M. Savage calls Autistic children--BRATS! - Page 3

jillio · 07-25-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Another viewpoint:

Michael Savage Is Not The Problem | MND: News and Commentary Since 2001

And, once again, this is no more than the opinion of a man who has no knowledge or expertise in the area on which he is speaking. His ignorance regarding diagnositic procedure, and especially disorders themselves is obvious.

Yeah, kids don't have autism, and kids don't have ADD or ADHD.....despite the neurological evidence of both disorders. We just need to spend more time with them, and the disorder will go away. It is all the result of innatentive parents. Not only do attitudes like this do a disservice tothe diagnosed individual, but they are horribly insulting tothe parent of a child who has been diagnosed with a disorder. In effect, both Savage and this article are blaming the parents for the child's disorder. How insensitive is that? How productive is that?

jillio · 07-25-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

But it certainly brought the topic out in the open for discussion.

Yes it has. Fortunately, the majority have been able to see through his propoganda.

Liebling:-))) · 07-26-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote:

July 22, 2008
Autistic Children Are Not Brats

In the slightly more than five years of my son Jack's life I've called him a lot of things. I've called him a trouble-maker. I've called him adorable. I've called him loveable, joyful, and charismatic. I've also called him solitary, difficult, and autistic.

I have not, to my recollection, called him a brat.

Brat is a negative term that goes past discussing mere behavior all the way down to a child's core. And it is a hurtful term. Not as hurtful as some, but call any mother's child a brat, and that mother will be upset.

Enter radio talk show host Michael Savage. Last week he called autistic children brats on-air, saying, "In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out."

Savage, who has more than 8 million listeners a week, according to MSNBC, told his audience that these kids "don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron.'" He has also not issued an apology in a message posted on his website. The message states only that he meant to "boldly awaken" parents and children to an overdiagnosis of autism by a "cartel of doctors and drug companies."

As a mom of an autistic child (with a father who is just as strict with him as with our typical children), this kind of disinformation makes it that much harder for my autistic child to live in this world. It makes it harder for him to get the accommodations he needs. It makes it harder for him to achieve friendships. It makes it harder for him to gain respect, which he absolutely deserves.

I've never been a fan of Savage, but I am a fan of free speech. Should he be fired? Probably not. Should he be forced to put forth an apology? Not if he doesn't mean it.

Should the rest of us raise our voices to counteract the vitriol that people who don't understand put forth about our beautiful children? Should we work for more autism awareness? Should we take advantage of every opportunity to teach people what autism is—and what it isn't?

Yes. Yes. And yes.

It's as if Savage called quadriplegics lazy. It is just a blatantly false statement. Just because a disability is sometimes invisible does not mean it does not exist.

My son is autistic. My son is handsome, sweet, smart, cuddly, and sometimes misbehaved—just like any other five-year-old.

He is not a brat.

He is autistic.

And I love him exactly the way he is.

DC Metro Moms: Autistic Children Are Not Brats

That´s prefect post!!!

Liebling:-))) · 07-26-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And, once again, this is no more than the opinion of a man who has no knowledge or expertise in the area on which he is speaking. His ignorance regarding diagnositic procedure, and especially disorders themselves is obvious.

Yeah, kids don't have autism, and kids don't have ADD or ADHD.....despite the neurological evidence of both disorders. We just need to spend more time with them, and the disorder will go away. It is all the result of innatentive parents. Not only do attitudes like this do a disservice tothe diagnosed individual, but they are horribly insulting tothe parent of a child who has been diagnosed with a disorder. In effect, both Savage and this article are blaming the parents for the child's disorder. How insensitive is that? How productive is that?

I speak out of my experience because I myself have a ADD son. He is not a brat but ADD. We work together with therapies to help him and spend our time on him when he was a little boy. Now he is a teenager and his ADD behavior didn´t show for long time now. people really have no idea what they are saying...

Liebling:-))) · 07-26-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

And yet we still punish autistic children for all the manifestations of 'abnormality'... as we still punish deaf children for not hearing.

People like this, voices like this, just make the problem that much worse. To think of every parent in denial who will now have another advocate telling them to punish bad behaviors out of their child- as if it is not bad enough already, this man blindly supports the inhumane treatment he cannot know nor understand.

Aleser · 07-26-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It's the stereotypes and broad-brush diagnoses of "disabled" that he is against. Too many people get labeled "disabled", and then get caught up in a perpetual cycle of over medicating, segregation into special "programs", and dependence on "the government" for the solution to all of life's problems.

I repeat what I said re: your article's comment that non-autistic children misdiagnosed with autism have to go through the inhumane treatments for autistics. If a treatment or label is cruel, is offensive, is WRONG- why on earth is it an acceptable one for autistic folks? Are we lesser beings?

The stigma attached to being disabled has NOTHING to do with over-diagnosis of disabling conditions and everything to do with perspectives much like yours: that being 'disabled' (I love how you quote it) is somehow lesser than being able bodied.

I am 'disabled' and damn proud of it. I have never seen the inside of a special classroom- unless ivy league qualifies under your definition of special. I have never taken a single medication related to my autism, or indeed my associated 'bad behaviors' that result from it. I have never, despite also being deafblind, taken a cent worth of disability from the government. Most disabled people I know also have not.

It's not being disabled that's the problem- it's what people think being disabled has to mean.

dreama · 07-26-2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

I repeat what I said re: your article's comment that non-autistic children misdiagnosed with autism have to go through the inhumane treatments for autistics. If a treatment or label is cruel, is offensive, is WRONG- why on earth is it an acceptable one for autistic folks? Are we lesser beings?

The stigma attached to being disabled has NOTHING to do with over-diagnosis of disabling conditions and everything to do with perspectives much like yours: that being 'disabled' (I love how you quote it) is somehow lesser than being able bodied.

I am 'disabled' and damn proud of it. I have never seen the inside of a special classroom- unless ivy league qualifies under your definition of special. I have never taken a single medication related to my autism, or indeed my associated 'bad behaviors' that result from it. I have never, despite also being deafblind, taken a cent worth of disability from the government. Most disabled people I know also have not.

It's not being disabled that's the problem- it's what people think being disabled has to mean.

I agree totally. You are very lucky with your parents. Mine made the mistake of trying to correct the behavior rather then understand it. I don't blame them. Any more then I really blame them for taking the oral only path as regards to my deafness. They were misguided more then anything.

But Neither Deafblindness or Asperger syndrome is my biggest problem. I've also suffered from Mental health issues that means that employment is very difficult for me, or anyone else with mental health issues, to come by. So it's not the physical disability that makes people need to go on benifits. It's an attitude that the parent is obviously not 'strict enough' which is what my parents got throughout my childhood which pushed them over the top a little and caused me to have more mental health issues then would have otherwise been the case.

The only thing we would agree on is I don't think all these drugs are really good for Autistic children wether they are 'real' or not. I was put on a few myself to curb undesirable behavior when I was younger and they don't really help matters much so I don't recomend them at all.

jillio · 07-26-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

I repeat what I said re: your article's comment that non-autistic children misdiagnosed with autism have to go through the inhumane treatments for autistics. If a treatment or label is cruel, is offensive, is WRONG- why on earth is it an acceptable one for autistic folks? Are we lesser beings?

The stigma attached to being disabled has NOTHING to do with over-diagnosis of disabling conditions and everything to do with perspectives much like yours: that being 'disabled' (I love how you quote it) is somehow lesser than being able bodied.

I am 'disabled' and damn proud of it. I have never seen the inside of a special classroom- unless ivy league qualifies under your definition of special. I have never taken a single medication related to my autism, or indeed my associated 'bad behaviors' that result from it. I have never, despite also being deafblind, taken a cent worth of disability from the government. Most disabled people I know also have not.

It's not being disabled that's the problem- it's what people think being disabled has to mean.

Very well said. I fail to see how being labled a "brat" is any less stigmatizing than having a medical/psychological diagnosis. In my opinion, it is much more stigmatizing, and serves to encompass not just the child, but the parents, as well. Implied is that the parents are not parenting properly, or such behavior would not occur.

jillio · 07-26-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

I agree totally. You are very lucky with your parents. Mine made the mistake of trying to correct the behavior rather then understand it. I don't blame them. Any more then I really blame them for taking the oral only path as regards to my deafness. They were misguided more then anything.

But Neither Deafblindness or Asperger syndrome is my biggest problem. I've also suffered from Mental health issues that means that employment is very difficult for me, or anyone else with mental health issues, to come by. So it's not the physical disability that makes people need to go on benifits. It's an attitude that the parent is obviously not 'strict enough' which is what my parents got throughout my childhood which pushed them over the top a little and caused me to have more mental health issues then would have otherwise been the case.

The only thing we would agree on is I don't think all these drugs are really good for Autistic children wether they are 'real' or not. I was put on a few myself to curb undesirable behavior when I was younger and they don't really help matters much so I don't recomend them at all.

The trend toward meds is shifting. There is no medication that has been shown to be effective overall with autisitic chidlren. Therefore, unless the child has been diagnosed with a comorbid disorder, meds generally aren't prescribed for the Autism alone.

I, and many other professionals would agree with you. Punishing a child with autism for behaviors related to the disorder only serve to increase the behaviors and make them more severe. It simply reinforces their inability to connect with others and their view of the world as a confusing, often frightening place.

deafdyke · 07-27-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

"Autism is a devastating condition... for those who have it"

It is? Since when? By what right does the author speak for my feelings? To put this into perspective, how would you culturally Deaf folks feel if someone wrote "Deafness is devastating for those who have it."

Well, autism isn't devastating in the high functioning forms. However, it can be extremely devastating observing the day to day life of an severely autistic kid . Even some mild high functioning autistic kids have pretty awful lives. I wouldn't speak for ALL autistic kids.......and you know what? I really do think most "Asperger's/PDD nos is more like quirks rather then true classic autisim. The disorders really can't be compared.

deafskeptic · 07-27-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Well, autism isn't devastating in the high functioning forms. However, it can be extremely devastating observing the day to day life of an severely autistic kid . Even some mild high functioning autistic kids have pretty awful lives. I wouldn't speak for ALL autistic kids.......and you know what? I really do think most "Asperger's/PDD nos is more like quirks rather then true classic autisim. The disorders really can't be compared.

I would assume there are degrees of autisim just as there are degrees of deafness.

To say that those with hearing mild losses can't be compared to those with profound losses would be fallcious in much the same way asperger's is compared with classic autisim. Both those with Aspergers and those with the more classical austisim are autistic; it's only a matter of degree from what I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong.

deafskeptic · 07-27-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I speak out of my experience because I myself have a ADD son. He is not a brat but ADD. We work together with therapies to help him and spend our time on him when he was a little boy. Now he is a teenager and his ADD behavior didn´t show for long time now. people really have no idea what they are saying...

Indeed. I've had people - especially my father- tell me if i tried harder, I wouldn't lose things so often. No matter how hard I try, I will lose things more often than most people will. My father says I shouldn't need to have back ups but for those with ADD related organizal problems, backs up are are a necessisty. I always have a copy of my bank statement or other official document ready if I should misplace my driver's id nor do I keep all of my important papers together because losing all of them will make it difficult to prove that I actually exist!

This year I haven't lost my ATM card once. However, I doubt that my card will make it to the expiration date. I tend to lose such cards before before they expire. One year I lost my ATM card 13 times a year; I remember nearly losing my temper when the banker wanted to know how I could lose it so often.

jillio · 07-28-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

I would assume there are degrees of autisim just as there are degrees of deafness.

To say that those with hearing mild losses can't be compared to those with profound losses would be fallcious in much the same way asperger's is compared with classic autisim. Both those with Aspergers and those with the more classical austisim are autistic; it's only a matter of degree from what I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. Autism occurs on a spectrum. While to the unaffected, severe autism would appear to be more devastating than Asperger's, we can't look at it from the perspective of the unaffected. We must look at it fromt he subjective view of the person who has Autism. Functional limitation is subjective. To someone with Asperger's, the disorder has just as much a limiting effect on their life as the limiting effect of a more severe form would have for that individual.

Like your comparison, it is not degree. To elaborate on your comparison, a mild loss to an individual who attempts to function in a completely hearing oriented world has more functional limitation than the profoundly deaf since birth individual who uses accommodation to compensate for functional loss of hearing capacity. And because an individual with Asperger's shares the same cognitive, perceptive, and communication differences with someone with severe Autism, they indeed have more in common than either one of them have with a non-Autistic individual on those levels.

jillio · 07-28-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Indeed. I've had people - especially my father- tell me if i tried harder, I wouldn't lose things so often. No matter how hard I try, I will lose things more often than most people will. My father says I shouldn't need to have back ups but for those with ADD related organizal problems, backs up are are a necessisty. I always have a copy of my bank statement or other official document ready if I should misplace my driver's id nor do I keep all of my important papers together because losing all of them will make it difficult to prove that I actually exist!

This year I haven't lost my ATM card once. However, I doubt that my card will make it to the expiration date. I tend to lose such cards before before they expire. One year I lost my ATM card 13 times a year; I remember nearly losing my temper when the banker wanted to know how I could lose it so often.

That is not unusual at all, because your father, and most others, compare your aility to attend to detail to his ability to tend to detail. He, however, is not ADHD, and therefore, cannot compare your behavior to his behavior, except to see the differences. Another person with ADHD could easily understand the reasons that you loose your ATM card so often. And a person without ADHD can also understand, if, and this is a big if, they take an empathetic position, and see the situation from your unique perspective. If I am able to understand your "why", then I can address the problem from your perspective.

That is the reason that I spend so much time trying to gain insight into the deaf perspective. I cannot effectively advocate and assist my clients unless I understand what it is like for them to live as a deaf individual. To understand that, I have to ask them to explain it to me from the inside out, and then put my own experience as a hearing person aside in order to empatize and give credibility to their experience.

As a counselor, that is the very foundation of my work, and it has become the foundation of the way I live my life. I make every attempt to meet people where they are in life, not from where I am in life. Only then can I address issues with them effectively. The whole therapuetic realtionship is based on my ability to gain an emapthic understanding of the individual with whom I am working. Without that, no technique or theory will be successful in helping that individual to make the personal changes or gain the skills necessary to lead a more fulfilling life.

That approach works not only with the therapuetic realtionship, but with all relationships in all walks of life. People need to be heard and validated. It is a universal desire in all people.

Aleser · 07-28-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

However, it can be extremely devastating observing the day to day life of an severely autistic kid ..

Devastating to you, not necessarily to us. In this situation, it's the inside perspective that matters.. not the outside.

I flap my hands. One can easily say that most people find it distressing to see me sitting in a corner, rocking, flapping my hands, or otherwise stimming and not paying attention to them. Does it distress them? Maybe. Does it distress me? No. It feels good and calms me down, which is why I do it!

If I have something planned and it goes wrong, I get extremely upset. I can't always voice how or why I'm upset, so I scream and sometimes hit myself. That is how I cope with a reality that is scary and upsetting- and how I voice to others that I'm not comfortable. Distressing to others? Probably. Distressing to me? Yes, the situation is, but not how I express my frustration with it.

shel90 · 07-28-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

Devastating to you, not necessarily to us. In this situation, it's the inside perspective that matters.. not the outside.

I flap my hands. One can easily say that most people find it distressing to see me sitting in a corner, rocking, flapping my hands, or otherwise stimming and not paying attention to them. Does it distress them? Maybe. Does it distress me? No. It feels good and calms me down, which is why I do it!

If I have something planned and it goes wrong, I get extremely upset. I can't always voice how or why I'm upset, so I scream and sometimes hit myself. That is how I cope with a reality that is scary and upsetting- and how I voice to others that I'm not comfortable. Distressing to others? Probably. Distressing to me? Yes, the situation is, but not how I express my frustration with it.

Your perspective should be taken into consideration by the general public, educators and the medical community. I will definitely take it into consideration!

deafdyke · 07-28-2008, 07:12 PM

Quote:

The diagnostic criteria are very concrete, and an LPCC, a Ph.D. in clinical psychology, or a medical liscense is necessary for diagnosis. A layman cannot simply say, "This child has Autism" and have the diagnosis hold up.

True, but there ARE misdiganosises. It does seem like a lot of doctors etc see a couple of the symptoms and then label the kid as having the syndrome. Like I wonder if part of the autism epidemic is from ADD-style or learning disabilites being "counted" as part of the spectrum. Does anyone know if there's been a explosion in kids with classic autism?
Deafskeptic............I understand what you're trying to say. I know that autisim occurs on a spectrum from Einstein Syndrome to "let's see if we can't get Jeffy toilet trained in time for his fifteenth birthday"
However, there IS a difference between Asperger's and HFA. Asperger's kids have relatively good language skills, while HFA aren't great at language.
Asperger's is more like the mild "LD" version of autism, whereas HFA is more like kids who might be slow learner types.(ie not quite MR, but not quite normal IQ) Classic autism is more like classic mental retardation.
Aleser,
I know what you're trying to say..........however, I have witnessed the difference between HFA and more classical autism. I'm not one of those out of touch professionals...........and trust me.....it can be quite devastating. How do you know that people with more severe forms of autism aren't devastated by it? You're speaking from the perspective of someone with MILD autism.

deafskeptic · 07-28-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

True, but there ARE misdiganosises. It does seem like a lot of doctors etc see a couple of the symptoms and then label the kid as having the syndrome. Like I wonder if part of the autism epidemic is from ADD-style or learning disabilites being "counted" as part of the spectrum. Does anyone know if there's been a explosion in kids with classic autism?
Deafskeptic............I understand what you're trying to say. I know that autisim occurs on a spectrum from Einstein Syndrome to "let's see if we can't get Jeffy toilet trained in time for his fifteenth birthday"
However, there IS a difference between Asperger's and HFA. Asperger's kids have relatively good language skills, while HFA aren't great at language.
Asperger's is more like the mild "LD" version of autism, whereas HFA is more like kids who might be slow learner types.(ie not quite MR, but not quite normal IQ) Classic autism is more like classic mental retardation.
Aleser,
I know what you're trying to say..........however, I have witnessed the difference between HFA and more classical autism. I'm not one of those out of touch professionals...........and trust me.....it can be quite devastating. How do you know that people with more severe forms of autism aren't devastated by it? You're speaking from the perspective of someone with MILD autism.

Well, I can refer you to a site written by someone who has HFA; from what I can see she has excellent written language skills. Do a google on temple grandin austism.

I've read websites written by people with severe to profound autism who are unable to speak for some reason. Many of then are also users of relay services. Did you know that?

deafdyke · 07-28-2008, 08:55 PM

Deafskeptic, yes I know who Temple Grandin is. Although she has very decent language skills, she still thinks in pictures. Its like.....the way that Chinese people can learn English grammar, but still think in Chinese pictographs.

deafskeptic · 07-29-2008, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Deafskeptic, yes I know who Temple Grandin is. Although she has very decent language skills, she still thinks in pictures. Its like.....the way that Chinese people can learn English grammar, but still think in Chinese pictographs.

I also think in pictures myself even though I am not autisic. I'm just reminding you it's not a good idea to assume that all autistic have language problems. Many do seem to have expressive difficulties speech wise but it should not be assumed that they have poor command of the native language around them.

Liebling:-))) · 07-29-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Indeed. I've had people - especially my father- tell me if i tried harder, I wouldn't lose things so often. No matter how hard I try, I will lose things more often than most people will. My father says I shouldn't need to have back ups but for those with ADD related organizal problems, backs up are are a necessisty. I always have a copy of my bank statement or other official document ready if I should misplace my driver's id nor do I keep all of my important papers together because losing all of them will make it difficult to prove that I actually exist!

This year I haven't lost my ATM card once. However, I doubt that my card will make it to the expiration date. I tend to lose such cards before before they expire. One year I lost my ATM card 13 times a year; I remember nearly losing my temper when the banker wanted to know how I could lose it so often.

Well, your father can't compare your behavior with him or other children with no ADD... because they are different... All what we want to help ADD children is change their diet... more sports... time and patience with them...

All what I help my son with therapy is:

Change his diet
Need more sport to get aggressive out
Need to have time and patience with him

Sugar (sweets, soda, sweetner, additives, etc) should not give to ADD children after 2 pm. (Junk foods should be cut)...
They need sports instead of watch on TV or play computer... play with him... - turn TV off one hour before his bedtime... it help to reduce his wild and hyper. It work hard on my son when he was a little... Now he is teenager... didn't show his ADD behavior very much.

jillio · 07-29-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

I also think in pictures myself even though I am not autisic. I'm just reminding you it's not a good idea to assume that all autistic have language problems. Many do seem to have expressive difficulties speech wise but it should not be assumed that they have poor command of the native language around them.

This is true. While it can be said that the majority of autistic individuals experience expressive communication difficulties through interaction, it is decidedly not true that they experience the same difficulties with language receptively. The problem with autism is not a language problem. It is a social interaction problem that manifests through expressive use of language. DD is confusing symptomology with etiology.

jillio · 07-29-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

True, but there ARE misdiganosises. It does seem like a lot of doctors etc see a couple of the symptoms and then label the kid as having the syndrome. Like I wonder if part of the autism epidemic is from ADD-style or learning disabilites being "counted" as part of the spectrum. Does anyone know if there's been a explosion in kids with classic autism?
Deafskeptic............I understand what you're trying to say. I know that autisim occurs on a spectrum from Einstein Syndrome to "let's see if we can't get Jeffy toilet trained in time for his fifteenth birthday"
However, there IS a difference between Asperger's and HFA. Asperger's kids have relatively good language skills, while HFA aren't great at language.
Asperger's is more like the mild "LD" version of autism, whereas HFA is more like kids who might be slow learner types.(ie not quite MR, but not quite normal IQ) Classic autism is more like classic mental retardation.
Aleser,
I know what you're trying to say..........however, I have witnessed the difference between HFA and more classical autism. I'm not one of those out of touch professionals...........and trust me.....it can be quite devastating. How do you know that people with more severe forms of autism aren't devastated by it? You're speaking from the perspective of someone with MILD autism.

ADD and LD are completely separate diagnoses and are not part of the autism spectrum.

And yes, misdiagnosis does occur from time to time. But usually, the misdiagnosis is in underdiagnosising by the medical community rather than overdiagnosing. As I stated prior, a medical doctor cannot diagnose autism without a full neurological and psychological assessment.

deafdyke · 07-29-2008, 08:15 PM

jillo, actually according to Exceptional Parent some researchers are thinking that ADD is a form of high functioning autism. I know LD isn't a part of the spectrum, BUT LD kids very often have "Asperger's like" social delays. They don't have Asperger's per se....but they do have the social delays. Some doctors and experts might see those delays and automaticly label LD kids as Aspergers.
(which drives me insane...........I mean I have had a lot of interaction with both Aspie kids and LD kids and their social issues tend to be kinda different...hard to articulate why)

jillio · 07-30-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

jillo, actually according to Exceptional Parent some researchers are thinking that ADD is a form of high functioning autism. I know LD isn't a part of the spectrum, BUT LD kids very often have "Asperger's like" social delays. They don't have Asperger's per se....but they do have the social delays. Some doctors and experts might see those delays and automaticly label LD kids as Aspergers.
(which drives me insane...........I mean I have had a lot of interaction with both Aspie kids and LD kids and their social issues tend to be kinda different...hard to articulate why)

A child with LD would only be labeled as 'Autistic" if a complete work up and assessment had not been done. The kids with LD do not meet the diagnostic criteria for autism, or for autism spectrum disorders.

Social dealys are evident in many mental disorders. Some are environmentally created, some are inherent in the disorder. Social delays associated with LD are usually environmentally created, and are quite varied according to the individual's environment. And not all children with LD will show social delays. However, impeded social interaction is a diagnostic criteria for autism, and it is a symptom of the disorder itself, not environmentally produced as a secondary effect.

"Some researchers are thinking" is only speculation. Neurologists will tell you that the disorders are not related, and the biochemical reactions in the brain to various stimuli are different in those with Autism and those with ADD. Diagnostic criteria are different for the two, and symptomology are different for the two.

If there is an expert out there that is labeling a kid either LD or autistic without a full diagnositc work up and history, then their expertise needs to be questioned.

deafdyke · 07-30-2008, 11:02 PM

jillo I know. Basicly what some therapists and doctors are doing, may be that they see the "social delays" part of Asperger's, and so think that any kid who's socially bereft is Asperger's. Drives me INSANE!!!!!!

Aleser · 07-31-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

jillo I know. Basicly what some therapists and doctors are doing, may be that they see the "social delays" part of Asperger's, and so think that any kid who's socially bereft is Asperger's. Drives me INSANE!!!!!!

How many times does it bear repeating? It takes an army to diagnose autism- neurologists, psychologists and psychiatrists, a GP, ect. One Single Person, no matter what their specialty, cannot diagnose autism.

jillio · 07-31-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleser

How many times does it bear repeating? It takes an army to diagnose autism- neurologists, psychologists and psychologists, a GP, ect. One Single Person, no matter what their specialty, cannot diagnose autism.

Thank you!

dreama · 07-31-2008, 12:00 PM

I've been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. My dad had to go private though. He had a letter from a primary school teacher I had discribing my behaviour then and he talked to me for several hours before deciding I had it. It's difficult with me though as I'm only very mildly affected. I suppose it would be possible to misdiagnose like with anything else. My brother was misdiagnosed as having a heart condition when he was at college. It turned out he didnt have it after all and that was after a scan, so anything's possible really.

I would think the other way round would be more common though. I mean people genuinely having something wrong but the doctors not noticing until too late. Like with mum.

jillio · 07-31-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

I've been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. My dad had to go private though. He had a letter from a primary school teacher I had discribing my behaviour then and he talked to me for several hours before deciding I had it. It's difficult with me though as I'm only very mildly affected. I suppose it would be possible to misdiagnose like with anything else. My brother was misdiagnosed as having a heart condition when he was at college. It turned out he didnt have it after all and that was after a scan, so anything's possible really.

I would think the other way round would be more common though. I mean people genuinely having something wrong but the doctors not noticing until too late. Like with mum.

Underdiagnosis is much more common than overdiagnosis. You are correct.

07-31-2008, 12:00 PM	#89 (permalink)
dreama deafblind vegan Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,018	I've been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. My dad had to go private though. He had a letter from a primary school teacher I had discribing my behaviour then and he talked to me for several hours before deciding I had it. It's difficult with me though as I'm only very mildly affected. I suppose it would be possible to misdiagnose like with anything else. My brother was misdiagnosed as having a heart condition when he was at college. It turned out he didnt have it after all and that was after a scan, so anything's possible really. I would think the other way round would be more common though. I mean people genuinely having something wrong but the doctors not noticing until too late. Like with mum. __________________ I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. http://www.fightfoca.com/

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07-28-2008, 08:55 PM	#79 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 7,736	Deafskeptic, yes I know who Temple Grandin is. Although she has very decent language skills, she still thinks in pictures. Its like.....the way that Chinese people can learn English grammar, but still think in Chinese pictographs.

07-29-2008, 08:15 PM	#84 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 7,736	jillo, actually according to Exceptional Parent some researchers are thinking that ADD is a form of high functioning autism. I know LD isn't a part of the spectrum, BUT LD kids very often have "Asperger's like" social delays. They don't have Asperger's per se....but they do have the social delays. Some doctors and experts might see those delays and automaticly label LD kids as Aspergers. (which drives me insane...........I mean I have had a lot of interaction with both Aspie kids and LD kids and their social issues tend to be kinda different...hard to articulate why)

07-30-2008, 11:02 PM	#86 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 7,736	jillo I know. Basicly what some therapists and doctors are doing, may be that they see the "social delays" part of Asperger's, and so think that any kid who's socially bereft is Asperger's. Drives me INSANE!!!!!!