Bill: Mandatory Paternity Tests Before Birth Certificates Issued - Page 2

shel90 · 03-09-2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What about the guaranteed right to privacy? What about confidentiality of medical information? What about innocent until proven guilty? Personally, I don't wnat the government involved in my adult, consenting sexual realtionship, my medical records, or to start assuming that the citicens of this country are guilty without evidence and proof. This bill is a blatant civil rights violation. And it buys into some of the most destructive stereotypes that can be perpetrated: that all women are deceptive and cannot be trusted. Why don't we just go back to believing that people of African American descent are automatically criminal, and that people with disabilities are less than intelligent? Those are the same types of assumptions that we have fought so hard to get rid of under the law, and now we have alwa proposed that is one huge leap backward. Shall we go back to the stereotype that women are weaker and less intelligent than men, and that by nature of the fact that they have menses, they are more prone to mental defects and hysteria?

Phillips · 03-09-2008, 07:57 AM

Very Interesting!!!

I remember one of my friends told me about her cousin or uncle.< I forget? but ** I typing Here "Uncle" ***

Her Uncle is very upset that His surprised Teen daughter shows up his door! She tell him that Why that He never been in her life

He is so surprised and sad he was unexpected that "What …You re my daughter?"

He was so confused because her mother never told him!

He contacted with her mother and talks what is going on. He never knew that have daughter. Her mom told him Oh well I found new boyfriend after Uncle. He earned more of money and steady job. Uncle does not have money and unsteady job

....

Uncle was so mad and Of course, He needed to take his daughter to DNA to prove. Good enough that his daughter matches DNA with her Uncle... He felt so sick and vomits!

What is more? After Her long time boyfriend dump and no support daughter's mom! Her mom decided to take Uncle to court for dead beat Daddy

but Of course Uncle Won by court and do not have to pay her mom!

also remove her boyfriend name and change to Uncle name on her Birth Cerf.

Now my friend told me that their daughter is fuck up and wear the black clothes. She put too much color black eyeliner on her eyes and lip

I believe that her mom did cause completely messy with daughter and Uncle!

umm I think its good idea for Paternity test before birth Cerf.

Byrdie714 · 03-09-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That is hardly justification for mandatory paternity testing in all births. If a man was slapped with child support without DNA evidence showing that he was the father, it was because he signed the birth certificate stating that he was the father. By your reasoning, we assume the child is NOT a product of a monogamous relationship until it is proven that he/she is. Totally in reverse of the legal concept of innocent until proven guilty. Mandatory paternity testing assumes guilt until proven innocent. And worse, yet, it automatically assumes the guilt on the part of the woman, which is gender bias in the extreme.

It's also gender bias in the extreme when a woman accuses a man of being a father when he isn't!

Byrdie714 · 03-09-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And this bill assumes that ALL mothers, you and I included, Cheri, lie to their children about their parentage. We are being assumed guilty, and have to prove that we are honest.

And that is an issue you have a problem with?

There is nothing wrong with going the "extra step" to prove that one is being honest.

All it seems that one wants to do is to "blame it on the man" when in fact it takes two to tango.

Byrdie714 · 03-09-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

I definitely do understand what you both are saying Cherie and Byrdie, but what about those women who are faithful, have to take paternity test before the father's name goes on the birth certificate, don't you see that as an "insult" ? ..

If I suspect my wife of cheating, yes I would.

Byrdie714 · 03-09-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What about the guaranteed right to privacy? What about confidentiality of medical information? What about innocent until proven guilty? Personally, I don't wnat the government involved in my adult, consenting sexual realtionship, my medical records, or to start assuming that the citicens of this country are guilty without evidence and proof. This bill is a blatant civil rights violation. And it buys into some of the most destructive stereotypes that can be perpetrated: that all women are deceptive and cannot be trusted. Why don't we just go back to believing that people of African American descent are automatically criminal, and that people with disabilities are less than intelligent? Those are the same types of assumptions that we have fought so hard to get rid of under the law, and now we have alwa proposed that is one huge leap backward. Shall we go back to the stereotype that women are weaker and less intelligent than men, and that by nature of the fact that they have menses, they are more prone to mental defects and hysteria?

shel90 · 03-09-2008, 10:22 AM

What if people cant afford the extra cost? What then?

Angel · 03-09-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

If I suspect my wife of cheating, yes I would.

Fair enough

..

jillio · 03-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

It's also gender bias in the extreme when a woman accuses a man of being a father when he isn't!

How so? We are talking about laws that create gender bias, not an individuals actions. You can hold the entire society responsible for one person's actions. If a man has been accused of fathering a child, there are already procedures in place to determine the acurracy of that accusation.

jillio · 03-09-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

If I suspect my wife of cheating, yes I would.

And you already have the right to request that. Simply because you believe your wife to be cheating does not automatically transfer to "All women cheat and therefore must have a DNA test done at the birth of every child they bear." Maybe you should make better choices in partners rather than expecting all of us to be responsible for your errors in judgement.

jillio · 03-09-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

And that is an issue you have a problem with?

There is nothing wrong with going the "extra step" to prove that one is being honest.

All it seems that one wants to do is to "blame it on the man" when in fact it takes two to tango.

From someone who claims to be an attorney, I would think you would have a firm grasp on the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Should I automatically assume that everything you say is a lie? That is what this bill would be encouraging.

jillio · 03-09-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What if people cant afford the extra cost? What then?

And what about an infertile couple that uses a sperm bank to concieve? This law would violate allsorts of confidentiality laws in that case.

Cheri · 03-09-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

How so? We are talking about laws that create gender bias, not an individuals actions. You can hold the entire society responsible for one person's actions. If a man has been accused of fathering a child, there are already procedures in place to determine the acurracy of that accusation.

It seems this bill pose a danger to you, worrying about honest people being testing, It's about having the "right" father presence in a child's life. The fact is there are numerous of mothers who had lied about the paternity of the child's father. It takes two people to create a life and nobody can change the fact that two people have created a child together. Both of them have rights and obligations as parents. It's about doing what's right in the eyes of the child. It's not about you, or I. That's why I did not even think about myself when I support this bill, I thought about all the children out there. I think this bill will protect the future emotional scars in the child's life, I have faith in believing it will. All the suspicions and lies needs to be stopped one way or another.

Tousi · 03-09-2008, 02:21 PM

Cheri, maybe I haven't read this closely enough but proving paternity already exists now so why waste tax dollars with this new proposed law?

Cheri · 03-09-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Cheri, maybe I haven't read this closely enough but proving paternity already exists now so why waste tax dollars with this new proposed law?

Yes, paternity test does exists but not everyone is testing unless there are suspicions, it's not demanding.

sometimes the mother will not admit that the child might not his until much later, there will be a feeling of betrayal. It's so unfair that fathers today are caring for a child which is unknowingly theirs.

This bill will make everyone be testing, no expectations If a woman has nothing to hide or has no other expectations then it should not affect the woman, it'll only affect those who had lied from the begin. So why would honest women have something to worry about? Just take it and get it over with.

sequoias · 03-09-2008, 02:49 PM

Sweetheart asked me to post this:

what to do if a woman gets pregnant and she knew that guy got her pregnant and he runs off?

Even you couldn't find him and how can you get birth certificate without proof of the dna results?

Cheri · 03-09-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sequoias

Sweetheart asked me to post this:

what to do if a woman gets pregnant and she knew that guy got her pregnant and he runs off?

Even you couldn't find him and how can you get birth certificate without proof of the dna results?

Good question, I think the birth certificate would leave a blank for the prove of fathering until the father is found, that including support for the child as well until the paternity test is completed. They will find him, they have a database to find the absent parents by social security numbers, employment, or place of residents.

jillio · 03-09-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

It seems this bill pose a danger to you, worrying about honest people being testing, It's about having the "right" father presence in a child's life. The fact is there are numerous of mothers who had lied about the paternity of the child's father. It takes two people to create a life and nobody can change the fact that two people have created a child together. Both of them have rights and obligations as parents. It's about doing what's right in the eyes of the child. It's not about you, or I. That's why I did not even think about myself when I support this bill, I thought about all the children out there. I think this bill will protect the future emotional scars in the child's life, I have faith in believing it will. All the suspicions and lies needs to be stopped one way or another.

I understand what you are saying, Cheri, but that does not mean that ALL WOMEN should be held responsible for the ones that lie. And it is about you and I because it is a violation of our civil rights. And proving paternity is no guarantee that a father will be involved in a child's life. This bill does nothing to protect a child from emotional scars. All it does is record DNA, and it does so in a way that is insulting to women. Taking DNA, and assuming that a woman has lied about the paternity of her child creates suspicion, not decrease it. And a woman who lies is a woman who lies. She needs to dealt with on an individual basis. This is but one more governmental intrusion that is totally uneccesary and punishes the innocent. Quite frankly, I don't see this bill ever passing. We already have procedures in place for determining paternity when it is suspected that a woman has provided false information. Since there is already a way to correct her wrongs, there is no need to subject an entire population to DNA testing and added expense when paternity is not being contested.

jillio · 03-09-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Yes, paternity test does exists but not everyone is testing unless there are suspicions, it's not demanding.

sometimes the mother will not admit that the child might not his until much later, there will be a feeling of betrayal. It's so unfair that fathers today are caring for a child which is unknowingly theirs.

This bill will make everyone be testing, no expectations If a woman has nothing to hide or has no other expectations then it should not affect the woman, it'll only affect those who had lied from the begin. So why would honest women have something to worry about? Just take it and get it over with.

If a woman lies about the paternity of her child, the feelings of betrayal will still be there. This does not get rid of that. Honest women have something to worry about because of the implied message of this proposed bill.

jillio · 03-09-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Good question, I think the birth certificate would leave a blank for the prove of fathering until the father is found, that including support for the child as well until the paternity test is completed. They will find him, they have a database to find the absent parents by social security numbers, employment, or place of residents.

Exactly. There are already measures in place to handle these situations. We don't need to make mandatory paternity testing a law when paternity is not being contested. And, BTW, there are just as many men who deny their paternity to get out of taking responsibility as there are women who lie about paternity. In fact, it is usually the case when a case goes to court that the woman is stating who the father of the child is, and the father is denying it. And remember, the father's DNA sample has to be available to prove paternity.

GarnetTigerMom · 03-09-2008, 05:08 PM

Honesty I don't think we need to have that bill passed. It's the mother's right to do what she want on the birth certiciate. There no law required to force the mother to add the child s father name on the birth certificate. I agree with jilio that we have a right to protect our sexual relationship prviate and our medical records private as well. Whatever the reasons a single mother does, it's her business and no one else's business. Who are we to pass judgment on their personal life?

GarnetTigerMom · 03-09-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sequoias

Sweetheart asked me to post this:

what to do if a woman gets pregnant and she knew that guy got her pregnant and he runs off?

Even you couldn't find him and how can you get birth certificate without proof of the dna results?

yeah some men don't want to take responbility as a father and runs away.. also some refuse to take DNA test, if the father refuse DNA test, she can take him to court to force him to take DNA test. Lot of dead beat fathers are lousy.

GarnetTigerMom · 03-09-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

It seems this bill pose a danger to you, worrying about honest people being testing, It's about having the "right" father presence in a child's life. The fact is there are numerous of mothers who had lied about the paternity of the child's father. It takes two people to create a life and nobody can change the fact that two people have created a child together. Both of them have rights and obligations as parents. It's about doing what's right in the eyes of the child. It's not about you, or I. That's why I did not even think about myself when I support this bill, I thought about all the children out there. I think this bill will protect the future emotional scars in the child's life, I have faith in believing it will. All the suspicions and lies needs to be stopped one way or another.

What if the mother lied to protect her child and herself? whatever the reasons the mothers have,, it her business. What if the father have a criminal history? What if he done something to her? maybe she have a good reasons to lie. Some women I have met says they did it for protection of their children. But, hey I respect their deiscions and their business.

Cheri · 03-09-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

It's the mother's right to do what she want on the birth certiciate.

Are you saying it's okay to lie on the birth certificate? Is it ok to pick any "father" that the mother thinks that might be the father of her child to be written on a birth certificate?

GarnetTigerMom · 03-09-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Are you saying it's okay to lie on the birth certificate? Is it ok to pick any "father" that the mother thinks that might be the father of her child to be written on a birth certificate?

No that is not what I am saying, I am saying the mother have a right to leave her child birth certificate blank. I never said making name to target other man listed as a false father. Did I say it's okay to write a false name on birth certificate? NOPE. tsk. She have rights to do what she want to do for a good reasons. I never said create a name to use other man name on birth certificate. Don't twist my words, please.

Cheri · 03-09-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

What if the mother lied to protect her child and herself? whatever the reasons the mothers have,, it her business. What if the father have a criminal history? What if he done something to her? maybe she have a good reasons to lie. Some women I have met says they did it for protection of their children. But, hey I respect their deiscions and their business.

DNA paternity test has nothing to do with visitations. It is to determine whether a particular father could be the biological father of the child. Nothing more nothing less.

03-09-2008, 07:57 AM	#32 (permalink)
Phillips Lets ride horses! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Somewhere in Northeast Posts: 6,344 Blog Entries: 3	Very Interesting!!! I remember one of my friends told me about her cousin or uncle.< I forget? but I typing Here "Uncle" * Her Uncle is very upset that His surprised Teen daughter shows up his door! She tell him that Why that He never been in her life He is so surprised and sad he was unexpected that "What …You re my daughter?" He was so confused because her mother never told him! He contacted with her mother and talks what is going on. He never knew that have daughter. Her mom told him Oh well I found new boyfriend after Uncle. He earned more of money and steady job. Uncle does not have money and unsteady job .... Uncle was so mad and Of course, He needed to take his daughter to DNA to prove. Good enough that his daughter matches DNA with her Uncle... He felt so sick and vomits! What is more? After Her long time boyfriend dump and no support daughter's mom! Her mom decided to take Uncle to court for dead beat Daddy but Of course Uncle Won by court and do not have to pay her mom! also remove her boyfriend name and change to Uncle name on her Birth Cerf. Now my friend told me that their daughter is fuck up and wear the black clothes. She put too much color black eyeliner on her eyes and lip I believe that her mom did cause completely messy with daughter and Uncle! umm I think its good idea for Paternity test before birth Cerf. __________________ *Enjoy life today, Yesterday has past and Tomorrow may never come.*

03-09-2008, 10:22 AM	#37 (permalink)
shel90 Sun Whorshipper Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A Desert Rat that has found herself in Maryland Posts: 13,695 Blog Entries: 1	What if people cant afford the extra cost? What then? __________________ ~Shel~

03-09-2008, 05:08 PM	#51 (permalink)
GarnetTigerMom Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,590	Honesty I don't think we need to have that bill passed. It's the mother's right to do what she want on the birth certiciate. There no law required to force the mother to add the child s father name on the birth certificate. I agree with jilio that we have a right to protect our sexual relationship prviate and our medical records private as well. Whatever the reasons a single mother does, it's her business and no one else's business. Who are we to pass judgment on their personal life? __________________ GarnetTigerMom "The rain may be falling hard outside, But your smile makes it all alright. I'm so glad that you're my friend. I know our friendship will never end." -- Robert Alan

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03-09-2008, 02:21 PM	#44 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,125	Cheri, maybe I haven't read this closely enough but proving paternity already exists now so why waste tax dollars with this new proposed law?

03-09-2008, 02:49 PM	#46 (permalink)
sequoias Railfan 4 life! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Evergreen State Posts: 11,616	Sweetheart asked me to post this: what to do if a woman gets pregnant and she knew that guy got her pregnant and he runs off? Even you couldn't find him and how can you get birth certificate without proof of the dna results?