Obamacare watch...Supreme Court Decision

kokonut · 06-23-2012, 11:44 AM

Decisions, Decisions: How High Court Could Rule on Health - Law Blog - WSJ

Next we expect a decision to be announced by the Supreme court on the Obamacare. There are four possible outcomes, which one will it be?

kokonut · 06-23-2012, 11:45 AM

Poll: Former Supreme Court clerks think the mandate is done for - The Washington Post

kokonut · 06-28-2012, 09:09 AM

Obamacare about to be announced today at any time.

My prediction: It will be upheld or mostly upheld.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 09:23 AM

once again.... right as usual. wondering when will you people ever get on the program.... you know - progressive and whatnot.

*shrug*

kokonut · 06-28-2012, 09:26 AM

Per the Drudge Report:

SUPREME COURT RULES:
Mandate survives as a tax...
Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court...
The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated...
'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. '

The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate.

**Reba** · 06-28-2012, 09:33 AM

Oh, goody. I get to pay more taxes.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Oh, goody. I get to pay more taxes.

you can simply refuse to pay for it. and beside... you're most likely exempted from it and will be covered by it.

kokonut · 06-28-2012, 09:38 AM

Looks like Drudge Report made an error, here's another copy and paste from the DR again:

SUPREME COURT RULES:
Mandate survives as a tax...
Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court...
The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated...
'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. '

The court reinforces that individuals cant simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate...

FLASHBACK: Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax...

kokonut · 06-28-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Oh, goody. I get to pay more taxes.

Yeah. Congrats.

kokonut · 06-28-2012, 09:54 AM

Next prediction: More businesses will close as a result of this ruling simply because they cannot afford it.

Other prediction: If you thought high gas prices was a problem, you ain't seen nothing yet. Everything you buy will just get more expensive.

**Foxrac** · 06-28-2012, 09:55 AM

Supreme Court upholds health care law - This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Supreme Court Health Care Decision: Individual Mandate Survives

That's great news for me.

**Foxrac** · 06-28-2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Oh, goody. I get to pay more taxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you can simply refuse to pay for it. and beside... you're most likely exempted from it and will be covered by it.

Yup, that's correct.

Reba, if you are covered by Tricare so it does meet requirement so you will not face tax penalties.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 09:58 AM

What the health care ruling means to you - CNN.com

Quote:

The uninsured
The decision leaves in place the so-called individual mandate -- the requirement on Americans to have or buy health insurance beginning in 2014 or face a penalty -- although many are exempt from that provision.

In 2014, the penalty will be $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. By 2016, it goes up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income.

Health care exchanges, which are designed to offer cheaper health care plans, remain in place as well.

Quote:

The insured
Because the requirement remains for people to have or buy insurance, the revenue stream designed to help pay for the law remains in place. So insured Americans may be avoiding a spike in premiums that could have resulted if the high court had tossed out the individual mandate but left other requirements on insurers in place.

Quote:

All taxpayers
No matter what the Supreme Court had decided, it would have been a mixed bag for all Americans when it comes to federal spending. There is heated dispute over what impact the health care law will have on the country over the long term.

The federal government is set to spend more than $1 trillion over the next decade to subsidize coverage and expand eligibility for Medicaid. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that the law could reduce deficits modestly in the first 10 years and then much more significantly in the second decade.

The CBO said a repeal of the mandate could reduce deficits by $282 billion over 10 years, because the government would be subsidizing insurance for fewer people. But the nation faces costs in various ways for having people who are uninsured. The Urban Institute's Health Policy Center estimated that without a mandate, 40 million Americans would remain uninsured.

Meanwhile, the Flexible Spending Accounts that millions of Americans use to save money tax-free for medical expenses will be sliced under the law. FSAs often allow people to put aside up to $5,000 pre-tax; as of 2013, they were to face an annual limit of $2,500.

Quote:

Small business owners
The rules and benefits small business owners face as a result of the health care law remain in place.

As CNN has chronicled, the law brought a mix of both. The director of the National Federation of Independent Business is one of the plaintiffs who pushed the court to strike down the law. Meanwhile, a group called Small Business Majority fought to protect the law, saying its loss could be a nightmare.

As of 2014, under the law, small firms with more than 50 full-time employees would have to provide coverage or face expensive fines.

**Foxrac** · 06-28-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Next prediction: More businesses will close as a result of this ruling simply because they cannot afford it.

Other prediction: If you thought high gas prices was a problem, you ain't seen nothing yet. Everything you buy will just get more expensive.

That's false because it is your wishful thinking.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Next prediction: More businesses will close as a result of this ruling simply because they cannot afford it.

Other prediction: If you thought high gas prices was a problem, you ain't seen nothing yet. Everything you buy will just get more expensive.

prediction?

1. your prediction for Arizona immigration law was wrong.
2. your prediction for Obamacare was wrong.
3. your prediction for $5+ gas was wrong.

and.... to reiterate about small businesses

Quote:

As of 2014, under the law, small firms with more than 50 full-time employees would have to provide coverage or face expensive fines.

if they can afford to have more than 50 full-time employees.... surely they can afford health coverage. to not provide one for their employees is pure greed and selfishness. there's no excuse to not provide one for your employees especially if your business has 50+ employees.

**Foxrac** · 06-28-2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

prediction?

1. your prediction for Arizona immigration law was wrong.
2. your prediction for Obamacare was wrong.
3. your prediction for $5+ gas was wrong.

and.... to reiterate about small businesses

if they can afford to have more than 50 full-time employees.... surely they can afford health coverage. to not provide one for their employees is pure greed and selfishness. there's no excuse to not provide one for your employees especially if your business has 50+ employees.

Of course, he seems be very sad for being wrong.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Looks like Drudge Report made an error, here's another copy and paste from the DR again:

SUPREME COURT RULES:
Mandate survives as a tax...
Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court...
The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated...
'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. '

The court reinforces that individuals cant simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate...

FLASHBACK: Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax...

oh my... DR is making you very confused.... I think DR is confusing itself as well

here's an accurate version of Chief Justice Roberts

Quote:

"The Federal Government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance. Section 5000A would therefore be unconstitutional if read as a command. The Federal Government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance. Section 5000A is therefore constitutional, because it can reasonably be read as a tax," Roberts said in his opinion

jazzy · 06-28-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

prediction?

1. your prediction for Arizona immigration law was wrong.
2. your prediction for Obamacare was wrong.
3. your prediction for $5+ gas was wrong.

and.... to reiterate about small businesses

if they can afford to have more than 50 full-time employees.... surely they can afford health coverage. to not provide one for their employees is pure greed and selfishness. there's no excuse to not provide one for your employees especially if your business has 50+ employees.

What about those businesses with less than 50 employees? Have you run your own business before? I predict more companies goes out of businesses. we are still in slump.

jazzy · 06-28-2012, 10:10 AM

please explain little bit more about what this court upheld? meaning people without insurance must pay against their wishes or they pay big fine? still?

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

What about those businesses with less than 50 employees?

exempted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

Have you run your own business before?

no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

I predict more companies goes out of businesses. we are still in slump.

it's certainly not because of Obamacare since it doesn't even take effect until 2014. if more businesses are going out of business before Obamacare even take effect, it's because of fat cats, not Obamacare.

**TXgolfer** · 06-28-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

please explain little bit more about what this court upheld? meaning people without insurance must pay against their wishes or they pay big fine? still?

Yep, But as I and most others argued, The court ruled that it is a Tax....Something that Obama denied. Since the rich have insurance and the poor are covered it is essentially a tax on the middle class.

I am thinking Roberts may be a genius....we will have to wait and see.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

please explain little bit more about what this court upheld?

mainly - individual mandate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

meaning people without insurance must pay against their wishes or they pay big fine? still?

you are free to not get health insurance. the government cannot compel you to get one but if you don't get one, you can get taxed, not penalty fees or fines. however, this shouldn't be of a concern to you due to exemptions.

**TXgolfer** · 06-28-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

exempted.

no.

it's certainly not because of Obamacare since it doesn't even take effect until 2014. if more businesses are going out of business before Obamacare even take effect, it's because of fat cats, not Obamacare.

Or people preparing for/protesting against obamacare.

**Foxrac** · 06-28-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

please explain little bit more about what this court upheld? meaning people without insurance must pay against their wishes or they pay big fine? still?

If you have Medicare or Medicaid or Tricare or private insurance from work or private insurance from exchange so you will not face tax penalty.

If you can't afford to buy insurance so government will help you.

Not having health insurance is serious liable to medical care cost.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Yep, But as I and most others argued, The court ruled that it is a Tax....Something that Obama denied. Since the rich have insurance and the poor are covered it is essentially a tax on the middle class.

I am thinking Roberts may be a genius....we will have to wait and see.

correction - the whole point of this Obamacare is to provide coverage for middle class since majority of middle classes are uninsured.

**Foxrac** · 06-28-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Or people preparing for/protesting against obamacare.

What are you talking about? You are making no sense.

**TXgolfer** · 06-28-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

correction - the whole point of this Obamacare is to provide coverage for middle class since majority of middle classes are uninsured.

Provide?

I thought it was about reducing costs for the middle class through exchanges. Interesting.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Or people preparing for/protesting against obamacare.

then that would be a very misguided effort.

there are plenty worse thing than Obamacare that adversely affect small businesses such as tax cuts/tax exemptions/tax loopholes for corporations and riches.

In case you didn't know, Obama has already passed benefit package for small businesses last year or so.

**TXgolfer** · 06-28-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

then that would be a very misguided effort.

there are plenty worse thing than Obamacare that adversely affect small businesses such as tax cuts/tax exemptions/tax loopholes for corporations and riches.

In case you didn't know, Obama has already passed benefit package for small businesses last year or so.

And how was that received.

kokonut · 06-28-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Provide?

I thought it was about reducing costs for the middle class through exchanges. Interesting.

If it moves, tax it.

06-23-2012, 11:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Obamacare watch...Supreme Court Decision Decisions, Decisions: How High Court Could Rule on Health - Law Blog - WSJ Next we expect a decision to be announced by the Supreme court on the Obamacare. There are four possible outcomes, which one will it be? __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-23-2012, 11:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Poll: Former Supreme Court clerks think the mandate is done for - The Washington Post __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-28-2012, 09:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Obamacare about to be announced today at any time. My prediction: It will be upheld or mostly upheld. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-28-2012, 09:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,540	once again.... right as usual. wondering when will you people ever get on the program.... you know - progressive and whatnot. shrug __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

06-28-2012, 09:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Per the Drudge Report: SUPREME COURT RULES: Mandate survives as a tax... Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court... The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated... 'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. ' The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

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06-28-2012, 09:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,180	Oh, goody. I get to pay more taxes. __________________ Tell us the truth about Benghazi!

06-28-2012, 09:38 AM	#8 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Looks like Drudge Report made an error, here's another copy and paste from the DR again: SUPREME COURT RULES: Mandate survives as a tax... Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court... The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated... 'Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it. ' The court reinforces that individuals cant simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate... FLASHBACK: Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax... __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-28-2012, 09:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Next prediction: More businesses will close as a result of this ruling simply because they cannot afford it. Other prediction: If you thought high gas prices was a problem, you ain't seen nothing yet. Everything you buy will just get more expensive. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-28-2012, 09:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,590	Supreme Court upholds health care law - This Just In - CNN.com Blogs Supreme Court Health Care Decision: Individual Mandate Survives That's great news for me. __________________ In Moto We Trust

06-28-2012, 10:10 AM	#19 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: High desert in Calif Posts: 4,208	please explain little bit more about what this court upheld? meaning people without insurance must pay against their wishes or they pay big fine? still? __________________

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