From CNN - Police: Black student marked with 'KKK' at deaf school - Page 2

pek1 · 10-04-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

. . . And luckily they got kicked out! That's awesome!

deafdyke,

Is this official? I know the kids were "sent home." Does this mean they were actually expelled? I'm wondering, not being facetious here, okay?

Tousi · 10-04-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pek1

deafdyke,

Is this official? I know the kids were "sent home." Does this mean they were actually expelled? I'm wondering, not being facetious here, okay?

My understanding's that they were sent home, pending completion of the investigation and whether or not charges will rise to the level of a hate crime. I don't think it will (my opinion).

pek1 · 10-04-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nesmuth

Pek,

I’m very excited that this news is breaking out.

I see MSSD as a breeding ground of hate like a boot camp. Thats where future soldiers of American Sign Language (ASL) learn their tricks. Once they pass the ‘crucible’, through the Kappa Gamma fraternity, they learn how to export scourge and oppression upon deaf groups and people who do not use or embrace ASL.

Getting the spotlight on the recent MSSD incident is a very positive step toward eliminating this particular breeding ground that has farmed, sponsored, and encouraged hate toward people and groups who don't use or support ASL.

Richard Roehm

Richard,

I'm well aware the actual goal of fraternities and sororities, as the students who belong to them are nothing but a bunch of drunkards. I have yet to see anything worth its salt turn out from a frat house or a sorority.

If they have those feelings toward me when I come (hopefully) in January, they need to learn how NOT to burn their bridges, as I'm not one to waste time talking to a drunken frat boy (with the emphasis on the word, "boy"). If they're nice to me and not try and set me up (for possibly hazing or injurying my dog), I will reciprocate and be nice back.

I hope these kids, due to this incident last weekend, are staring into the eyes of possible felony charges.

pek1 · 10-04-2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

My understanding's that they were sent home, pending completion of the investigation and whether or not charges will rise to the level of a hate crime . . .

That's how I understood it. I'm betting there's going to be a lot of "tanned" asses this week because of this. If my kid was involved in this, rest assured, he will not want to sit on a chair or sofa at all this week and quite possibly, two weeks.

Nesmuth · 10-05-2007, 12:38 AM

I'm going to paste some grafts I placed on another blog to clarify my explanations. The bold is my own participation in this lively debate.

=================

It's not going to be about racism. Its going to be about a bunch of kids showing off their wiggles to the Kappa Gamma frat.

And Kappa Gamma is all about hatred to deaf people and their groups who dont fully embrace ASL.

Hm? What does Kamma Gamma have to do with the MSSD incident? KG is a Gallaudet fraternity. I'm sorry I don't see the connection. Would you elaborate?

Dan,

The university fraternity I'm talking about happens to be on the same property as MSSD. They're basically under Kappa Gamma's cloak.

Are you saying that the same frat which used to march their recruits around Gallaudet campus in hoods and initiate rat funerals in the '70s actually control MSSD? Come on...

The easy giveaway is Jankowski's letter.

She's playing the 'I didnt know' game whereas numerous parents of students have been howling about the fog of intolerance thats been around the MSSD for quite a while.

Richard

deafdyke · 10-05-2007, 02:48 AM

Richard, as I stated before, the seperatist Deaf are REALLY in the minority overall. Only about 1% of dhh folks are Sign only, and of those the number of extremists are probly very small. Yes, there are extremists.......but overall Deaf seperatists and extremists are VERY small in number. HELLO, there's even a thread in the HA/CI forum about how there's a significent number of students at Gally with CI. Now that's something you prolly wouldn't have seen even five years ago.
Quite a lot of the seperatist mentality was born from oralists being all "Oh Sign is speshal needs! Only kids who can't speak and hear need Sign! Sign is a crutch!"
Yes, there are SOME people who honestly don't see using Sign as that helpful a tool. But, it does seem like a lot of the oral only (NOT orally skilled) brigade rejects it b/c they've been taught to see it as not a helpful skill. And you know, its very funny. Those are the SAME people who are all "Oral people are so independant and don't need to "depend on" 'terps." And then in their NEXT breath they start complaining that there's no accomondation simlair to 'terps out there for oral only folks!
So that frat is on the same campus as the high school? So what? Doesn't mean that they have a huge influence on the high school. Say there was a confederate pride group at an university. It doesn't mean that they have a large influence on its students.

Tousi · 10-05-2007, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pek1

That's how I understood it. I'm betting there's going to be a lot of "tanned" asses this week because of this. If my kid was involved in this, rest assured, he will not want to sit on a chair or sofa at all this week and quite possibly, two weeks.

Ok, Pete, you're the father in the above scenario; however, try keep in mind that these deaf kids attending H.S. on the property of Gallaudet University, physically separated by maybe 1,000 feet range in ages from 15 to 19. Now the average deaf person in this age range are typically a couple to 4 years behind hearing kids, something widely known and accepted; and therefore, they lack the maturity and personal responsibility to fully realize the gravity of their behavior after an incident of horse-playing got out of hand.

Now, we all know that the behavior the other night was truly horrific but given what I've just said about them, I don't believe that it will rise to the level of a hate crime. The inclusion of a black student attacker in the group may or may not determine this because even blacks and whites can behave this way toward those of like-color. However, consequences will surely befall these kids, pending discovery items coming out of the investigation by the D.C. police. If you get a chance, read what Bob Davila the President of Gallaudet University has to say about this.

Off topic for just a second; I am against hate crime legislation but that is for another place and time and has no bearing on what I've just opined above.

Liebling:-))) · 10-05-2007, 06:57 AM

What a sad... *shake my head disgistly*

Cheri · 10-05-2007, 08:26 AM

That's horrible.

farewell65 · 10-05-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pek1

deafdyke,

Is this official? I know the kids were "sent home." Does this mean they were actually expelled? I'm wondering, not being facetious here, okay?

7 kids are actually expelled from MSSD, Dr Janowski and media want to put look properly words to use for media saying kids were "sent home"

GarnetTigerMom · 10-05-2007, 09:31 AM

Speaking of KKK,, I agree it totally sad and it also very stupid. If you think that our generation have stop terrible group like KKK,,, well honestly I have to say that KKK that are racism never stop. Racism is always going to be around and some people will never learn when to stop having hate crimes. People who are into hate crimes got no respects.

deafdyke · 10-05-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Now the average deaf person in this age range are typically a couple to 4 years behind hearing kids, something widely known and accepted; and therefore, they lack the maturity and personal responsibility to fully realize the gravity of their behavior after an incident of horse-playing got out of hand.

Educationally yes, they are behind. BUT, what does being dhh have to do with maturity? I mean dhh kids have some social emotional issues, but they don't have LD/ ADD/Asperger's style social emotional issues.

Tousi · 10-05-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Educationally yes, they are behind. BUT, what does being dhh have to do with maturity? I mean dhh kids have some social emotional issues, but they don't have LD/ ADD/Asperger's style social emotional issues.

So you don't they mature a little later like everything else?

pek1 · 10-05-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

So you don't they mature a little later like everything else?

I think, Tousi, if you took a peek into the locker room when the 13-14 year olds are in there, you will see plenty of "maturity" going on. That's when the typical body starts to mature.

Furthermore, we don't need any more legislation, but we do need, and I mean all of us need to learn how to respect each other. Yes, I will go so far as not to call this a "hate crime," but a "hazing" instead, since we do want to be "politically correct."

On another note, do you have a link to what Bob Davila said?

Tousi · 10-06-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pek1

I think, Tousi, if you took a peek into the locker room when the 13-14 year olds are in there, you will see plenty of "maturity" going on. That's when the typical body starts to mature.

Furthermore, we don't need any more legislation, but we do need, and I mean all of us need to learn how to respect each other. Yes, I will go so far as not to call this a "hate crime," but a "hazing" instead, since we do want to be "politically correct."

On another note, do you have a link to what Bob Davila said?

Come on, Pek, why would I be interested in the physical; I meant social and emotional maturation.

I will see if I can dig up the Davila interview about this incident.

deafdyke · 10-06-2007, 02:09 AM

Tousi, no, why would they be emotionally immature, just b/c they can't hear? Some of them yes like mainstreamed or formally oral only kids, or kids with syndromes that can cause LD like issues.......but in general kids with just general disabilites aren't more emotionally/socially immature then their hearing/sighted/whatever peers.

Tousi · 10-06-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Tousi, no, why would they be emotionally immature, just b/c they can't hear? Some of them yes like mainstreamed or formally oral only kids, or kids with syndromes that can cause LD like issues.......but in general kids with just general disabilites aren't more emotionally/socially immature then their hearing/sighted/whatever peers.

Well, I believe they are; the deaf, that is, generally speaking and yes, because they can't hear. They've had to develop, mature, etc, etc under hearing guidance, lol.

shel90 · 10-06-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pek1

Richard,

I'm well aware the actual goal of fraternities and sororities, as the students who belong to them are nothing but a bunch of drunkards. I have yet to see anything worth its salt turn out from a frat house or a sorority.

If they have those feelings toward me when I come (hopefully) in January, they need to learn how NOT to burn their bridges, as I'm not one to waste time talking to a drunken frat boy (with the emphasis on the word, "boy"). If they're nice to me and not try and set me up (for possibly hazing or injurying my dog), I will reciprocate and be nice back.

I hope these kids, due to this incident last weekend, are staring into the eyes of possible felony charges.

Richard is right a little about Kappa Gamma..not all of them are bad but the attitude in that fraternity wasnt really positive to those who are different. My brother almost joined it but decided not to due to all the problems. However, I feel that Kappa Gamma has nothing to do with this incident. Besides the Gally and MSSD students dont really interact with each other too often anyway.

jillio · 10-06-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Onca

so 6 white + 1 black student vs 1 black student

how is this racist if a black person was also involved?

yes it was horrid though- no one should have done that regardless of race let alone being in a school setting.

You've never heard of intraracial discrimination?

jillio · 10-06-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Tousi, no, why would they be emotionally immature, just b/c they can't hear? Some of them yes like mainstreamed or formally oral only kids, or kids with syndromes that can cause LD like issues.......but in general kids with just general disabilites aren't more emotionally/socially immature then their hearing/sighted/whatever peers.

Not just because they are deaf, dd, but because of prior environmental influence and langauge delays.

Tousi · 10-06-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farewell65

7 kids are actually expelled from MSSD, Dr Janowski and media want to put look properly words to use for media saying kids were "sent home"

Are you sure, "expelled" is the right word vs "sent home" because the investigation is still ongoing.

shel90 · 10-06-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not just because they are deaf, dd, but because of prior environmental influence and langauge delays.

Right...it is common. Even I was labeled as socially immature in my report cards.

deafskeptic · 10-06-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Richard is right a little about Kappa Gamma..not all of them are bad but the attitude in that fraternity wasnt really positive to those who are different. My brother almost joined it but decided not to due to all the problems. However, I feel that Kappa Gamma has nothing to do with this incident. Besides the Gally and MSSD students dont really interact with each other too often anyway.

I was about to say the same thing but I see you beat me to it, Shel90.

Shel90 is quite correct on this one. I'm a grad of MSSD; students did not interact much with Gally students even though they're on the same campus when I was there in the 80s. Apparently things have not changed much since I graduated from MSSD in the mid 80s.

While the Kappa Gamma folks at Gally may have a attitude toward others, it's highly unlikely they've got anything to do with what happened at MSSD.

Foxrac · 10-06-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farewell65

7 kids are actually expelled from MSSD, Dr Janowski and media want to put look properly words to use for media saying kids were "sent home"

Oh wow, I always thought about suspended but my bad.

Dixie · 10-06-2007, 06:11 PM

For those who are interested - Ive posted my opinion of the incident and the lingering thoughts of it on my blog, just click the link in my signature.

10-05-2007, 06:57 AM	#38 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Hiiiiiii it's meeeeee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 25,687	What a sad... shake my head disgistly __________________ sniffing you

10-05-2007, 08:26 AM	#39 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 20,755	That's horrible. __________________

10-05-2007, 09:31 AM	#41 (permalink)
GarnetTigerMom Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,595	Speaking of KKK,, I agree it totally sad and it also very stupid. If you think that our generation have stop terrible group like KKK,,, well honestly I have to say that KKK that are racism never stop. Racism is always going to be around and some people will never learn when to stop having hate crimes. People who are into hate crimes got no respects. __________________ GarnetTigerMom "The rain may be falling hard outside, But your smile makes it all alright. I'm so glad that you're my friend. I know our friendship will never end." -- Robert Alan

10-06-2007, 06:11 PM	#55 (permalink)
Dixie Darren Hayes, Aussie Boi Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,867	For those who are interested - Ive posted my opinion of the incident and the lingering thoughts of it on my blog, just click the link in my signature. __________________ Visit my Deaf Blog Signature banner created by me, please do not steal!

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10-05-2007, 12:38 AM	#35 (permalink)
Nesmuth Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Southland of California Posts: 3,199	I'm going to paste some grafts I placed on another blog to clarify my explanations. The bold is my own participation in this lively debate. ================= It's not going to be about racism. Its going to be about a bunch of kids showing off their wiggles to the Kappa Gamma frat. And Kappa Gamma is all about hatred to deaf people and their groups who dont fully embrace ASL. Hm? What does Kamma Gamma have to do with the MSSD incident? KG is a Gallaudet fraternity. I'm sorry I don't see the connection. Would you elaborate? Dan, The university fraternity I'm talking about happens to be on the same property as MSSD. They're basically under Kappa Gamma's cloak. Are you saying that the same frat which used to march their recruits around Gallaudet campus in hoods and initiate rat funerals in the '70s actually control MSSD? Come on... The easy giveaway is Jankowski's letter. She's playing the 'I didnt know' game whereas numerous parents of students have been howling about the fog of intolerance thats been around the MSSD for quite a while. Richard

10-05-2007, 02:48 AM	#36 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,571	Richard, as I stated before, the seperatist Deaf are REALLY in the minority overall. Only about 1% of dhh folks are Sign only, and of those the number of extremists are probly very small. Yes, there are extremists.......but overall Deaf seperatists and extremists are VERY small in number. HELLO, there's even a thread in the HA/CI forum about how there's a significent number of students at Gally with CI. Now that's something you prolly wouldn't have seen even five years ago. Quite a lot of the seperatist mentality was born from oralists being all "Oh Sign is speshal needs! Only kids who can't speak and hear need Sign! Sign is a crutch!" Yes, there are SOME people who honestly don't see using Sign as that helpful a tool. But, it does seem like a lot of the oral only (NOT orally skilled) brigade rejects it b/c they've been taught to see it as not a helpful skill. And you know, its very funny. Those are the SAME people who are all "Oral people are so independant and don't need to "depend on" 'terps." And then in their NEXT breath they start complaining that there's no accomondation simlair to 'terps out there for oral only folks! So that frat is on the same campus as the high school? So what? Doesn't mean that they have a huge influence on the high school. Say there was a confederate pride group at an university. It doesn't mean that they have a large influence on its students.

10-06-2007, 02:09 AM	#46 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,571	Tousi, no, why would they be emotionally immature, just b/c they can't hear? Some of them yes like mainstreamed or formally oral only kids, or kids with syndromes that can cause LD like issues.......but in general kids with just general disabilites aren't more emotionally/socially immature then their hearing/sighted/whatever peers.