Police use stun gun on 6-year-old

11-12-2004, 09:25 AM

I was shocked when I read this article.....

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/12/chi....ap/index.html

Do you think the police feel they are justified in using taser gun on a little kid?? Why don't they just grab him and take the glass away from him? (That is, if the policemen wear gloves).

Liebling:-))) · 11-12-2004, 09:29 AM

Oh my God!!!!!!

Threaten with gun on 6 years old is a joking! I bet it would frighten little child.

Reba · 11-12-2004, 09:59 AM

I think those police officers need a lot more training and common sense.

It is dangerous to use a Taser on a small body. The effects are too strong.

We don't have all the facts about the situation but I think there must have been another way for full-size grownups to handle a small child. It sounds like they wanted a quick and "easy" way to stop the situation instead of using their skills to carefully solve the situation.

***VamPyroX*** · 11-12-2004, 11:15 AM

I would rather the police use a taser on the boy to stop him from injuring himself than to stand there and watch the boy cut himself all up. I'm sure the police took into consideration of the voltage.

Beowulf · 11-12-2004, 11:37 AM

I don't think you can adjust the voltage. It is a standard 50,000 volts.

***VamPyroX*** · 11-12-2004, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I think those police officers need a lot more training and common sense.

It is dangerous to use a Taser on a small body. The effects are too strong.

We don't have all the facts about the situation but I think there must have been another way for full-size grownups to handle a small child. It sounds like they wanted a quick and "easy" way to stop the situation instead of using their skills to carefully solve the situation.

Stun guns are designed to be non-lethal. They are only lethal if a person had a pacemaker.

tekkmortal · 11-12-2004, 11:57 AM

The police could use Taser that would work on kids. You know like 2,000 volts instead of 50,000. Kids are more sensitive to electricity than adults. A kid shocked by a Taser would probably end up in being unconsicious too long or worse in coma.

***VamPyroX*** · 11-12-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekkmortal

The police could use Taser that would work on kids. You know like 2,000 volts instead of 50,000. Kids are more sensitive to electricity than adults. A kid shocked by a Taser would probably end up in being unconsicious too long or worse in coma.

2,000 volts is still deadly to anyone. Electric chairs are used at voltages that range from 1,000 volts to 2,000 volts. It's a matter of how much amperage there is. Tasers are designed to send 50,000 volts at 0.003 amps or less.

TweetyBird · 11-12-2004, 02:44 PM

i cant believe that shyt!

Reba · 11-12-2004, 04:30 PM

What I mean is, the police have techniques they can use without Taser to stop a person from harming himself, especially a small child. For example, they could knock the piece of glass out of the child's hand using their nightsticks or a kick, then bear-hug the boy to control his movements. Yes, it would still hurt and maybe bruise the boy, but I think it would be less physically traumatic.

Children's physiology is much different from adult's. Children are not just small adults. Their systems are not fully developed at that age.

I am afraid that some police will begin to depend on Taser technology instead of learning less lethal techniques of disarming and subduing.

11-12-2004, 04:48 PM

I agree with Reba...I was thinking the same thing, too. Police depend too much on Taser guns when there are times when they can handle a person without needing to shock him. Especially a little kid. :/

***VamPyroX*** · 11-12-2004, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

What I mean is, the police have techniques they can use without Taser to stop a person from harming himself, especially a small child. For example, they could knock the piece of glass out of the child's hand using their nightsticks or a kick, then bear-hug the boy to control his movements. Yes, it would still hurt and maybe bruise the boy, but I think it would be less physically traumatic.

Children's physiology is much different from adult's. Children are not just small adults. Their systems are not fully developed at that age.

I am afraid that some police will begin to depend on Taser technology instead of learning less lethal techniques of disarming and subduing.

Okay, what if you're five feet away from the kid and he had a knive at his throat? Do you think you would have time to move five feet to get the knife away from him? A kid with a weapon is like an adult with a weapon... anything can happen.

Beowulf · 11-12-2004, 07:39 PM

The normal procedure in that case would be to shoot the little bastard a dozen times.
That'll teach him.
There was a case last week when a London cop visitng New York subdued a crook without the use of weapons, and man, were the NY cops pissed...That bobby simply does not understand the American way.

11-12-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

The normal procedure in that case would be to shoot the little bastard a dozen times.
That'll teach him.

Just for cutting himself? D: It sounds like the little kid needs some serious counseling, dude.

And besides, he is small and can easily be overcame without resorting to use taser guns, I believe.

backerman · 11-13-2004, 02:24 AM

Stun gun on 6 years old is silly. Too young. They should've take him by their own hands.

Reba · 11-13-2004, 04:11 PM

Another one:

Second Child Shocked by Police Taser Gun
Saturday, November 13, 2004

MIAMI — Police have acknowledged using a stun gun to immobilize a 12-year-old girl just weeks after an officer jolted a first-grader with 50,000 volts.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138488,00.html

Mommyof3 · 11-13-2004, 05:02 PM

50,000 volts on Boys physical.. GEEZ... too powerful for little body...i think they chose wrong weapon to boy but why not they ask His mother to have Permit or Have her talk to him on Phone? i think that is very wrong for police use stun gun. Why did police to learn Self-Defend in class? Why not use Self Defend to boy instead Stun Gun? It is more easy for Police behind of boy's back and grab him. It will be less hurt than worse stun gun.
Dont you agree w/ me ?
God.. i hope Mayor of Fla will have to Deal with Fla of Polices like suspend or fired from job which they chose wrong use as stun gun.
Poor 6 yrs old boy...I cant image that 6 yrs old is so small, short, and not strong like Police... What the hell did Police think??? Also principal Maria?? what the hell she let police deal with Stun gun? They have no Common sense....I hope Parents will appeal and make sue to Fla Polices for using wrongly weapon to their child.

11-13-2004, 05:43 PM

Another child getting shocked for no real good reason? *Shakes head* What are they thinking??? *____*

Beowulf · 11-13-2004, 06:09 PM

Maybe they will call in an air strike next time there is a belligerent child.

11-13-2004, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

Maybe they will call in an air strike next time there is a belligerent child.

Tsk, tsk.

Taylor · 11-13-2004, 07:08 PM

Perhaps I'm a little biased when it comes to police, I'll attempt to keep my personal feeling neutral.

First, nobody here is in the officers shoes. The only one who can make a judgement in any situation are the people are there. One problem officers face is that there is little time to make life or death decisions. Those decisions have to be made at that moment. For people reading this story, you've had time to think about the situation and scrutinize it accordingly. The officers were not afforded the many discussions taking place.

Tazering a child would seem a little extreme, but here is some points to think about. A tazer is a non-lethal means of subdoing a subject. The officers are not there to cause the child harm. Their job is to prevent him from harming himself or harming others.

The child had already cut himself repeatedly. You stand to do the child more harm by jumping on him. A grown man (or men in this case) are obviously much bigger than the child. They would risk breaking the kids arms, legs or possibly doing internal harm to the child. Would you still feel the same had the headline read 'Officers break 4 ribs of 6 year old child'.

As for just snatching the piece of glass out of the kids hand, your then talking officer safety. If the kid is set on harming himself (as he was already doing in this case), he is going to have a tight grip on that piece of glass. If the officer had ahold of the kids hand, your still presented with the problem of getting the glass from that grip, which would mean grabbing the other end of the glass. You're now presented yourself with the problem of your own safety in grabbing a bloody piece of glass from somebody with your own hand. Of course, you could take a baton and hit the kids hand, but again you are presented with the problem of causing that child permanent harm and risk breaking bones.

Using a tazer, while uncomfortable for the child, allows a non lethal means of stopping the kid from harming himself. He had already been cut several times. What if he had cut an artery. A cut to the leg or arm can be fatal and it wouldn't take long to bleed to death (even with officers on scene giving medical attention). What if the kid is holding the piece of glass to his leg or other body part....you risk even more injury and a deeper wound (again risk of cutting an artery).

While using a tazer would seem extreme, this is a very extreme situation. It is not normal for a 6 year old to be suicidal and has already injured himself. I don't know about you, but that would be classified as an extreme situation.

It is also said that one officer caught him while being tazed to prevent him from falling onto the ground. If the officers were not sincerely concerned about the childs safety, they could have just tazed him until he hit the floor until he had no clue what was going on.

To see if I was wrong, I've posted the responses from fellow officers. Here are just some of the replies:

Quote:

I don't think the officer did anything wrong. My opinion. I think it would have been worse if the officer would have tried to get the glass away and possibly broke one of the kid's bones in the process or worse yet, the officer would have received an injury. And from what I understand tasers carry the same weight as OC, and that would have been much worse for everyone in the room.

I just hope the kid gets some help. If he's doing this at 6, imagine what he's going to be like at 18.

For those of you who do not know what OC is, it would have been the use of chemicals, such as tear gas or pepper spray (both would be more harmful to the child than the tazer).

Quote:

I can't think of any reasons that 2 police officers could not disarm a 6 year old with a piece of broken glass. If they felt like this was their best option, then they need to get into another profession. There is no excuse to use a taser on a 6 year old. Period.

Quote:

I think the core issue is whether a hard strike to the child's arm is a higher or lower level of force than the tazar. I guess they could have wrestled the glass out of the child's hand causing further cuts to the child and probably the officers. If you have ever taken something from someones hand with the person resisting the taking, you know that they can get a death grip on the item, even a 6 year old. Since this wasn't a knife with a handle, pulling this out of the child's hand would most probably would have caused further injury to at least the child.

I don't claim to be an expert on the tazar. It seems to be a tool that works well in many situations. If the reports of the manufacturer are correct, the only danger to the recipient is the hooks. I guess my question is what is the lesser evil.

Quote:

I really do not have a problem with using the tazer on a 6 yo or a 66 yo. The officers asked if it was against policy and it wasn't and in their opinion it was their bst option. I think that they could have used other techniques to subdue the kid but I am not going to second guess the officers on scene.

Quote:

Times have changed a lot. When I younger, 6 yo's were not out of control. This is not a case of a 6 yo acting up. This 6 yo has a weapon and has already caused harm. This isn't something that swift wap on the ass would have corrected.

Roadrunner · 11-13-2004, 07:30 PM

Taylor, you've made quite an interesting case in point, considering it's coming from a perspective view as an officer such as yourself--
Definitely it's easier to go through the scenario and make sound judgements on the actions put on by the officers at the scene while the officers themselves only have minutes, seconds to make a vital decision that'll serve the outcome in the best way possible for all involved...an 'outsider' may jump to conclusions irrationally thinking it's totally uncalled for when using a tazer on a small child without giving in to the considerations that were presented at the time and I commend on the officers' choice/decision seeking the best options available to lessen anymore damage, harm to others and more importantly, perhaps saving the life of this young child!

***VamPyroX*** · 11-13-2004, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonces

Another child getting shocked for no real good reason? *Shakes head* What are they thinking??? *____*

It was not for "no good reason". It was either she run into the traffic and risk getting run over or shock her on the spot to make her stop running.

***VamPyroX*** · 11-13-2004, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mommyof3

50,000 volts on Boys physical.. GEEZ... too powerful for little body...i think they chose wrong weapon to boy but why not they ask His mother to have Permit or Have her talk to him on Phone? i think that is very wrong for police use stun gun. Why did police to learn Self-Defend in class? Why not use Self Defend to boy instead Stun Gun? It is more easy for Police behind of boy's back and grab him. It will be less hurt than worse stun gun.
Dont you agree w/ me ?
God.. i hope Mayor of Fla will have to Deal with Fla of Polices like suspend or fired from job which they chose wrong use as stun gun.
Poor 6 yrs old boy...I cant image that 6 yrs old is so small, short, and not strong like Police... What the hell did Police think??? Also principal Maria?? what the hell she let police deal with Stun gun? They have no Common sense....I hope Parents will appeal and make sue to Fla Polices for using wrongly weapon to their child.

50,000 volts isn't bad since they used a very low amperage for the shock. If applied correctly, you could be killed at 2,000 volts.

Secondly, the kid is running into traffic... do you think the police are going to have time to pick up the phone and call the kid's mom just to say "ma'am, your kid is running into the street and is going to get hit by the car so do I have your permission to use a taser to stop your kid from running into traffic? Oh, what is a taser? It's a device that sends a temporary shock that stops a person from whatever action he or she is doing. Never mind ma'am. Your kid just got run over by a truck. I guess I didn't call fast enough. My apologies."

Taylor · 11-13-2004, 09:33 PM

I would be the first to be critical if these officers were out of line. I try to look at things like this from the outside. One thing that is of concern is that there was time to contact a supervisor and ask. In law enforcement, that doesn't take too long (not like getting a supervisor with the phone company). The supervisor told them to use the tazer. Additionally, the officers in this case did follow thier policy. That departments policy only forbids the use of of a tazer against pregnant women. It has nothing in regards to children. I still say that it was probably justified given the child had already injured himself and was continuing to do so.

Reba · 11-14-2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor

I would be the first to be critical if these officers were out of line. I try to look at things like this from the outside. One thing that is of concern is that there was time to contact a supervisor and ask. In law enforcement, that doesn't take too long (not like getting a supervisor with the phone company). The supervisor told them to use the tazer. Additionally, the officers in this case did follow thier policy. That departments policy only forbids the use of of a tazer against pregnant women. It has nothing in regards to children. I still say that it was probably justified given the child had already injured himself and was continuing to do so.

You have made excellant points.

I think one result of this incident should be a review of the Taser policy in regards to children. It would probably be a good thing for all concerned for the Taser makers to investigate more thoroughly the short and long term effects on children of various ages and sizes, and for the police departments to incorporate that information into their policy writing. I know that the Tasers are tested on adults but for obvious reasons they cannot be tested on children, so there may be some gaps in full knowledge here.

11-14-2004, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor

I would be the first to be critical if these officers were out of line. I try to look at things like this from the outside. One thing that is of concern is that there was time to contact a supervisor and ask. In law enforcement, that doesn't take too long (not like getting a supervisor with the phone company). The supervisor told them to use the tazer. Additionally, the officers in this case did follow thier policy. That departments policy only forbids the use of of a tazer against pregnant women. It has nothing in regards to children. I still say that it was probably justified given the child had already injured himself and was continuing to do so.

*Grumbles* But I have to admit you do have good points. And yes, they should do some research on short and long term effects on children, just to make sure there won't be any serious side effects when tazer guns are used on the kids. @_@

11-12-2004, 09:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
Toonces Guest Posts: n/a	Police use stun gun on 6-year-old I was shocked when I read this article..... http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/12/chi....ap/index.html Do you think the police feel they are justified in using taser gun on a little kid?? Why don't they just grab him and take the glass away from him? (That is, if the policemen wear gloves). Last edited by Toonces; 11-12-2004 at 09:28 AM.

11-12-2004, 09:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) My 3 darling princesses Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 26,787	Oh my God!!!!!! Threaten with gun on 6 years old is a joking! I bet it would frighten little child. __________________

11-12-2004, 11:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 27,631	I would rather the police use a taser on the boy to stop him from injuring himself than to stand there and watch the boy cut himself all up. I'm sure the police took into consideration of the voltage. __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

11-12-2004, 02:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
TweetyBird ~ Fall ~ Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,406	i cant believe that shyt! __________________ CHECK MY ALBUM PICTURES!!!!

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11-12-2004, 09:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17,130	I think those police officers need a lot more training and common sense. It is dangerous to use a Taser on a small body. The effects are too strong. We don't have all the facts about the situation but I think there must have been another way for full-size grownups to handle a small child. It sounds like they wanted a quick and "easy" way to stop the situation instead of using their skills to carefully solve the situation.

11-12-2004, 11:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,251	I don't think you can adjust the voltage. It is a standard 50,000 volts.

11-12-2004, 11:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
tekkmortal Smashin' Pumpkins! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,537	The police could use Taser that would work on kids. You know like 2,000 volts instead of 50,000. Kids are more sensitive to electricity than adults. A kid shocked by a Taser would probably end up in being unconsicious too long or worse in coma.

11-12-2004, 04:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17,130	What I mean is, the police have techniques they can use without Taser to stop a person from harming himself, especially a small child. For example, they could knock the piece of glass out of the child's hand using their nightsticks or a kick, then bear-hug the boy to control his movements. Yes, it would still hurt and maybe bruise the boy, but I think it would be less physically traumatic. Children's physiology is much different from adult's. Children are not just small adults. Their systems are not fully developed at that age. I am afraid that some police will begin to depend on Taser technology instead of learning less lethal techniques of disarming and subduing.

11-12-2004, 04:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
Toonces Guest Posts: n/a	I agree with Reba...I was thinking the same thing, too. Police depend too much on Taser guns when there are times when they can handle a person without needing to shock him. Especially a little kid. :/

11-12-2004, 07:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,251	The normal procedure in that case would be to shoot the little bastard a dozen times. That'll teach him. There was a case last week when a London cop visitng New York subdued a crook without the use of weapons, and man, were the NY cops pissed...That bobby simply does not understand the American way.

11-13-2004, 02:24 AM	#15 (permalink)
backerman Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Washtington State Posts: 218	Stun gun on 6 years old is silly. Too young. They should've take him by their own hands.

11-13-2004, 04:11 PM	#16 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17,130	Another one: Second Child Shocked by Police Taser Gun Saturday, November 13, 2004 MIAMI — Police have acknowledged using a stun gun to immobilize a 12-year-old girl just weeks after an officer jolted a first-grader with 50,000 volts. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138488,00.html

11-13-2004, 05:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
Mommyof3 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Do you need to Know? Posts: 304	50,000 volts on Boys physical.. GEEZ... too powerful for little body...i think they chose wrong weapon to boy but why not they ask His mother to have Permit or Have her talk to him on Phone? i think that is very wrong for police use stun gun. Why did police to learn Self-Defend in class? Why not use Self Defend to boy instead Stun Gun? It is more easy for Police behind of boy's back and grab him. It will be less hurt than worse stun gun. Dont you agree w/ me ? God.. i hope Mayor of Fla will have to Deal with Fla of Polices like suspend or fired from job which they chose wrong use as stun gun. Poor 6 yrs old boy...I cant image that 6 yrs old is so small, short, and not strong like Police... What the hell did Police think??? Also principal Maria?? what the hell she let police deal with Stun gun? They have no Common sense....I hope Parents will appeal and make sue to Fla Polices for using wrongly weapon to their child.

11-13-2004, 05:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
Toonces Guest Posts: n/a	Another child getting shocked for no real good reason? Shakes head What are they thinking??? ____

11-13-2004, 06:09 PM	#19 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,251	Maybe they will call in an air strike next time there is a belligerent child.

11-13-2004, 07:30 PM	#22 (permalink)
Roadrunner Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,090	Taylor, you've made quite an interesting case in point, considering it's coming from a perspective view as an officer such as yourself-- Definitely it's easier to go through the scenario and make sound judgements on the actions put on by the officers at the scene while the officers themselves only have minutes, seconds to make a vital decision that'll serve the outcome in the best way possible for all involved...an 'outsider' may jump to conclusions irrationally thinking it's totally uncalled for when using a tazer on a small child without giving in to the considerations that were presented at the time and I commend on the officers' choice/decision seeking the best options available to lessen anymore damage, harm to others and more importantly, perhaps saving the life of this young child!

11-13-2004, 09:33 PM	#25 (permalink)
Taylor Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,594	I would be the first to be critical if these officers were out of line. I try to look at things like this from the outside. One thing that is of concern is that there was time to contact a supervisor and ask. In law enforcement, that doesn't take too long (not like getting a supervisor with the phone company). The supervisor told them to use the tazer. Additionally, the officers in this case did follow thier policy. That departments policy only forbids the use of of a tazer against pregnant women. It has nothing in regards to children. I still say that it was probably justified given the child had already injured himself and was continuing to do so.