will not be resolved until we find the moral courage to address the racial issues that underlie it.

During a Chicago school visit earlier this month to the site where a black honor student was beaten to death by a mob of black students, Attorney General Eric Holder stated that growing youth violence in America is not just "a black problem," but a problem for all races. The trouble with this statement is that it is statistically untrue.

Youth violence may not be solely a black problem, but it is primarily a black problem.

Consider, by race, the contributing factors of prison incarceration and school suspension. Blacks are imprisoned and suspended three times more frequently than the rest of the US population, and as much as six times more frequently than their white, Asian, and Latino counterparts.

The question is not whether young blacks, particularly males, get involved in violent incidents more frequently than other races. The question is why.

White and black liberals blame this disparity on a racist society that misinterprets and discriminates against black culture.

White and black conservatives explain these statistics as the result of less respect for the law, caused solely by poor parenting. They cite as proof that high-achieving blacks have been well-parented.

This is not a new problem. Consider a memo written in 1965 to President Lyndon Johnson from Assistant Labor Secretary Daniel Moynihan in which the secretary expressed his great concern over the high rate of out-of-wedlock births among blacks (25 percent at that time). Unaddressed, Mr. Moynihan predicted, this large number of fatherless children would result in increasing school failure, criminal delinquency, and joblessness. Sadly, because liberals across the board condemned this call for action as racist propaganda, President Johnson didn't want to risk heated public debate and so did nothing.

The recent Chicago incident, and countless others that occur daily, are the result of not heeding Moynihan's warning 44 years ago. The previous out-of-wedlock birthrate has almost tripled, and 7 out of 10 black children now grow up not only without a father, but also in disproportionate poverty. That means millions of young kids lack adequate parental guidance to make the transition to become successful adults.

So of course unparented black kids act up and get in trouble more. Any racial group would do the same. The starting point for reducing our nation's youth violence must begin at home. We need our elected public officials to acknowledge this.

President Obama – himself black, well-parented, and successful – has a unique opportunity to start reducing youth violence by addressing this key issue. The president needs to condemn the disparity in out-of-wedlock birthrates and antisocial behavior between black youth and their peers of other races. He needs to specifically address the habit of blaming racism alone for the failure to instill proper behavior in black children.

A specific call for black parental accountability would be a strong first step in avoiding future tragedies like the one in Chicago.

Paul D. White is a career public educator from Ventura, Calif., and the author of "White's Rules – Saving Our Youth One Kid at a Time."

Stop blaming racism for the failure of black parents - Yahoo! News

yizuman · 10-23-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

During a Chicago school visit earlier this month to the site where a black honor student was beaten to death by a mob of black students

He was beaten maybe because he was a smart black person and the mob thought he's not black enough because he's too smart and labeled as a "Uncle Tom"?

This isn't the first time I've heard of this, Bill Cosby addressed that issue 2 years ago.

So did Clarance Thomas of the US Supreme Court Justice.

There's nothing wrong with being smart, but the mob that killed the honor student must've thought otherwise.

Yiz

jillio · 10-23-2009, 02:58 PM

From the OP:

White and black conservatives explain these statistics as the result of less respect for the law, caused solely by poor parenting. They cite as proof that high-achieving blacks have been well-parented.

Black and white conservatives would do well to study a little sociology.

sallylou · 10-23-2009, 03:00 PM

Violence is not "a black problem." Violence is a problem for our society in general. The Columbine shooters were white kids from affluent families. Women's shelters are full of abused women of all colors. All of us have to take responsibility for the violent culture that we live in. The culture of domination/submission dictates that there will be victors and victims. Add hate and guns and it's dangerous.

Bottesini · 10-23-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

From the OP:

White and black conservatives explain these statistics as the result of less respect for the law, caused solely by poor parenting. They cite as proof that high-achieving blacks have been well-parented.

Black and white conservatives would do well to study a little sociology.

If they did, wouldn't they find out that that is the absolute truth, but applies exactly equally to white youth gone wrong?

jillio · 10-23-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

If they did, wouldn't they find out that that is the absolute truth, but applies exactly equally to white youth gone wrong?

Well, actually, no on the absolute truth that poor parenting is responsible, and yes on the fact that white youth gone wrong are equally responsible. There are actually numerous factors involved, including SES of the family, disporportionate incarceration of minority men, disproportionate opportunity, living environment, etc. All but the incarceration rates can be applied to white youths as well as minority youths when looking at violence rates. However, when you include SES, white men in lower SES are incarcerated disproportionately as well, so it will still hold up.

Even the most devoted parent can end up with a child that steps outside the law when all the factors are considered.

Bottesini · 10-23-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Well, actually, no on the absolute truth that poor parenting is responsible, and yes on the fact that white youth gone wrong are equally responsible. There are actually numerous factors involved, including SES of the family, disporportionate incarceration of minority men, disproportionate opportunity, living environment, etc. All but the incarceration rates can be applied to white youths as well as minority youths when looking at violence rates. However, when you include SES, white men in lower SES are incarcerated disproportionately as well, so it will still hold up.

Even the most devoted parent can end up with a child that steps outside the law when all the factors are considered.

So if you did it as a socioeconomic study, then rates would be the same for all races? I hope.

jillio · 10-23-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

So if you did it as a socioeconomic study, then rates would be the same for all races? I hope.

Approximately the same, yes. But since we have a disproportionate number of minorities in the lower SES category, it will still show a slight rise in minorities. But that isn't due to poor parenting, but to the disproportionate income levels. Per capita, it would be equal.

Bottesini · 10-23-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Approximately the same, yes. But since we have a disproportionate number of minorities in the lower SES category, it will still show a slight rise in minorities. But that isn't due to poor parenting, but to the disproportionate income levels. Per capita, it would be equal.

I thought so!

yizuman · 10-23-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Well, actually, no on the absolute truth that poor parenting is responsible

What you mean by that? If a parent or parents if you will, fails to teach a child right from wrong and fails to teach a child about respect, what is the end formula then?

Also bad parents sets a bad example for bad children, they copy what they see. Kids are very impressionable.

Yiz

jillio · 10-23-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

What you mean by that? If a parent or parents if you will, fails to teach a child right from wrong and fails to teach a child about respect, what is the end formula then?

Also bad parents sets a bad example for bad children, they copy what they see. Kids are very impressionable.

Yiz

I mean exactly what I said. You are coming at the topic from too narrow a perspective. There are any number of factors that influence parenting. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "good" or "bad" parenting.

If you think that parents are the only influence on a child's life and choices, you are sadly mistaken. By the time that children are 12 years old, peers have a much greater influence on their choices than parents do. The wider society influences that child's decision from the time they are born.

Reba · 10-23-2009, 03:54 PM

I don't believe poverty is the reason for crime. I believe crime can make poverty worse, and poor victims have fewer resources to protect themselves from criminals. But poverty itself doesn't cause crime. There are many, many poor people who are hard working, honest, ethical, good citizens, and nurturing parents. There are also wealthy people who are mean spirited, dishonest, lazy, hedonistic, and horrible parents. Bottom line is, there are good and bad parents at all economic levels.

Income level might influence the type of crime one gets involved in. It might also determine how the caught criminal gets prosecuted. But it's not the cause of the crime.

yizuman · 10-23-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I mean exactly what I said. You are coming at the topic from too narrow a perspective. There are any number of factors that influence parenting. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "good" or "bad" parenting.

If you think that parents are the only influence on a child's life and choices, you are sadly mistaken. By the time that children are 12 years old, peers have a much greater influence on their choices than parents do. The wider society influences that child's decision from the time they are born.

Well I find that to be true, thus the reason why my sister is homeschooling her kids instead, to avoid the kind of bad influence that may be prevalent in schools. In fact, they're learning far more than what the schools normally provides.

But they do get alot of social structures because for one, they go to church, so they get Sunday School classes and also various activities they get involved with other kids, arts & crafts, horse riding classes, reading specials at the libraries, music lessons, etc. The kids stays very busy during school year.

The kids are doing very well.

Yiz

jillio · 10-23-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I don't believe poverty is the reason for crime. I believe crime can make poverty worse, and poor victims have fewer resources to protect themselves from criminals. But poverty itself doesn't cause crime. There are many, many poor people who are hard working, honest, ethical, good citizens, and nurturing parents. There are also wealthy people who are mean spirited, dishonest, lazy, hedonistic, and horrible parents. Bottom line is, there are good and bad parents at all economic levels.

Income level might influence the type of crime one gets involved in. It might also determine how the caught criminal gets prosecuted. But it's not the cause of the crime.

According to the sociological research available on the topic, you have cause and effect reversed.

jillio · 10-23-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

Well I find that to be true, thus the reason why my sister is homeschooling her kids instead, to avoid the kind of bad influence that may be prevalent in schools. In fact, they're learning far more than what the schools normally provides.

But they do get alot of social structures because for one, they go to church, so they get Sunday School classes and also various activities they get involved with other kids, arts & crafts, horse riding classes, reading specials at the libraries, music lessons, etc. The kids stays very busy during school year.

The kids are doing very well.

Yiz

And what about when they become adults, are no longer under your sister's control, and have not had the opportunity to learn the social skills necessary to avoid peer influence?

yizuman · 10-23-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And what about when they become adults, are no longer under your sister's control, and have not had the opportunity to learn the social skills necessary to avoid peer influence?

Oh my sis is aware of that she is working with them to ensure they do get the skills. Plus they sit down and talk about it, a lot. Plenty of communication regarding that topic. Sis is very open to share her life's experiences and answers a lot of questions, even if they are personal or embarrassing experiences that she had growing up.

Yiz

whatdidyousay! · 10-23-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

What you mean by that? If a parent or parents if you will, fails to teach a child right from wrong and fails to teach a child about respect, what is the end formula then?

Also bad parents sets a bad example for bad children, they copy what they see. Kids are very impressionable.

Yiz

I was abused by my dad , dad was abused by his dad etc. I was finally able to break this abusive patten with my daugther . I had to keep myself from getting angry at my child and hitting her. And I was able to do it! My daughter is now a mother and has her own child .I have stopped the cycle of abuse and now have a beautiful 4 years old granddaugter and she has a mother that love her and does not abuse her! I did not copy my dad abusive behavior! I do not buy that crap about not being able to stop the abusive
cycle!

shel90 · 10-23-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

What you mean by that? If a parent or parents if you will, fails to teach a child right from wrong and fails to teach a child about respect, what is the end formula then?

Also bad parents sets a bad example for bad children, they copy what they see. Kids are very impressionable.

Yiz

I have a brother who has been in and out of jail for voilence, drugs and etc. He was raised in an upper class family in which his mom stayed home and my dad worked hard to provide all the luxuries he and my other 3 brothers got growing up. Sometimes, even too much of everything can lead children in the wrong path. My stepmom and dad were good parents but gave their boys too much, I think.

shel90 · 10-23-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I mean exactly what I said. You are coming at the topic from too narrow a perspective. There are any number of factors that influence parenting. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "good" or "bad" parenting.

If you think that parents are the only influence on a child's life and choices, you are sadly mistaken. By the time that children are 12 years old, peers have a much greater influence on their choices than parents do. The wider society influences that child's decision from the time they are born.

That was so true in my brother's case.

shel90 · 10-23-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

Well I find that to be true, thus the reason why my sister is homeschooling her kids instead, to avoid the kind of bad influence that may be prevalent in schools. In fact, they're learning far more than what the schools normally provides.

But they do get alot of social structures because for one, they go to church, so they get Sunday School classes and also various activities they get involved with other kids, arts & crafts, horse riding classes, reading specials at the libraries, music lessons, etc. The kids stays very busy during school year.

The kids are doing very well.

Yiz

I am glad that the kids are doing well.

However, not all homeschooled kids come away unscathed. I know of a few of them who committed crime in their late teens and early 20s.

I agree with Reba and Jillio..too many factors can lead children to committing voilent crimes.

Steel X · 10-23-2009, 08:18 PM

Violence isn't a black problem? Gee, and I guess the neo nazis think what they do isn't violence related.

This is pretty stupid. Violence happens to EVERYONE and EVERYWHERE.

jillio · 10-23-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

I was abused by my dad , dad was abused by his dad etc. I was finally able to break this abusive patten with my daugther . I had to keep myself from getting angry at my child and hitting her. And I was able to do it! My daughter is now a mother and has her own child .I have stopped the cycle of abuse and now have a beautiful 4 years old granddaugter and she has a mother that love her and does not abuse her! I did not copy my dad abusive behavior! I do not buy that crap about not being able to stop the abusive
cycle!

I know how difficult it is to stop that cycle. I applaud you for having the strength and the insight to put an end to the cycle when you became a parent. Kudos to you!

jillio · 10-23-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

Oh my sis is aware of that she is working with them to ensure they do get the skills. Plus they sit down and talk about it, a lot. Plenty of communication regarding that topic. Sis is very open to share her life's experiences and answers a lot of questions, even if they are personal or embarrassing experiences that she had growing up.

Yiz

Sounds like your sister is doing her best.

jillio · 10-23-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That was so true in my brother's case.

And even when you think you are protecting them from negative influences, they still manage to get through. Those influences are everywhere. You would have to raise a child in a bubble to completely avoid them. The best we can do is process and talk about those experiences and those influences with our kids. Help them develop the skills they need to avoid them, and help them to develop the reasoning to think things all the way through. And even then, in cases like your brother, it is not enough.

Reba · 10-23-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yizuman

Oh my sis is aware of that she is working with them to ensure they do get the skills. Plus they sit down and talk about it, a lot. Plenty of communication regarding that topic. Sis is very open to share her life's experiences and answers a lot of questions, even if they are personal or embarrassing experiences that she had growing up.

Yiz

Right. Just because kids go to public schools doesn't mean they learn how to resist peer pressure any better than home schooled kids do.

Of course, all children (and adults) have free will, so the ultimate responsibility to make right choices is with each one.

Reba · 10-23-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I have a brother who has been in and out of jail for voilence, drugs and etc. He was raised in an upper class family in which his mom stayed home and my dad worked hard to provide all the luxuries he and my other 3 brothers got growing up. Sometimes, even too much of everything can lead children in the wrong path. My stepmom and dad were good parents but gave their boys too much, I think.

How did the other boys turn out?

jillio · 10-23-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Right. Just because kids go to public schools doesn't mean they learn how to resist peer pressure any better than home schooled kids do.

Of course, all children (and adults) have free will, so the ultimate responsibility to make right choices is with each one.

I don't see where anyone stated or implied that attending public school was directly correlated to resisting peer pressure. There are numerous factors involved.

shel90 · 10-23-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And even when you think you are protecting them from negative influences, they still manage to get through. Those influences are everywhere. You would have to raise a child in a bubble to completely avoid them. The best we can do is process and talk about those experiences and those influences with our kids. Help them develop the skills they need to avoid them, and help them to develop the reasoning to think things all the way through. And even then, in cases like your brother, it is not enough.

No, it wasnt...in this case, it was due to a mental illness. My stepmom and dad spent thousands and thousands of dollars on all kinds of therapy and intervention for him as a child. Nothing worked.

jillio · 10-23-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

No, it wasnt...in this case, it was due to a mental illness. My stepmom and dad spent thousands and thousands of dollars on all kinds of therapy and intervention for him as a child. Nothing worked.

Yes. It sounds like they were fighting a battle against a particuar personality disorder for which the prognosis is very, very poor. Your dad and your step mom certainly aren't to be blamed for that.

shel90 · 10-23-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yes. It sounds like they were fighting a battle against a particuar personality disorder for which the prognosis is very, very poor. Your dad and your step mom certainly aren't to be blamed for that.

Anyways, violence can be due to bad parenting, poverty, indulence, boredom, mental illness, addiction, abuse and so many more. How can the government tackle all these underlying issues to be able to reduce violence? It wont work if the govt picks one reason because there is no such thing.

10-23-2009, 02:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 2,787	Stop Blaming Racism for the Failure of Black Parents Los Angeles – Growing youth violence in the United States will not be resolved until we find the moral courage to address the racial issues that underlie it. During a Chicago school visit earlier this month to the site where a black honor student was beaten to death by a mob of black students, Attorney General Eric Holder stated that growing youth violence in America is not just "a black problem," but a problem for all races. The trouble with this statement is that it is statistically untrue. Youth violence may not be solely a black problem, but it is primarily a black problem. Consider, by race, the contributing factors of prison incarceration and school suspension. Blacks are imprisoned and suspended three times more frequently than the rest of the US population, and as much as six times more frequently than their white, Asian, and Latino counterparts. The question is not whether young blacks, particularly males, get involved in violent incidents more frequently than other races. The question is why. White and black liberals blame this disparity on a racist society that misinterprets and discriminates against black culture. White and black conservatives explain these statistics as the result of less respect for the law, caused solely by poor parenting. They cite as proof that high-achieving blacks have been well-parented. This is not a new problem. Consider a memo written in 1965 to President Lyndon Johnson from Assistant Labor Secretary Daniel Moynihan in which the secretary expressed his great concern over the high rate of out-of-wedlock births among blacks (25 percent at that time). Unaddressed, Mr. Moynihan predicted, this large number of fatherless children would result in increasing school failure, criminal delinquency, and joblessness. Sadly, because liberals across the board condemned this call for action as racist propaganda, President Johnson didn't want to risk heated public debate and so did nothing. The recent Chicago incident, and countless others that occur daily, are the result of not heeding Moynihan's warning 44 years ago. The previous out-of-wedlock birthrate has almost tripled, and 7 out of 10 black children now grow up not only without a father, but also in disproportionate poverty. That means millions of young kids lack adequate parental guidance to make the transition to become successful adults. So of course unparented black kids act up and get in trouble more. Any racial group would do the same. The starting point for reducing our nation's youth violence must begin at home. We need our elected public officials to acknowledge this. President Obama – himself black, well-parented, and successful – has a unique opportunity to start reducing youth violence by addressing this key issue. The president needs to condemn the disparity in out-of-wedlock birthrates and antisocial behavior between black youth and their peers of other races. He needs to specifically address the habit of blaming racism alone for the failure to instill proper behavior in black children. A specific call for black parental accountability would be a strong first step in avoiding future tragedies like the one in Chicago. Paul D. White is a career public educator from Ventura, Calif., and the author of "White's Rules – Saving Our Youth One Kid at a Time." Stop blaming racism for the failure of black parents - Yahoo! News

10-23-2009, 03:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
sallylou Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: My own private Idaho Posts: 2,098	Violence is not "a black problem." Violence is a problem for our society in general. The Columbine shooters were white kids from affluent families. Women's shelters are full of abused women of all colors. All of us have to take responsibility for the violent culture that we live in. The culture of domination/submission dictates that there will be victors and victims. Add hate and guns and it's dangerous. __________________ Happy holidays!

10-23-2009, 08:18 PM	#21 (permalink)
Steel X Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 13,081	Violence isn't a black problem? Gee, and I guess the neo nazis think what they do isn't violence related. This is pretty stupid. Violence happens to EVERYONE and EVERYWHERE. __________________

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10-23-2009, 02:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 32,396	From the OP: White and black conservatives explain these statistics as the result of less respect for the law, caused solely by poor parenting. They cite as proof that high-achieving blacks have been well-parented. Black and white conservatives would do well to study a little sociology.

10-23-2009, 03:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 20,803	I don't believe poverty is the reason for crime. I believe crime can make poverty worse, and poor victims have fewer resources to protect themselves from criminals. But poverty itself doesn't cause crime. There are many, many poor people who are hard working, honest, ethical, good citizens, and nurturing parents. There are also wealthy people who are mean spirited, dishonest, lazy, hedonistic, and horrible parents. Bottom line is, there are good and bad parents at all economic levels. Income level might influence the type of crime one gets involved in. It might also determine how the caught criminal gets prosecuted. But it's not the cause of the crime.