Beowulf

I am going to catch a lot of flak over this, but that is fine with me. I have long maintained that we cannot trust the Pentagon reports concerning the number of our soldiers killed/wounded in Iraq. I ran across this article and I am in TOTAL agreement with it. It places the number of killed around 6,000 and wounded at 48,000.
When you think about it, doesn't it seem odd that the majority of our soldiers are killed by roadside bombs, if you are to believe the media? Yeah, right, our soldiers are spread throughout all of Iraq but ONLY those on roads are killed or wounded. Uh huh. Sure.

http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2703

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ravensteve1961

See if you allowed the iraqi prisoners be tortured this wouldnt happen. Look the russians never lost a lot of men who inveded nations in the 50s & 60s because the russians fired back at people who didnt want to be occupied by the soviet union. Russians dont tolerate you to fire at them. I think president bush should call arial sharon ask him if israel miliray would like to take over iraq and see how the jews handle the iraqis. Belive you me israel militay isnt as soft like the US military is. Isreal army is just like the russian army is.

Beowulf

Uh huh?

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Gemtun

Just ignore ravensten's ranting about Russian and Israeli armies, dear.

I truly believe you - we are all truly misled by media about accurate number of deaths that took place in Iraq. Bush administration does not want to admit the cold hard naked truth but we all will soon find out truth now that Bush has entered his 2nd term and all truth will come out because he cannot get reelected again anyway for his third term. He cannot pay anyone off for their silence now that he will be gone after this term.

ravensteve1961

I voted for bush! Because liberals dont remember 9-11 to well. Liberals would turn the other cheek. Liberals dont belive just because somebody attacked us we shouldnt fight back. Remember the 60s?


This is the society that ruined america

Steel X

you are really a dork, you know that?

because I happen to be a liberal too and I totally respect my country and for you info, I didn't turn my back on the 9-11th attacks and even for the vitcims.

You are always saying stupid things that aren't totally true and of course, I just really wonder if you are actually in the 40s because most 40 year olds would actually understand the rules of AD and to respect their background, culture, personality, etc....you name it, but insulting about liberals has actually just pissed me off as you act like you know everything and that you think you are the only person who would actually care about things but no...you actually just want attention and make people think you are cool and shit...

sadly, you haven't really made any good friends at AD lately, have you? have you even figured out why you were banned several times?

I'm not going to put up with this again, but I just want to let you know what you said has really pissed me off and and would very much like to kick your so-called 40 year old ass into the bombing of Iraq and see how you like it!

(sorry, folks...just had to let this off my chest for sometime, you can delete my post if needed, but I don't want him going away thinking that he thinks everybody sucks and shit like that, etc...anyway, peace.)

Beowulf

Some people get on my last nerve. Here is one.
Phooey.
Who knows the if the moon is a balloon the poet asks. But some questions are ENTIRELY too much.
Peace

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jazzy

Other thing people did not realize this, many wounded soldiers ended up living on veteran benfeits just alike my nephew from gulf war. He still collects them to this day and costs tax payers alot money. This war is way too expensive and many of them will never be able to work so we are paying them till they dies.



Now what about children in Iraq? How many of them were killed? Did not hear much about them. Why they did not want us to know?

VamPyroX

Ah, so you like war... eh?

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ravensteve1961

No one likes war,,But when a nation is attacked you have to fight back. Look at FDR he hated war and he saw hitler causing problems in europe. FDR said before japs bombed peral harbor that this war is noone or our business we have no attention partisapating this war europe is having. We will provide weapons to european nations who need weapons to fight but we will not fight their battles for them. "FDR in 1939" Then japs bombed peral habor FDR Declared war on japan. This is the same problem during clintons era terrorist been bombing blowing up innocent people in europe,asia,middle east and other parts of the world,What did bill clinton do? Nothing ! When 9-11 came bush declared war on the islamic muslim world that means invading afgainstan,Iraq and now iran is next. The arabs should have left us alone but noooo they had to pick on a powerful nation and now theyre paying for it.

Steel X

during the vietnam war, no other country attacked us but we went to Korea just to save some "freedom" for the people or something, I dunno...but anyway, we shouldn't have gone there since it wasn't really our business, right? sure, I know there were alot of poor and suffering people there and still today, there still are! so it's kind of a similar thing with Iraq...even though Iraq didn't really attack us, but we went there to put down Saddam and bring "freedom" to the Iraqi people...but after that, what would happen? terrorism in other middle east countries would still continue and there've already been rumors that we are going to war again Iran and I'm not too surprised about that, either since Iran isn't really a free country and all, etc...you would know more if you took world history and stuff, anyway.

so, like I said I do support my country, but I don't really like where it's heading right now you know? I don't really feel that we are going after the right ones at all, so I dunno...stories about Iraq and other stuff like that are always confusing you kept wondering what is REALLY going on there, you know? so that's what I'm saying

Steel X

clinton didn't do anything to the american citizens only because they were in other countries...not ours, so I'm sorry they died but Bush didn't really do anything when a reporter got caught prisoner 3 years ago in afhagtstian and he was killed...he has a wife and baby back in america and he never even get to see them before he died...the afghans thought he was like a spy or something but he was actually a journalism so...there was nothing bush could do to save his ass, either. He's only going after the terrorism, not saving any american citizens anyway.

life sure is a mother ****er eh?

harleymn

AND KOREAN WERE CONTROLLED BY DEMCRAT presidents too.tenn times more than now also bush is trying to save now than later .you raTHER have war here pr more casualtities later.? also a question do you live in germany if so how can that be liberal ythere ?

Steel X

uh...no I never lived in germany.

what gives you that kind of idea?

I'm an born american and have lived in america for 20 years so far...

and you know that there can be more than two politcal parties in american. it just doesn't have to be demcrats or republicans, there are still a bunch more, but the democrats and repubicans are just the main political parties that the government mostly controls over.

harleymn

sorry

Steel X

um...yeah okay.

ravensteve1961

LBJ didnt have to declare war on vietnam,Vietnam didnt attack us. All vietnam was a democratic party politicans war. Why wasnt hollywood critizing LBJ? Why didnt Hollywood make jokes and anti political movies during LBJ & FDR times? Ill tell you why ,,,Plan n simple LIBERALISM! But if a republican declares war oh yeah hollywood would lash out against the president. Oh yeah where was micheal moore when clinton attacked Kosovo?? Huh?

Steel X

um...I dont think I've heard anything about clinton attacking Kosovo before in my life...is that in china?

if so, he did it as an accident and was actually supposed to bomb somewhere near the middle east...not in China but hell, Michale Moore actually liked clinton so he didn't really do any insulting against him or something like that...DUH!

Raven

I told myself I wasn't going to post, but I'm going to now.

Yes, ravensteven is correct about about America's stand on the Second World War before and after.

Some clarification needs to be made about the vietnam war:

The only reason why America got involved into that war was to fight communism at that time, involving the northern part of Vietnam against the Viet Cong (if my memory serves me right on the name). The Viet Cong (i forgot the leader's name at this moment) was fighting the south side because of the "president" placed in power by the americans at the time in order to get some influence into the government to create more of a profit in the fat cats pockets.

Of course, the strongest nation in the world got their ass kicked by a small group of determined fighters. How beautiful.


Not to mention, it's very interesting that the US government trained Osama Bin Laden to fight against the Soviet Union who were invading Afgahnistan at that time.

Also, if my memory serves me correctly, the Americans were told time and time again to remove their forces off their holy ground. Osama was very vocal about this, but they never did. Shame, shame. For this reason, I believe Osama was banished from the place.


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Quite frankly, americans do not necessary have a very good reputation for diplomacy around the world... it's interesting to hear how some american tourists go so far to wear a piece of material that'll publicly display them as Canadian. Is that shame, I see?


World problems will always exists as long someone is around to make small mistakes that will eventually snowball into the future... in this case, 9/11. Please know that i am not disrespecting the victims of 9/11.



Going off topic hereI'm Canadian...

I don't support war, but if for some reason I became drafted for a major war, I'll fight to defend my lover, not for my country, your country, or anyone's country, but for the person who matters to me the most.



back on the topic

The reason why they are trying to stop the abuses is because they do not want to have lasting problems to come back around and bite them back in the ass again. Violence begets violence... it was fortunate that the media got a hold of this information, otherwise the american military would never have released it to the public and hte men responsible would have continued the abuses or get away free.

Think about it, people... if I invaded your country and torture you in the most horrible way and then let you live or your children live, how would that turn out? You'll get older and attack my country for something one person did to you.

All that, just for revenge.

-Raven

wow, that was a long post

ravensteve1961

And who was responsibile training osama bin laden to fight against the soviets? DEMOCRATIC LIBERAL JIMMY CARTER!! So democrats are known to **** up things. Name one democrat who did things just right? Name just one!!

Toonces

They once helped Osama Bin Laden to fight against Soviet Union? I didn't know about this. I guess I'm learning something new.

Cheri

Yes I know 9/11 very well and it's funny how you said we should fight back correct? How come we didn't arrested Osama bin Laden?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RIC111B.html

And, You voted for Bush? That means those who vote for Bush decide to ingored the fact that the most wanted person got away with murder.

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Cheri

You don't make no sense, first of all, 9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq, And you know it and I know it, Second of all the war against Iraq was and still is a long war, It's not over yet, and it would not be in a long run how can we go to the next level to Iran? That not impossible. Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11; How can you say they should be paying for it?

Eh? Clinton wants to prevent a bloodly war, Likely like Bush who doesn't give a crap if it is a bloody war or not.
More information at: http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?JS...s_iv_ctrl=1021

How can you "flip-flop" on war in Vietnam when Bush does the similar in his own war in Iraq.

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webexplorer

How come that we never hear a single news about Afghanistan war? What are they doing right now - still heavy war ...worse than Iraq?

sr171soars

Iraq is still the worst place. Afghanistan in some areas is a war zone but overall it is fairly quiet. The Taliban have "staged" some sort of a comeback but they keep getting slapped down (killed).

I'm not sure if Afghanistan will every really get it's act together. They are a backward lot, very tribal, very conservative, and had been through 30 years of war with the Soviets, the Taliban and now occupation by US. They never really modernized and it is a rugged country and it is hard to make anything of it.

Overall and believe it or not, I think Iraq will sort itself out in a year or two (with us leaving the place). Why? It appears that the Sunnis are belatenly realizing that if they don't get their act together they will be the odd man out with the Kurds and Shiites. If there is anything to get the Sunnis' attention, it is a strong Shiite faction as they are serious rivals. Most of the bombings and idiots are Sunni related as they have lost control of the country. With us out of there, there will be less incentive to fight amongst themselves. We will see...

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12,000 US Dead, 25,000 Badly Wounded In Iraq - Secret Report

Note: There is excellent reason to believe that the Department of Defense is deliberately not reporting a significant number of the dead in Iraq. We have received copies of manifests from the MATS that show far more bodies shipped into Dover AFP than are reported officially.

The actual death toll is in excess of 10,000. (See the official records at the end of this piece.) Given the officially acknowledged number of over 15,000 seriously wounded (and a published total of 25,000 wounded overall,), this elevated death toll is far more realistic than the current 2,000+ now being officially published.

When our research is complete, and watertight, we will publish the results along with the sources In addition to the evident falsification of the death rolls, at least 5,500 American military personnel have deserted, most in Ireland but more have escaped to Canada and other European countries, none of whom are inclined to cooperate with vengeful American authorities.

(See TBR News of 18 February for full coverage on the mass desertions) This means that of the 158,000 U.S. military shipped to Iraq, 26,000 deserted, were killed or seriously wounded. The DoD lists currently being very quietly circulated indicate over 12,000 dead, over 25,000 seriously wounded and a large number of suicides, forced hospitalization for ongoing drug usage and sales, murder of Iraqi civilians and fellow soldiers, rapes, courts martial and so on -

The government gets away with these huge lies because they claim, falsely, that only soldiers actually killed on the ground in Iraq are reported. The dying and critically wounded are listed as en route to military hospitals outside of the country and not reported on the daily postings. Anyone who dies just as the transport takes off from the Baghdad airport is not listed and neither are those who die in the US military hospitals.

Their families are certainly notified that their son, husband, brother or lover was dead and the bodies, or what is left of them (refrigeration is very bad in Iraq what with constant power outages) are shipped home, to Dover AFB. This, we note, was the overall policy until very recently. Since it became well known that many had died at Landstuhl, in Germany, the DoD began to list a very few soldiers who had died at other non-theater locations. These numbers are only for show and are pathetically small in relationship to the actual figures.

You ought to realize that President Bush personally ordered that no pictures be taken of the coffined and flag-draped dead under any circumstances. He claims that this is to comfort the bereaved relatives but is designed to keep the huge number of arriving bodies secret. Any civilian, or military personnel, taking pictures will be jailed at once and prosecuted. Bush has never attended any kind of a memorial service for his dead soldiers and never will. He is terrified some parent might curse him in front of the press or, worse, attack him.


PEOPLE WHO WANT WAR SHOULD GO FIGHT THEMSELVES..AND NOT SEND OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN..
I WATCHED FAHRENHEIT 911..AN EYEOPENER