Beowulf

I am not sure what you want.
Hmmm, Minutemen ambushed the British at various points and quickly retreated.
The Iraq guerillas do the same.
The methods may be different but the intent is the same.
Is this what you mean?

Deafness

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Beowulf

Lol, Codger, I was classified 1-A until my father made a phone call to clear up the snafu.

Codger

Ha ha ha ! O.K. I understand now. I was classified 3A until I went and showed them I could still shoot with an amputated finger. The Marines said I wasn't a whole man , but the Army loved me! 1A at last!

ravensteve1961

Just like israel soldier opened fires on a innocent 10 year old palestinian girl. They dont know if shes carrying a bomb to blow herself up in front of soldiers. Al Queda plays a very dirty war. Sometimes you have to kill innocent people to protect yourself.

Beowulf

Getting back to the topic...Surprise, surprise, the hostage Guliana Sigrena angrily disputes the military's version of what happened.
Why am I not surprised?
Something stinks.
When the Iraq war started, a hell of a lot of journalists were getting killed, more than the number of soldiers, proportionately speaking.
Looks like that practice is still ongoing.

Codger

Each year in January, the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) publishes a list of journalists killed in the line of duty around the world. This list has become the most widely cited press freedom statistic and is often seen as a barometer of the state of global press freedom.


http://www.cpj.org/killed/Ten_Year_K...2004_list.html

Reba

No, I am referring to this statement:
Do you have specific examples of Americans executing civilian Crown supporters in a manner that can be equated with Iraqi carbombings?

Reba

Sounds like a possible touch of Stockholm syndrome.

Beowulf

Of course I can. Try the assault on the British and Tory camp at Camden, South Carolina. Out militiamen killed both British soldiers and (American) Tories. The only reason there were no carbombs was because they were not available at the time. In warfare, one uses whatever is at hand.

Beowulf

And her companions had the same Syndrome even though they were not hostages? They tell the same story.

Codger

Would you like to discuss Canadian military coverups and brutality? No, I didn't think so. You don't sound like you even looked at the website I provided detailing the journalists killed over there. Their own website.

Codger

I see. So somalia doesn't count.

The 2005 link shows two journalist deaths at the time in Iraq. The al Queda and other Islamic fundamentalist groups claimed responsibility in both cases.

Reba

Because she is sympathizing with her former captors, and also sees their enemy as her enemy. She would have a prejudiced perspective of what happened. I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt since she had been under stress during her captivity. Maybe I was too generous.

Reba

I just got home from work and haven't caught up with today's news. I thought there were only two other agents in the car, and one was dead. Who is the other companion, and what did he/she say? Do you have a link so I can read the story?

Codger

http://cbs11tv.com/localnews/topstor...065093324.html

Mar 6, 2005 8:30 am US/Central
ROME (AP) The freed Italian hostage wounded by American troops at a checkpoint in Baghdad shortly after her release said in an article Sunday that her Iraqi captors had warned her U.S. forces "might intervene."

Giuliana Sgrena, who writes for the communist newspaper Il Manifesto, described how she was wounded and Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari was killed as she was celebrating her freedom on the way to the airport. The shooting Friday has fueled anti-American sentiment in a country where people are deeply opposed to U.S. policy in Iraq.

"I remember only fire," she said in her article. "At that point a rain of fire and bullets came at us, forever silencing the happy voices from a few minutes earlier."


The article does not quote any other witnesses.

Reba

Do you mean the battle of July 1780? The British defeated the Americans at that battle. I am sorry but I don't know what you are referring to. Do you have a link that I can read? I checked all the links that I have for the Camden battle, and I couldn't find anything about a terrorist attack by the militia. Everything I read was about the British trouncing the Americans.

Codger

http://www.multied.com/revolt/Camden.html

In July 1780, Horatio Gates was at Camden, commanding a force of 1,400 Continentals. He was soon joined by patriot troops from Virginia and North Carolina. General Cornwalis was also in Camden, with an army of 3,000. Gates and Corwalis soon found themselves facing each other across a field. The two sides advanced on each other, with the British regulars opposite the Carolina militia men. After a few minutes, the Carolina line gave way. This led to a general crumbling of the American lines, and the American army was soon in complete retreat.

Maybe he meant Bufords Massecre in May of 1780

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/ChuckPage/samuel7.html

Buford's Massacre/Battle of the Waxhaws

"We marched a few days, headin' home after the British had attacked us at Monck's Corner and captured all our supplies. There was a small bunch of us men, a small group of calvary with just a few horse. My horse was captured at Monck's Creek - the second horse I lost during the war.

"After a few days we run into a group of soldiers that was come up from Charleston which we learned had just fell to the British a few days before. This bunch was led by Colonel Abraham Buford and was about 350 strong with a couple of cannon.

"Colonel Buford told us that we was to join his militia group and that we was to march back to North Carolina to defend our state from the British advancin' behind us. He told us that they had learned that the British general Cornwalis was close on our tail, with the intent to capture or kill us all. So of course, we was all eager to get home and away from that terrible possibility.

"We had marched a road just parallel the Santee River and then later along the Wateree which will lead us to North Carolina. I was drivin' a wagon, being one of the most experienced drivers, that was left from the battle at Monck's Creek which was loaded with supplies.

"Just a couple of days after we met up with Colonel Buford a redcoat caught up to our rear and told us that Cornwalis was upon our rear with just a few hours to catch up to us and that we was to surrender our face a batallion of some one thousand men. Colonel Buford called all us officers together to discuss the matter, and figurin' Cornwalis to be lyin' about the size of his band, ordered the wagons to continue on the march. I was placed in charge of a group of men and instructed to ride with the wind for home! 'Course I was happy about these orders!

"Well we rode on fast as we could and in the distance we could hear the musket fire and terrible booms of cannon. We didn't learn until the next day what had happened - the British attacked our men full force and after our lines had fired they rushed and massacred our men even after they had raised a white flag of surrender. There again the British was massacrin' our men with no care for their lives or their own honor."

Beowulf

Dang. It was my understanding that the militia were so pissed at the Turncoats they attacked to make their point.
You ask for "specifics."
You cannot provide such to support YOUR viewpoints, so it is tit-for-tat.
It is pretty obvious that you support the , ummm. ""war" and I suppose we will just have to just love you in spite of it.

Reba

You understood wrong. I don't mind if you have a different perspective on history but please don't make up events to support your theories. Let's stick to things that actually happened.

Are you referring to the American Revolution events? I sure can support my statements. What do you want to know?


If that's the way you see it....

Reba

Someone can sympathize with a cause and their captors, and fear for her life at the same time. Yes, that is possible.

Codger

http://www.mistersf.com/notorious/notpattyindex.htm

And http://www.free-definition.com/Patricia-Hearst.html

She was kidnapped February 4, 1974 from her Berkeley, California apartment by a tiny leftist group called the Symbionese Liberation Army. Extortionate demands from the SLA resulted in the donation by the Hearst family of $6 million worth of food to the poor of the Bay Area, but there was no word from Miss Hearst.

Shortly thereafter, however, on April 15, 1974, she was photographed wielding an assault rifle while robbing the Sunset branch of the Hibernia bank. Later communications from her revealed that she had changed her name to Tania and was committed to the goals of the SLA. A warrant was issued for her arrest and in September 1975, she was arrested in an apartment with other SLA members. In the meantime, another SLA lodging was the site of a massive armed confrontation with 500 police, the resulting fire killing most of the rest of the group.

In her trial, which started on March 20, 1976, Hearst claimed she had been locked blindfolded in a closet and physically and sexually abused, which caused her to join the SLA, an extreme case of the "Stockholm syndrome", in which captives become sympathetic with their captors. Hearst further argued she was coerced or intimidated into her part in the bank robbery.

The defense did not succeed and she was convicted of bank robbery. Her sentence was commuted after 22 months by President Jimmy Carter. Hearst was released from prison on February 1, 1979. Later she was pardoned by President Bill Clinton in January, 2001, during the final weeks of his presidency.

Reba

Oh, yes, I remember "Tania" and the SLA.

Codger

I think maybe the term "Stockholm Syndrome" befuddles some here. Perhaps an explanation is in order for those who have not yet completed "Abnormal Psychology 102".

Stockholm Syndrome

"They weren't bad people. They let me eat, they let me sleep, they gave me my life" - A hostage from Flight 847

One way of describing this site would be "strange beliefs people have and how they got them." A curious footnote that doesn't seem to fit in nicely on any of the other pages is a phenomenon known as the Stockholm Syndrome.

In the summer of 1973, four hostages were taken in a botched bank robbery at Kreditbanken in Stockholm, Sweden. At the end of their captivity, six days later, they actively resisted rescue. They refused to testify against their captors, raised money for their legal defense, and according to some reports one of the hostages eventually became engaged to one of her jailed captors.

This struck some folks as weird, and as a way of coping with this uneasiness, as they started seeing more examples they named this class of strange behavior the "Stockholm Syndrome."

Notorious in the United States is the case of Patty Hearst, who after being kidnapped and tortured by the Symbionese Liberation Army, took up arms and joined their cause, taking on the nom de guerre of "Tania" and helping the SLA rob banks.

The Stockholm Syndrome comes into play when a captive cannot escape and is isolated and threatened with death, but is shown token acts of kindness by the captor. It typically takes about three or four days for the psychological shift to take hold.

A strategy of trying to keep your captor happy in order to stay alive becomes an obsessive identification with the likes and dislikes of the captor which has the result of warping your own psyche in such a way that you come to sympathize with your tormenter!

The syndrome explains what happens in hostage-taking situations, but can also be used to understand the behavior of battered spouses, members of religious cults, Holocaust victims, household pets, and perhaps even users of Internet Explorer. I think it may also help explain the popularity of government and of the mass institutionalization of young people.

http://www.sniggle.net/stock.php

Beowulf

And John Wayne.

Well, he said if a few things, etc etc.
Figure it out.
He is our hero and we are idiots, huh, we are idiots,
TTTo those who pray for war---HI
e are WORSE idiiots now and I am sure he is turning in his grave.

Beowulf

Post needs a lot of correctioms but who will do it?

Codger

Beo, I would trust no one to edit your post but yourself. Somewhere in there is a valid well thought out point. My apologies that I cannot decipher it. Try again my man. I really want to hear what you are trying to say.