Reba

Did their children say what?

Deafness

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Liebling:-)))

You said yourself that they are happy at their live.... clothing.... sports....


Again, I need to hear children's side...

I am not telling parents what do with their live but my own POV. Is it forbid to share my POV what I thought of this?

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Casperman

big families was a thing in past my great grandpa and great grandma had 12 kids, 62 grandkids over 100 great grandkids.. that can tell how BIG families was in past... presently maybe 3 or 4 kids, between 4 to 16 grandkids etc

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Reba

Do you have proof that the children said otherwise?

Yes, I said children can enjoy themselves without wearing jeans and t-shirts. I had a very enjoyable childhood, played every kind of game, and rarely wore jeans or t-shirts as a kid. I still see it happen today. Why should kids be so hung up on their clothing?

News flash! Until the late 1960's, kids' (especially girls') "play clothes" were NOT commonly jeans and t-shirts. And yet, kids spent more time outdoors running around and playing than they do now.

OK. Until then, we won't assume they are happy or unhappy about their childhood.

For the umpteenth time, no, your POV is not "forbid". Alldeaf is not a Nazi regime where freedom of speech is verboten.

Of course, that means opposing points of view are also allowed.

WildHunt

I read last night that they had their 17th baby, named Jennifer... but they plan to keep having more.

The vagina is not a clown car, IMO.

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LuciaDisturbed

I agree! ROFLMAO!

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DeviantArt

Liebling:-)))

The Duggar are willing to let "God" decide how many children they should have is an unbelievable.

I think Michelle is in love with being pregnant and want our attention, that´s all.

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RedheadGrrl

Now she wants more kids. I bet she will get pregnant again next year.

jillio

Well.....maybe ONE kind of self pleasure!

Aleser

This has reduced me to a fit of laughter. You seem absolutely shocked that someone would deem their CREATOR, their G-D, the one most IMPORTANT THING IN THEIR WORLD be the one that decides if they should have more children.

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Audiofuzzy

You ASSUME they're happy. I think the parents does are happy, sure- they have older kids to do their work for them.

I am not saying children shouldn't help their parents with little kids ever, sure they do, it also helps to create a bond between siblings
but as I've said before there is a difference between having to help occasionally or under parent's supervision and being forced to be a baby's unpaid caretaker.

Whoever had to hire babysitter knows it cost money.
Duggars' kids has to do it for free just because it's mommy and daddy who can't keep their urges under control and are too selfish to use birth control.

Have you ever heard of Bountiful, Reba:

Bountiful: Inside B.C's Polygamist Breakaway Community

15 years old girls married to 50 y old polygamic preverts. Girls not allowed to have education at all. Sure they are happy. It's called brainwash...

Fuzzy

ClearSky

I don't have a clue when they'll stop. I personally don't really have much concern. I think it's their problem to handle, and if they're doing well, then okay. As long as they think alike and are on the same page about their goals in life, then it seems to be okay.

I had forgotten about this family, but I searched them a bit. I came to the conclusion that the reason this family's well kept is because of their family unity. You know that these are not wild kids who wanna party and go away from home and be with friends. That makes it much easier on the family to handle more children. The mother very likely follows well with parenting.

Parenting isn't just changing diapers and telling a child not to touch hot stoves or telling them not to be rude to other people. It's much more deeper than that. Some of the parents today are not involved in their childrens' lives as well as I think the Duggars are. Obviously, if parents are not accepting of the fact that they need to do much more than provide food and shelter, then it's going to sound impossible to have a large family. Obviously, having a good father who provides real well is very helpful to have a mom stay home and pay everything else.

Also, I know you say not to mention religion, but I really think I have a point in this. I really think their Christian values helps tons especially with praying. Sorry, but I think prayers changes everything, and I think it's why they're able to manage well. That's all I am saying. I don't need to go deep into the Bible.

Reba

Are you ASSUMING that they're not happy?


Yes, I've heard of it. What does that have to do with the Duggar family? They aren't polygamists. They aren't married to minors. Their kids are educated. I don't see any connection at all.

Audiofuzzy

It's not that. You said "they are happy" with such surety that I simply wanted to point out that anyone can only assume they are happy - after all all we know is from TV.

Second, I have Bountiful as an example how with enough brainwashing anybody will feel happy in whatever situation.
For example, a 15 years old girl may think she's happy marrying a 50 years old goat, heck, she may even think of it as an honor, moreover she is honored being just one of the many wives - and likewise children in Duggars family may think they are one big happy family because they grew up being thaught this is right.

That's the connection between the two.

Nevertheless - do I assume they are unhappy? hmmm I don't assume or-or - I think the truth as always is in between - but certainly I feel there is more to the rosy TV picture.. I feel deep down SOME Duggars children may feel resentment for never ending workloads... only they would never openly admit it.

because that would be admitting to themselves they are not one big happy family after all, and the whole rosy picture would be ruined.
Things would have to be deal with, and it's not easy to demand answers to the many "whys".


I have a friend whose 10 years older sister as an adult admitted she feel resentment toward her, because as children she had to look after her, take her everywhere for some years.

It was nowhere as serious as Duggars family, and yet enough to complain about ruining her childhood - even if she understood the real fault lies with the parent not her sister who as child had nothing to do with their parents decisions. Of course they loved each other and were close enough as in any nice family - because they were (still are) nice family.
And yet, nevertheless...



Fuzzy

VamPyroX

Whew... #17. Within a few months, we're gonna hear them announce that #18 is on the way.

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Reba

Is this the post you're referring to?

My response referred to the parents, not the children. I said that there is no reason for the parents to hire nannies and maids if they're happy with the way they're doing things. I haven't read anything where the parents said that they aren't happy with the way they have their lives set up, or that they want to change the way they manage their family. The parents don't complain about not having nannies or maids, so why should they hire some?


There are also normal people in this world who are generally happy with their lives without being subjected to brainwashing.

Or they might actually be happy--it does happen.


A family doesn't necessarily have to be a 100 percent, 24/7/365 "rosy" picture in order to be a wonderful family. I don't know any, do you?

RedheadGrrl

Like I said at number 68 that they ll go for 18th next year.

Audiofuzzy

I see, of course if you reffer to the parents I would too assume they are most likely happy living their life the way they want.


If I was boasting about having baby after baby for 17 years I wouldn't admit I am unhappy or whatehever either.. I am sure I don't have to explain why.



Why indeed - if they have their own children to do this for free.

yes of course, except most of these people live in normal families - no polygamy, no underage marriages, and on average 2-3 children in one family.
Neither Bountifil nor Duggars is average or even anywhere close to average.

I sure can not contradict you here. Neither of us have any proof if these children are happy or unhappy. Personally I doubt they are truly happy.

No, not 24/7356 but the difference between Duggars children and other families is exactly that the Duggars have to work in their own family 24/7/365

whereas children in all families I know don't.

Fuzzy

Reba

Who has declared that 2-3 children is "normal", and large families are not?


I guess time will tell. We'll have to wait until the children write their books.


Less than 100 years ago, large families were desirable in the USA, especially (but not exclusively) in the rural areas. Poor farm families, and wealthy sophisticated families all wanted lots of children. The trend began to shift when more families moved to the cities, and then later the suburbs, where space was at a premium, and the children weren't needed for labor.

Ah, speaking of labor; previous to that time, most children worked a lot harder than even the Duggar children do. Kids worked long and hard on farms, in factories and mines, and in mom-and-pop shops. I don't advocate those conditions again for children but I also don't compare what the Duggar children do with sweat-shop labor either.

Tousi

I'd guess it'd be safe to assume they are a relatively happy unit; otherwise, they wouldn't have come this far, would they?

Catmandu

They agreed to have more... just more girls since they have more boys in the family.

Reba

How do they plan to have just girls? Where did you see that?

Catmandu

I read up the news the other day at work and been trying to find that article. I can't remember what site, but I searched in google news and found this. They didn't say how they're planning to have girls, but they're going to keep doing it [whenever!].

Link:
washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Reba

So, they said only that they would love to have more girls but they didn't say they would have only girls.

Audiofuzzy

What's "normal" is usually defined by "average". It's a very wide definition, though. I am not saying they are abnormal in away that for example they are mentally disturbed, of course.

If you see by the average standards, most families since long are mostly a model of 2 + 3, sometimes +4, less frequent +5,
and while 7 or 8 children in a family is not that uncommon - please!, but 17 ????????
way out of ordinairy. certainly not average. I dare say even by a 100 years ago standards.


Less than 100 years ago. a 100 years, Reba.
A hundred years passed since then, times has changed. The main reason of such large number of children was high mortality. A lot of children died early back then. Also, free labor.

Yes, and that become outlawed since then, for a reason.
No, of course the Duggars children are not living in sweatshop conditions but they certainly are robbed of their childhood privileges. This time will never be back. Come on, don't you pity them nothing, Reba?

The Duggars seem to be doing well but I know of a woman who died from emaciation after giving birth to her 13 child. It wasn't an alcoholic, pathological family - just poor family, but they believed in "God's will".
Now the family and newborn is without mother, and the father had to quit his job to take care of the youngest. They live on measly social assistance and from charity. Certainly not fun and picture of happiness. Especially now with the mother gone.
So, not neccessary everyone's happy to "come this far"....

Fuzzy

Reba

That number of children might not be "average" in the USA or Europe but that doesn't mean they are not "normal."

I know families with 8-10 children but not 17, that's true. Most North American and European families have 1-3 children, which means native born citizens of those countries are declining in population. Immigrant families moving into those countries from outside the areas have many more children per family, so the entire demographics are changing.

Large families might not be right for you or me but that doesn't mean they are "wrong" either.


Grandparents on both sides of my family had 8 and 9 children each, respectively. They all made it to adulthood. They didn't live on farms on in the cities; they were modest "townies". Other than household and garden chores, and taking care of their siblings (gasp!), they didn't do any outside labor as children. When they were teens they got "jobs". They weren't considered "free labor"--they were members of a family that worked together. None of them felt "deprived" or warped by their parents. They all had pleasant childhood memories. I know because we still have family reunions every two years to talk about these things, and I have read some of their diaries and letters.


That's good.


What childhood "privileges" have been robbed from them? They said that they have time to play. They have a warm, safe, clean home, nutritious food, loving family members, etc. They know where their parents are, they don't live in a dangerous neighborhood, they get opportunities of enrichment (such as music training) that many children never get. There are many children in much worse situations who would gladly trade places with them.

I'll save my pity for children who are truly suffering. Unless we learn otherwise, the Duggar children don't need our pity.


And some moms die in childbirth after one baby, or in a car wreck on the way home from the hospital. Sad, awful things happen. That doesn't mean the same thing will happen to everyone else.

As long as the Duggars don't force their lifestyle on other families, why should we care? Unless you have proof that their children are being neglected or abused, then they should be left alone.

Which parents here at AllDeaf really want other people telling them how to raise their families, or when to have babies or not have babies?

Any volunteers?

rockdrummer

I heard an interview with Mr. Duggar and he said that his wife loves to be pregnent and it's up to her if she wants more kids. He also said that his wife does want more. She has been pregnent for 25% of her life. They consider each of their children a blessing from God. He said that it's eaiser now with so many kids because they all help out.

Audiofuzzy

They'd say whatever on TV.
And personally, I don't think public complaining would do any good to the family, notwitstanding.

Having 17 kids is like having an entire classroom in your house. Yes the house is safe an clean but apart form it - where is concentrating on this one child, on his physical, social needs, emotional needs?
If you have a baby every year, how, where and when do you have time to be devoted to this one child growth and nurture it?

You are still nursing the last one while your oldest is 17. And all mothers know how much time a little baby requires. It's simply impossible. Once you are weaned off (hopefully at least after 6 months) - you are on your own. The next baby arrives. You are being passed down to older children who no matter how reasonable are still kids in needs to be taken care off themselves.
That's the lost privileges I am talking about.

An older child who has to take care of the youngsters, plus given plenty of chores, would be better off studying instead, or socialising with peers, or just do whatever the kids of any age do to recharge themselves.
Sure it's not a sweatshop conditons at Duggars, as you called it Reba,
but I am sorry - I do not think a parents of 17 children are able to give adequate care and attention as a parent, an adult, should give.
It's enough difficult if you have 5, 6, 7 kids lets alone 17.



Of course not everyone have died, but still the main reason apart from lack of education, and lack of birth control, was still high mortality.
While your family have nice memories, and I am happy for you - once again if you grow up certain way you think it's the right way. Having good, loving parents also helps, sure.

But - let's not forget 9 kids is still a far way from 17, and wanting more.



Yes of course but lets not get carried away and compare some unforseen labor complications, or pure accidents, to the death from completely preventable years of physical exhaustion caused simply by being pregnant, giving birth to and nursing 12 children. The woman's body simply just gave up after giving birth to the number 13 from exhaustion, nothing less nothing more.


Excatly, and let's not lose this fact from sight. That's the whole point of this discussion.

But you know what Reba- I see we will never agree on this one. I respect your view, and accept it. You think such a large family is fine, and I don't - quite. But I'm fine with your view.

So let's agree to disagree. Otherwise we will just keep throwing back and forth the same arguments..




Fuzzy

VamPyroX

They will probably go for their 18th THIS year.

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Reba

OK.