Barbaro

I have been listening this news for several months and I knew they would have increase the fees make it difficult for refugees to enter the US from conflict situations. In my opinion, the fees are too expensive.

Cool. We can adopt redneck ideas such as..

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PuyoPiyo

Correctly, Barbaro

We create whatever we want for our own home. Yupp I have the hippy personality inside me hehe!

Liebling:-)))

that's super idea, Barbarao...

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ASLGAL

We are twisted way off topic here

Refugees? Who, from where?
The starter of the thread was talking about Mexicans (Illegals) not refugees.

Wow Reba, you are getting into this illegal,everyone owes me something mentality - haha

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R2D2

It's similar with Australia. The aborigines where here before the Europeans and had no concept of private property ownership. The land was considered to belong to everyone until the Europeans arrived and parcelled everything off.

There was nothing they could do. Aborigines were not even considered to be human beings until 1967. Until then, they were listed in the census under "Flowers and Fauna".

As someone who did an Economics degree I have a positive view of immigration. Immigrants increase the tax base in countries were fertility is declining and the population is aging. They also bring their savings to their host countries, which they spend, resulting in creation of jobs. They also tend to take jobs that no one wants or which cannot be filled. They spend their wages, which further increases jobs. It's not like every country has a fixed number of jobs that stays the same whatever happens.

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Foxrac

No, You misunderstood, let to re-read the news below.

It's for everyone, all people that who from other countries and want move to USA then same fee will charge to get green card, like from Mexico, UK, Canada, Japan, Germany, Brazil and every other countries. Mexicans aren't alone but illegal is out of way because they don't pay to get green card.

Barbaro is right about refugees from any other countries.

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Reba

Hey, whatever works!

Reba

Legal immigration, fine. Illegally sneaking into the country, not fine.

The illegal aliens sneaking into the USA are NOT bring savings to their host country--they are sending their earnings back to the home countries.

They are NOT taking just jobs that no one wants. They take jobs that the employers want to keep off the books. They don't increase the tax base if they work under the table but their descendants will get the benefits of our social programs.

Not regulating who comes thru the gate, or who stays beyond their visas means career criminals and terrorists can come and go as they please.

Reba

The article also stated:

Foxrac

Reba, You don't understand...

Illegal immigrants do paid taxes, only via federal, income, city and county, except for SS and medicare due absence of green card or SSN card.

You can look at Google, that what my friend told me, he's from LA.

Only one problem, they cannot file on tax like H&R block because require to use SSN card or green card, even they don't got tax return and only paid on paycheck.

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Foxrac

Got some idea, I feel that projection will be continue for white non-hispanic to hit 50% by 2050.

Sure, if all job require green card or SSN card then they will work so hard in Mexico to make more money or ask someone to help them to can afford to get green card, that can be happen but decline or reduce isn't always happen.

Also, latino is growing so rapidly from offspring too, too many children for sure.

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PowerON

not all of them pay tax. The certainly job that doesn't require green card or SSI, they pay in cold cash.

and they send US currency to other country as US are begin lose some.

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Foxrac

If so then that means workplace are break the law, as well.

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Reba

Yes, I understand. If they are getting paid under the table that means they are not contributing to the federal income tax, state income tax, Medicare, or Social Security. Some of them operate their own businesses under the table also, they aren't paying for business licenses or permits either. Some of them drive cars without get drivers licenses or insurance. They pay sales taxes when they buy products.

Reba

If the employer knowingly hires illegal aliens, then that is true.

Foxrac

I means if they remove the tax system from paycheck then would be in big trouble, both of workplace and illegal immigrants.

I asked my boss today and noticed that nozobo is right about wal-mart don't hire illegal immigrants anymore, if you don't have SSN card then they will ask you to proof of green card, VISA or work permit, if not then you are out of quality.

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PuyoPiyo

Well I was tried to make the debate, but Reba ended up trying to tease on me so I take it as sense of humor.

Yeah Australia is very similar to America, like a new land founded in the history lol.

I agree with you, the immigrants do help the countries! Look at Canada! They have lot of Asian immigrants and that is how they expanded their country as a pure nice country. Also look at Russia, they suffered by exmigrants (people in Russia leaving the country) and are stuck with the population decline since 1990s.

So the whatsoever if it is legal or illegal immigrants doesn't matter to me, as least as they pay the taxes.

And also I agree with Pacman all the way.

R2D2

It's true that they send some of their earnings home but they also have to spend money on the essentials to live such as food, heating, clothing, rent etc. Also the amounts that get sent home is probably not too much different to what legal residents save in bank accounts etc.

TI am not familiar with the US system but in Australia, illegal migrants and their children cannot use medical services, cannot send their children to school and cannot claim social welfare payments. They also pay higher fees for rents because the landlord knows they are illegals and have to pay cash for everything so that they aren't discovered. Not a great existence but probably better than what they had back home.

I don't personally have a problem with children benefiting from social services - it's not their fault their parents made the choices they did.
If you don't do anything about the children then it will produce a large, uneducated, poor underclass in your country who are more likely to turn to crime to survive. You have to think of it from a pragmatic social policy perspective that works with the givens.

I think it's a myth that terrorists come in as illegal migrants. It's a lot of effort and a lot of risk to come in that way, because you might get caught. Most terrorists are well educated, financially backed and well organised. They will come in on legitimate visas such as education and skilled work visas so as not to arouse suspicion.

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Liebling:-)))

I was confused by those posts and want to have a double check with you on this.


As what you says that it's illegal for any companies to offer illegal immigrants the job but they work to pay the tax... ? It means that it's legal for illegal immigrants to have the job in your country because of pay the tax?


Illegal immigrants here in Germany work in private households to earn money... or support from their families and friends, etc or work at black markets. They cannot get job without residence permit. They even don't have any medical care, education, school, etc.



I have mixed feeling after read those link...

Illegal Immigrants in Germany: No Work, School or Medical Care

Illegal Immigrants in Germany: No Work, School or Medical Care - JOURNAL CHRETIEN

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Yes, it's same here in Germany, too.

I would like to share about my knowledge here in Germany. Landlord will get in trouble for offer illegal immigrants to live in their house... Some of landlord have good heart for illegal immigrants and offer them to live with them with no money required but get them to work as household for them... Some work in black markets to earn... I find sad that the people treat illegal immigrants as "slave" and "cheap" labor... pay them cheap... or some illegal immigrants earn money to sell their bodies in black market which is very risk... (since the Prostitution is legal in 2002 due tax)... It's very tough life for illegal immigrants... It's best choice for them is go back to their own country if their application for extend are being reject.

Yes I second that.


True

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sequoias

All I can say there are a lot of loopholes in the govt system and the illegal immigrants themseves. Nothing will stop them anyway.

PuyoPiyo

Well it doesn't matter, when they are in the country, they still pay the taxes. They paid the taxes while shop the clothes. Yeah I know illegal immigrants workers do not pay taxes with their paycheck.

Foxrac

Certain of illegal immigrants are require to pay taxes via paycheck and doesn't want companies in trouble.

They can't file on tax return due absence of SSN care or green card.

I think that medical care in USA does treat illegal immigrants, also need pay to them in cash or other methods, unlike in Germany because germany offers free medical center then wouldn't be free for illegal immigrants.

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Foxrac

That's true, it won't stop on them.

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PowerON

Right now, there are few city have make small law that make more strict that immigrating without SS or green card, will not live or get job at all. Here in two sub pass the law.

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Foxrac

for example like they will make fine on landloard for let illegal immigrants to rent the unit, like happened in one city in Florida but can't remember.

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Reba

Money that is saved in bank accounts in the USA is used to support the economic system of the USA by making funds available for investment and loans. Money that is sent out of the USA doesn't help our country at all.


In the USA, some benefits and services depend on the state in which they reside. All children in the USA (including illegal aliens) are allowed to attend public schools. In general (not always), illegal aliens can use routine medical services on a cash basis, or they can use "free" services at emergency rooms where they don't get turned away.

Some landlords charge higher for rents because the aliens are stuffing 12 unrelated adults into a 2-bedroom apartment, which is more wear and tear on the space, and higher utility use.

If landlords are charging higher but not reporting it to IRS, then they are breaking the law. If landlords are allowing too many people to rent a small space then they are possibly breaking occupancy laws.

Many illegal aliens without drivers licenses drive uninsured vehicles, and then cause hit and run accidents or accidents for which there is no insurance recourse for the victims. When an uninsured, unlicensed alien driver drives drunk and hits a tree at 120 mph, who pays for medical bills if he lives for a while? Who pays for his funeral and shipping his body back to his home country? Suppose an uninsured driver hits a little girl walking down the street and she needs medical care? Who pays the bill?

BTW, those aren't hypothetical events. These are taken from my daily local newspaper.

Examples from Charleston.net:

[quote]...The coroner's office handles 12 times more cases a year now than it did two years ago, said Greenville Coroner Parks Evans. "Nine out of every 10 (illegal immigrant) deaths, we have problems with identification," Evans said.
Last month, Deputy Coroner Karie Cane was faced with identifying a 49-year-old man who had two Mexican identification cards--same photograph, different names--and no family in Greenville..."


If their families are not allowed to enter the country illegally in the first place, then they won't grow up here uneducated or poor, and they won't be here to commit crimes.


If it's so hard and risky to enter the USA illegally, then where are all these thousands of illegal aliens coming from? No, the problem is it's NOT hard to sneak in.

Those who come in on legal visas but stay beyond the expiration date, or never attend the school are also illegal aliens. Whether they come first class on a plane or wade thru the Rio Grande, they are still ILLEGAL.

R2D2

That's true. But many legal migrants also send their savings home to support families in poverty. Is that bad or immoral? The USA is a rich country by any standard, it's not exactly short of capital for investment and loans.

Yes. I acknowledge that this is an undesirable problem that has an impact on those who are affected. But also on the other hand if the illegals are the victims of road accidents, then there is no recourse for them either.

ISure, there will just be more poor people in the countries from which they originated. The good thing is that they won't be your problem, right?

When I said "hard and risky" I meant for a terrorist, not for an ordinary person who just wants to improve their economic situation but who would not be eligible for any visas. I'm sure if they could get a visa, they would have gone for that option first. There is a much lower frustration rate for an intended terrorist who applies for a work visa and gets granted one than for a terrorist that makes a night run across the border which is policed by guards and self appointed vigilants. I hear that many illegals actually die of hunger and thirst while crossing the border - is that true?

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Liebling:-)))

Conn. city offers ID cards to illegal immigrants
Move intended to provide access to community services

City offers ID cards to illegal immigrants - U.S. Life - MSNBC.com

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Reba

If the driver was another illegal alien without insurance, then that's true. But if the driver is an insured American citizen, then the illegal alien can collect damages from the driver.


The citizens of that country need to put pressure on the leaders of their own country, and get conditions improved where they live. The leaders of those countries (such as Mexico) encourage illegal border crossing because it takes pressure off of them at home.


What vigilanties? Please back up your claim.


Yes, and do you know who is to blame?

1. Paid coyotes (usually fellow Mexicans) who rob and then abandon them in the desert.

2. Illegal border crossers who don't know how to prepare for a desert crossing.


Do you know who rescues them?

1. American border guards who provide them with water and first aid.