Vance

Associated Press

WAYNESVILLE, N.C. - The minister of a Haywood County Baptist church is telling members of his congregation that if they're Democrats, they either need to find another place of worship or support President Bush.

Already, the Reverend Chan Chandler has ex-communicated nine members of East Waynesville Baptist Church. Another 40 members have left in protest.

During last Sunday's sermon, he acknowledged that church members were upset because he named people, and he says he'll do it again because he has to according to the word of God.

Chandler could not be reached for comment today, but says his actions weren't politically motivated.

One former church member says Chandler told some of the members that if they didn't support George Bush, they needed to resign their positions and get out of the church, or go to the altar, repent and agree to vote for Bush.

A former church treasurer says she's at church to worship God and not the preacher.

Source: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld...l/11582657.htm


Indeed. And oh, here's video for you to get a look (unfortunately no closed caption).

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

The*Empress

well that is his church, he can do whatever he wants to.

My preacher in Memphis hate gay people, he told everyone
that gay is wrong. He made joke about gay people and all.

He was also on a Christian TV program too...
telling the world that Gay is wrong.

And the Christians are following everything he said,
my family members and friends in California gave
good comment to my mom about the preacher.

__________________

Oceanbreeze

No, Ms P, he can't. It's categorically wrong to tell someone they have to support a certain political candidate just because that's the candidate that particular church is supporting.

This is exactly why we should NOT mix church and state. Religion and politics should NOT be mixed. Period!

__________________
"And I don't want the world to see me
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am" ~Goo Goo Dolls Iris

Beowulf

I knew this would happen eventually.
Ach.

Attached Images

godbush.gif (39.1 KB, 6 views)

The*Empress

Well Democrats try to get Blacks to vote for them.
And Rev. Jesse Jackson was trying to get Blacks to vote Democrats.
So Christians are voting Republicans.

I sorry if it is wrong, but we gotta accept that.

__________________

Vance

Agreed. That's what I was (and still do) concerning about. It is unfortunate that some people didn't see that way.

Beowulf, hahaha, that's good one.

Oceanbreeze

Each and every person has a right to support the candidate they feel is right for the job. I voted for Bush, and I'll freely admit that. I do not have a problem with someone just because they voted for a different candidate than I. It's not up to me to tell you who to vote for. That's for you to decide. It's also not up to anybody to do that, either. It just burns my butt when people try to tell others what to do.

Okay, Mag. You did it. You're to blame. You managed to find something to post that was gonna piss me off!

Oh, and btw...Thank you.

__________________
"And I don't want the world to see me
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am" ~Goo Goo Dolls Iris

Vance

Hahaha, you are more than welcome!

But be sure to watch out for blood pressure

netrox

I am glad 30 left in protest. It's a real disgrace.

-jeff

Nesmuth

He can excommunicate all he likes as that will mean less money in his offering baskets. And that can open his ministry to a lot of interesting legal implications not excluding the one Jacko ended up in.

Richard

jazzy

I had a run in with my Catholic fellowers last year about Kerry, they said Kerry is bad Catholic and should not be voted. I guess any church has a way with people whom they should vote. That is why I want no part of any of them, mind controllers.

Oceanbreeze

This is true, so I guess the idiot is shooting himself in the foot by all that ex-communicating he's doing.

To that, I say, good!

__________________
"And I don't want the world to see me
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am" ~Goo Goo Dolls Iris

Reba

Very bizarre.

Our pastor never asks members to which political party they belong.

Our Baptist church does not include ex-communication in its constitution because that is a Catholic procedure. If a member of our church commits a public sin and does not repent, then the member is voted out of the congregation by the other members. That only happens after the pastor and deacons have met with that member several times first to try to resolve the problem privately. If the member refuses, then it is brought to the congregation for a vote.

Our pastor is not allowed to ex-communicate anyone, ever.

That church is a strange situation.

Vance

Church Split In North Carolina Shows Dangers Of Partisan Politics In Pulpit, Says Americans United

Church Electioneering Bill In Congress Would Invite More Disputes Over Politics In Houses Of Worship, Says AU's Lynn

A bitter controversy over partisan politics at a North Carolina church shows the danger of electioneering in the pulpit, according to Americans United of Separation of Church and State.

According to news media reports, the Rev. Chan Chandler of East Waynesville Baptist Church in Haywood County told members that they must vote for President George W. Bush. Nine members who did not do so have since been told to leave the congregation. An additional 40 members have reportedly left in protest.

“This is an outrage,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “Houses of worship exist to bring people together for worship, not split them apart over partisan politics.

“I think there is an important lesson here for the whole country,” Lynn continued. “Americans do not expect to be ordered to vote for certain candidates by their religious leaders.”

Religious Right groups have been pressing evangelical churches to get deeply involved in partisan politics, Lynn said, and this kind of controversy is the natural outcome.

Lynn said matters will become even worse if a bill now pending in Congress becomes federal law.

H.R. 235, a measure introduced by Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.), would allow clergy to endorse candidates from the pulpit and still retain a tax exemption of their house of worship.

“Introducing partisan politics into our churches is a terrible idea,” said AU’s Lynn. “I hope this incident in North Carolina will cause our members of Congress to reject Rep. Jones’ bill.”

Source: http://www.au.org/site/News2?JServSe...s_iv_ctrl=1241


Scary, eh?

Edit: It appears that they are planning to do that from the start. More information about this H.R. 235: http://www.hr235.org/. Here's two nice verses about these people...And...

Reba

I don't know what is so new about it. Black churches have been endorsing Democrat candidates from their pulpits for many years. Nobody made a stink about that.

Beowulf

That is a breathtakingly racist thing to say, Reba.
You show your true colors here.
They should make a stink about it?
The Republican party has worked hard to disenfranchise the black votes.
They succeeded.
They should NOT make a stink about it?

harleymn

do you believe magastu only on one source nah not me i would investigate more than one source before i believe anything

Banjo

Typical response, anything that reek of liberalism is to be rejected according to you.

Vance

Typical comment from a americanized conservative. Reality check for you: http://www.hr235.org/ -- it is a conservative/Religious Right site. I gather that is quite annoying when you put your foot in your mouth, no? *set the ignore feature back*

Indeed. No matter how many sources I will post, it does not mean anything to them. No matter what is wrong or what is right, all it does matter to them is their own beliefs. [add] I posted few links from conservative sites concerning about Iraq at Freeper site one or two weeks ago and guess what? They banned me for it & deleted my posts faster than I can blink. Even if it is from conservative site, they don't give any damn but only their beliefs. [/add]

Before everyone else can jump over all on me about my comment, I 'evolved' into semi-conservative and semi-liberal when I read a lot.. real lots of books & articles about conservatism and liberalism. In other words, I am not 'stuck' in blackhole by my beliefs like some people. So get off my back.

Can you post the link or something, I'd like to read about that one. But if they actually endorsed Democrat candidates, I believe they will lose a tax exemption. And I don't think they would kick the republicans out like what Baptist Church in NC did. Or unless, you have some proofs that say otherwise? I am not challenging you but I'd like to read and see for myself.

Reba

How is that racist? That was a political statement about the Democrats. It is obvious that people get all worked up about pastors making partisan political statements from the pulpit only if it is conservative. Politicking for liberal candidates is overlooked. The rules should be the same for all churches.

If only you really knew how "un-racist" I truly am. I have actively supported equal civil rights for all races longer than most ADers have been alive, ha, ha.

Reba

It might take a while to find each story where each church endorsed a candidate. I can start with some general statements, and then search for the exact examples. It's a little harder now because no one is campaigning. I'll try to get a few tonight before I go to bed.

This first one is an editorial, so it is just an introduction.

"...Black churches have become the forum for liberal Democrats to make campaign speeches, raise funds and get publicity. Bill Clinton did it so much he eventually was dubbed the first black President in America. ..

Can you imagine, though, if President Herbert Walker Bush had gone around to Episcopal churches in 1988 collecting money? Or what do you think the IRS and the national media would say if President Bush ’43 would preach in Evangelical churches where the collection plate would be passed around on his behalf.

There would be lawsuits and demands for Congressional hearings and local investigations galore. It would become THE issue in the campaign. Heck, President Bush can hardly go to church without it being an issue and when he does he says nothing and not a dime is raised on his behalf.

I was about to say that I didn’t understand how Kerry gets by with what he is doing. But I do understand it. He knows that the IRS will turn a blind eye toward what happens in black churches. That is a fact. And he knows that the Republicans won’t say a word lest they be called “racist”. So he is home free.

...Now Kerry busies himself in black churches in the blue states and I’m not suggesting that Bush waste a lot of time where he has little chance anyway. But surely he can spare a couple of Sundays to test what would happen in those same black churches that are busy taking up collections for “our brother John Kerry”.

My advice to Senator Kerry is to stick with the black churches. He’ll get money from that source and he won’t run the risk of some priest at his own church saying, “I’m sorry Senator. I’ve been instructed by my bishop not to give you Communion”. He’ll get lots of favorable coverage going to black churches. By going to his own he just might cause at least some of the media to remind voters just how far apart he is from Church teachings.

Separation of church and state? That is only a meaningless slogan when Kerry visits the black community on a Sunday."

http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/print.../6/94845.shtml

Only Democrats May Misuse Churches as Campaign Halls

The news that the former vice president on Sunday will exploit black churches, as he and Clinton and Kerry have done before, will exacerbate another controversy. ABC reported that “it was believed he would be campaigning Sunday in a number of churches throughout Florida's African-American community.”

The Anti-religious Left as well as the Religious Left, both of which raise Cain when President Bush speaks to or seeks the support of religious audiences, have been as quiet as usual about the Democrats’ tactics, but others are denouncing the double standard.


A sampling of letters from NewsMax’s readers:


Norma Lee, St. Joseph, Mo.: “Why doesn't someone say something about the politicking done by the Democrats in Black churches. If an evangelical church would do something like this, actually invite the candidate to come to their church without equal time for the other candidate, the ACLU and People for the American Way would be having fits and calling the IRS. Where in the world is the fairness in these elections! An evangelical pastor has to only preach on moral issues today and he is faced with threat of the IRS police.”

B. Campbell, Mount Laurel, N.J.: “Please tell me why it is that Democrats can go to black churches for services and get up and campaign, but if Republicans did the same the press would be very critical. These churches do not pay taxes so what happened to separation of church and state???”

Skip Talley of Leawood, Kan.: “If Bush had campaigned at a ‘white’ church as Kerry did at black churches in Florida, liberals and the ACLU would make a big deal out of it and try to get the church's tax exempt status revoked.”

Christopher Garner of Miami: “John Kerry was campaigning in two African American churches this weekend in Florida. I was a little confused because I thought there was something called separation of church and state. I know that this myth is only important to liberals when a conservative is linked to a conservative Christian group or church. I e-mailed Americans United, an organization that protects us from religion getting into the public debate but so far no response. If possible could you shed some light on this seemingly contradictory stand?”

Elliot Yudenfriend, Metamora, Ill.: “I would like to know why NewsMax Magazine has not published any articles with concern to the repeated IRS violations by John Kerry in taking his campaign into churches. Doing such a thing is a blatant violation of IRS regulations which state that if a candidate campaigns at a church, his opponent must be there, too, or be given equal time.”


http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/print...2/152415.shtml


Friday, Oct. 22, 2004 12:09 a.m. EDT
Philly Mayor Enlists Black Clergy in Kerry Vote Drive

Philadelphia Mayor John Street is pressing his city's clergymen to actively campaign for John Kerry, urging them to join a get-out-the-vote drive on behalf of the Democratic ticket.

"We have to get our people out to the polls, and we have to get them out in a big sort of way," Mayor Street told 100 pastors gathered at Philadelphia's national black clergy summit earlier this month. "If the clergy in this country says 'get out to the polls and vote for John Kerry,' our people will go." Apparently immune from federal law barring church involvement in political campaigns, Philadelphia's clergy has long been active in Democratic Party politics.

Reporting on Street's entreaty to clergyman earlier this week, the Philadelphia Inquirer noted:

"African American pastors in Philadelphia mobilized an army of church volunteers from their traditionally Democratic memberships to help drive [Street] to victory in 1999 and to an overwhelming reelection last year."

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The paper adds:

"Black Clergy of Philadelphia and Vicinity, an influential group of pastors from about 450 churches, has voted to back the Democratic ticket and is gearing up a 'Take Your Soul to the Poll' campaign in hopes of delivering the African American electorate on election day."

Kerry campaign staffer Don Jones boasted to the Inquirer, "We've activated every minister." And he urged members of their flocks to vote even if they're not registered.

"Our message is: Do not walk out of that polling place, do not say, 'Oh, I thought I was registered but I guess I'm not,' " Jones said. "Vote. Use a provisional ballot. Get out there."

Provisional ballots were legalized under the 2002 "Help America Vote Act," and allow unregistered voters to vote, pending certification after the election.

The Kerry campaign has a staff of 10 working on outreach efforts involving black churches.

http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/print...2/121128.shtml

Reba

Kerry Stumps for Black Voters at Churches
NewsMax Wires
Sunday, Oct. 10, 2004
MIAMI - With just three Sundays left before Election Day, Sen. John Kerry is asking for all the help he can get from black voters and the Almighty.

The Democratic presidential nominee attended two church services Sunday, instead of his usual one, worshipping first with Haitian Catholics and then with black Baptists, where the Rev. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton tied his election to the civil rights struggle.
"We have an unfinished march in this nation," Kerry said at Friendship Missionary Baptist Church, as many congregants waved fans handed out by the campaign with his slogan, "Hope is on the way."

http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/print...0/174148.shtml

Pastor says he's frustrated by candidates who 'pimp' black church
12/24/2003

PORTSMOUTH, N.H. -- The pastor of a black church said he is frustrated by presidential candidates who use his congregation as a backdrop for campaign photos rather than a sounding board for a serious discussion of issues.

"I'm tired of people coming in here to pimp the church," the Rev. Arthur Hilson of New Hope Baptist Church said during a Sunday sermon in which he also endorsed the presidential candidacy of Carol Moseley Braun, a Democrat who is black.

"Come because you want to be here," Hilson appealed to the candidates. "Don't come here because you want to use me or our people."

Hilson said Monday his criticism was aimed at presidential candidates whom he feels have taken advantage of the opportunity to visit the church, rather than truly listening to the concerns of the congregation.

Photos taken during those visits can make it appear as if the pastor and his wife, Lady Hilson, endorsed those candidates, he said.

"I get (candidate) calls ... and they say, 'I want to come' ... and they say, 'Can you have your wife at the door, to meet them'...," said Hilson. "That's a photo op, that's really clear.

"When the Dean people came they said, 'Can you be at the door and have your wife with you?' " he said.

Hilson noted that one of the photos taken during that Dean visit appeared in an issue of Newsweek. The photo showed Dean standing beside Lady Hilson, but the caption did not indicate the picture was taken in New Hampshire, and it was used in a story about Dean seeking the southern African-American vote.

The Dean campaign indicated it was disappointed Hilson took the occasion of their candidate's visit in a way that had not been intended.

"It's very unfortunate that Reverend Hilson feels this way," said Matthew Gardner, Dean's New Hampshire press secretary. "Gov. Dean very much enjoys meeting with people throughout New Hampshire, and we felt warmly received by the reverend and other members of the congregation."

Hilson said Braun's visit was different in character.

"At no time did Braun's people ask me to have anybody anywhere," he said. "They simply came into the church and took seats."

Hilson's church also has been visited by Connecticut Sen. Joseph Lieberman and Missouri U.S. Rep.Dick Gephardt.

He said he wants presidential candidates to continue coming to his church.

But, he added, "When you come, come honestly ... come speak to us as you speak to America," he said. "Don't feel that you have to have a special message for us because what is good for America is good for us (African-Americans)."

© Copyright 2003 Associated Press.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/...church?mode=PF

Reba

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ele...,4733553.story

Black church group starts ad campaign attacking Ehrlich
Congressman's record on guns, cigarette tax focus of the radio spots

By Howard Libit
Sun Staff

September 12, 2002

The Interdenominational Ministerial Alliance will jump into the battle to define Republican Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. today by launching a radio advertising campaign attacking his positions on gun control, cigarette taxes and casino-style gambling.

The radio ad -- almost identical to one that the group aired against Republican Ellen R. Sauerbrey in the 1998 gubernatorial campaign -- contends that Ehrlich is controlled by the "rich special interests" associated with guns, tobacco and gambling.

Schurick criticized the alliance for releasing the ad to the news media yesterday, a day when Gov. Parris N. Glendening had requested a temporary halt to political campaigns to honor the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks. "It's disgusting that a group of religious leaders would do this on a day of national mourning," he said.

The alliance -- which is made up of more than 200 predominantly African-American churches and has endorsed Townsend -- intends to spend at least $20,000 for time on Baltimore and Washington radio stations.

Copyright © 2005, The Baltimore Sun

Reba

http://archives.postandcourier.com/a...11505161.shtml

Democratic contenders look to S.C. black voters
Published on 12/21/03
BY SCHUYLER KROPF
Of The Post and Courier Staff

For the first time in history, a state with a large black voting population sits prominently at the front end of the Democratic Party's selection process. ..

"The candidate that wins the African-American vote here will send the signal they can win the African-American vote across the country," said College of Charleston political scientist Jamie McKown, who studies Democratic politics. "Symbolically, it's extremely important."

...The battle for South Carolina started months ago as part of a unique ground war in which several of the contenders began making campaign donations to the state's black mayors and political figures from their political action committees. It since has moved to get-out-the-vote drives street by street and church by church as the campaigns assemble lists of supporters they can mobilize by car, truck or van in the 12 hours the polls are open.

In the meantime, getting endorsements has been an around-the-clock pursuit since most of the campaigns equate collecting endorsements to front-runner status.

"The pressure has been, I won't say relentless, but it's been heavy and steady in the last couple weeks," said state Sen. Clementa Pinckney, D-Jasper, whose endorsement is attractive as both an elected official and an AME minister on Yonge's Island.

Some of the Democratic camps have reacted by emphasizing their candidates' civil rights credentials. .. Lieberman talks about his faith when he enters black churches.

Reba

http://archives.postandcourier.com/a...31742620.shtml

GOP Senate candidates hit church circuit to court voters
Published on 05/23/04
BY SCHUYLER KROPF
Of The Post and Courier Staff
Churchgoers in North Charleston may find a well-groomed stranger sitting in the pew next to them today. Don't worry: He's just a Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate stopping by to hear the sermon — and stump for votes.

U.S. Rep. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., will travel three hours from his Greenville base, where he's a household name, to attend services at Northside Baptist Church.

...In most cases, the visiting candidates don