House panel finds Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt - Page 2

**Jiro** · 06-21-2012, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

There ya go

then I suppose you were mistaken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

The facts ARE out. There have been several hearings.

**TXgolfer** · 06-21-2012, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

then I suppose you were mistaken.

Nope, plenty of facts still...feel free to research them if you like....

**Jiro** · 06-21-2012, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Nope, plenty of facts still...feel free to research them if you like....

so.... you're not going to wait for them to investigate in order to get all the facts to come out?

**TXgolfer** · 06-21-2012, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

so.... you're not going to wait for them to investigate in order to get all facts to come out?

The investigation has been done, the hearings have been held and the facts are out. If you choose not to accept them that is your choice,

**Jiro** · 06-21-2012, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

The investigation has been done, the hearings have been held and the facts are out. If you choose not to accept them that is your choice,

what are the facts then?

**TXgolfer** · 06-21-2012, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

what are the facts then?

Feel free to research that yourself.

**Jiro** · 06-21-2012, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Feel free to research that yourself.

Why don't you want to share so I can agree with you?

**Reba** · 06-21-2012, 07:21 AM

One fact that has come out that no one seems to notice is that they've already been caught in lies about Fast and Furious, and even admitted it. But it's overlooked.

(See post #16.)

Barbaro · 06-21-2012, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Maybe they're trying to cover their own asses, too, by throwing Holder under the bus. Who knows if they have connection with the Mexican govt and they knew about this. Maybe not and the WH is attempting to prevent angering or embarrassing the Mexican govt. Dunno. Need to see those papers first.

Mexico's General Attorney Morales mentioned that she learned about the operation from the news media. She also believes that Obama may be involved, but demands the answers. Last year, she asked the US government to extradite suspects of providing guns to drug cartels.

kokonut · 06-21-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbaro

Mexico's General Attorney Morales mentioned that she learned about the operation from the news media. She also believes that Obama may be involved, but demands the answers. Last year, she asked the US government to extradite suspects of providing guns to drug cartels.

Holder said the same thing early on in the F&F investigation. On May 3, 2011 at the House Judiciary Committee:

Quote:

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) used asked Holder when first knew about the controversial Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) operation known as "Fast and Furious." Though documents indicate Fast and Furious was started in 2009, Holder told Congress he only learned of it a "few weeks" ago.

Attorney General Eric Holder grilled by Congress on ATF "Gunwalker" controversy - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

But I agree that it is more likely that the Mexican govt never knew about this until the news broke out.

kokonut · 06-21-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Feel free to research that yourself.

Pretty easy to find them. Took only seconds.

**Jiro** · 06-21-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Pretty easy to find them. Took only seconds.

Please do share with us in here as some of us do not have a luxury of time that you have.

**TXgolfer** · 06-21-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Why don't you want to share so I can agree with you?

Because whether or not you agree with me is not a big deal to me.

**Jiro** · 06-21-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Because whether or not you agree with me is not a big deal to me.

how unfortunate. I guess I can simply surmise that double standard and hypocrisy are strong in here.

**TXgolfer** · 06-21-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

how unfortunate. I guess I can simply surmise that double standard and hypocrisy are strong in here.

kokonut · 06-21-2012, 11:04 AM

Indeed.

Barbaro · 06-21-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Holder said the same thing early on in the F&F investigation. On May 3, 2011 at the House Judiciary Committee:

Attorney General Eric Holder grilled by Congress on ATF "Gunwalker" controversy - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

But I agree that it is more likely that the Mexican govt never knew about this until the news broke out.

I suspect Mexican officials may know about it for a while. The problem is that Mexican General Attorney Morales started her job last year just after it broke out. I believe Napolitano knew about it, too in 2009. I mean, Holder even mentioned "Project Gunrunner" in his speech while he was in Cuernavaca, Mexico.

Barbaro · 06-21-2012, 04:18 PM

Here's his speech in Cuernavaca, Mexico.

Welcome to the United States Department of Justice

Quote:

Attorney General Eric Holder at the Mexico/United States Arms Trafficking Conference
CUERNAVACA, MEXICO ~ Thursday, April 2, 2009

Remarks as prepared for delivery.

First, let me express my thanks to Attorney General Medina Mora and Secretary of Government Gomez Mont for making this conference possible.

This is my first trip to another country as Attorney General. I wanted to come to Mexico to deliver a single message: We stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you in this fight against the narcotics cartels. The United States shares responsibility for this problem and we will take responsibility by joining our Mexican counterparts in every step of this fight.

And, together, we will win – thanks in large part to the courage of my Mexican colleagues here today, who are on the front lines every day, and with whom I am proud to collaborate.

The topic that has been addressed over the past two days could not be more important – the development of an arms trafficking prosecution and enforcement strategy on both sides of the border.

I would like to thank the Mexican and U.S. experts who have worked so hard on this issue. On our side, Secretary Napolitano and I are committed to putting the resources in place to increase our attack on arms trafficking into Mexico.

Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.

But as today’s conference has emphasized, the problem of arms trafficking will not be stopped at the border alone. Rather, as our experts emphasized, this is a problem that must be met as part of a comprehensive attack against the cartels – an attack in depth, on both sides of the border, that focuses on the leadership and assets of the cartel. This is the type of full-bore, prosecution-driven approach that the U.S. Department of Justice took to dismantle La Cosa Nostra – once the most powerful organized crime group operating in the United States.
With partners like those we have here today, I am confident that together, we will defeat these narcotics cartels in exactly the same way. I am proud to stand with you, and to join you in this fight. Thank you again for inviting me here.

Barbaro · 06-21-2012, 05:03 PM

Obama signed The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 ( aka the Stimulus or the Recovery Act) that funded Operation Gunrunner.

Quote:

For an additional amount for ‘State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance’, $40,000,000, for competitive grants to provide assistance and equipment to local law enforcement along the Southern border and in High-Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas to combat criminal narcotics activity stemming from the Southern border, of which $10,000,000 shall be transferred to ‘Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Salaries and Expenses’ for the ATF Project Gunrunner.

It is under Office of Justice Programs state and local law enforcement assistance.

Text of H.R.1 as Enrolled Bill: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

Quote:

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Recovery Act) was signed into law by President Obama on February 17th, 2009. It is an unprecedented effort to jumpstart our economy, create or save millions of jobs, and put a down payment on addressing long-neglected challenges so our country can thrive in the 21st century. The Act is an extraordinary response to a crisis unlike any since the Great Depression, and includes measures to modernize our nation's infrastructure, enhance energy independence, expand educational opportunities, preserve and improve affordable health care, provide tax relief, and protect those in greatest need.

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 provides $2.7 billion to the Office of Justice Programs; $1 billion to the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program; $225 million to the Office on Violence Against Women; and $10 million to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive

USDOJ: The Recovery Act Homepage
You can scroll down to the bottom of the The Recovery Act Homepage window where it says :
"The Southwest Border Initiative, ATF’s Project Gunrunner $10 million will go toward the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Project Gunrunner for the Southwest Border Initiative." You can click that.

Quote:

$10 million will go toward the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Project Gunrunner for the Southwest Border Initiative. The Administration’s Southwest Border Initiative will reduce cross border drug and weapons trafficking, and the associated high level of violence occurring on the border between the U.S. and Mexico. The primary role of ATF’s Project Gunrunner in support of this initiative is to stem the illegal trafficking of firearms across the border and to reduce the firearms violence occurring on both sides of the border.

USDOJ: The Recovery Act: Justice Recovery Act Programs

There has been another new lawsuit against US government, including AG Holder.
Family of ICE Agent Jaime Zapata Slain in Mexico Files Claim

The guns are still out there, and we have no idea where they are now. Who will be next victim of the Gunrunner project?

kokonut · 06-21-2012, 05:07 PM

Sad. Doesn't look good for Holder and Obama. Not...good....

**TXgolfer** · 06-21-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbaro

Obama signed The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 ( aka the Stimulus or the Recovery Act) that funded Operation Gunrunner.

It is under Office of Justice Programs state and local law enforcement assistance.

Text of H.R.1 as Enrolled Bill: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

USDOJ: The Recovery Act Homepage
You can scroll down to the bottom of the The Recovery Act Homepage window where it says :
"The Southwest Border Initiative, ATF’s Project Gunrunner $10 million will go toward the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Project Gunrunner for the Southwest Border Initiative." You can click that.

USDOJ: The Recovery Act: Justice Recovery Act Programs

There has been another new lawsuit against US government, including AG Holder.
Family of ICE Agent Jaime Zapata Slain in Mexico Files Claim

The guns are still out there, and we have no idea where they are now. Who will be next victim of the Gunrunner project?

Just disgusting...

**Foxrac** · 06-24-2012, 04:21 PM

Update: Darrell Issa Contradicts John Boehner On Fast And Furious, Admits No Knowledge Of Obama Involvement (VIDEO)

**Jiro** · 06-25-2012, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Sad. Doesn't look good for Holder and Obama. Not...good....

and Republicans...

**Foxrac** · 06-25-2012, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

and Republicans...

and teabaggers.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 09:53 AM

a very very lengthy article.

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features
[quote]A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

Quote:

How Fast and Furious reached the headlines is a strange and unsettling saga, one that reveals a lot about politics and media today. It's a story that starts with a grudge, specifically Dodson's anger at Voth. After the terrible murder of agent Terry, Dodson made complaints that were then amplified, first by right-wing bloggers, then by CBS. Rep. Issa and other politicians then seized those elements to score points against the Obama administration, which, for its part, has capitulated in an apparent effort to avoid a rhetorical battle over gun control in the run-up to the presidential election. (A Justice Department spokesperson denies this and asserts that the department is not drawing conclusions until the inspector general's report is submitted.)

"Republican senators are whipping up the country into a psychotic frenzy with these reports that are patently false," says Linda Wallace, a special agent with the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigation unit who was assigned to the Fast and Furious team (and recently retired from the IRS). A self-described gun-rights supporter, Wallace has not been criticized by Issa's committee.

Quote:

Irony abounds when it comes to the Fast and Furious scandal. But the ultimate irony is this: Republicans who support the National Rifle Association and its attempts to weaken gun laws are lambasting ATF agents for not seizing enough weapons—ones that, in this case, prosecutors deemed to be legal.

rolling7 · 06-28-2012, 02:25 PM

Nice try, Jiro, to take the spotlight off Holder and put it on the Rep.
This thread is not about the pass, only right now. And right now Holder is not cooperating with CONGRESS. He will be held in comtempt not by the Rep. but by CONGRESS. Still, nice try even by your evasive-style of avoiding the issue and/our trying to create confusion.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Nice try, Jiro, to take the spotlight off Holder and put it on the Rep.
This thread is not about the pass, only right now. And right now Holder is not cooperating with CONGRESS. He will be held in comtempt not by the Rep. but by CONGRESS. Still, nice try even by your evasive-style of avoiding the issue and/our trying to create confusion.

you are doing precisely what Republicans are doing. why aren't you interested in truth? did you even read the article? It's showing that Arizona is largely responsible for this mess.

rolling7 · 06-28-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

you are doing precisely what Republicans are doing. why aren't you interested in truth? did you even read the article? It's showing that Arizona is largely responsible for this mess.

Lets keep this thread about Holder, ok? Yes, I'm interested in the truth and Holder is doing everything in his power to circumvent the truth, even to the point of calling in his buddy, Obama, to help him do so. How the hell can you have a finding by CONGRESS unless all the requested information is provided. Holder is doing all he can to prevent Jiro, me and alldeaf from knowing the truth.

Of course, if you want to create independent threads on Arizona and/or the Rep. you can certainly do so. But this is about CONGRESS holding Holder in contempt.

**TXgolfer** · 06-28-2012, 03:53 PM

Criminal Contempt.

**Jiro** · 06-28-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Lets keep this thread about Holder, ok? Yes, I'm interested in the truth and Holder is doing everything in his power to circumvent the truth, even to the point of calling in his buddy, Obama, to help him do so. How the hell can you have a finding by CONGRESS unless all the requested information is provided. Holder is doing all he can to prevent Jiro, me and alldeaf from knowing the truth.

Of course, if you want to create independent threads on Arizona and/or the Rep. you can certainly do so. But this is about CONGRESS holding Holder in contempt.

My post is related to this thread that includes all angles but it appears that you only want any article finger-pointing specifically at Obama and Holder.

I see.

06-21-2012, 07:21 AM	#38 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,108	One fact that has come out that no one seems to notice is that they've already been caught in lies about Fast and Furious, and even admitted it. But it's overlooked. (See post #16.) airportcop likes this.

06-21-2012, 11:04 AM	#46 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Indeed. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-21-2012, 05:07 PM	#50 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Sad. Doesn't look good for Holder and Obama. Not...good.... __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-24-2012, 04:21 PM	#52 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,401	Update: Darrell Issa Contradicts John Boehner On Fast And Furious, Admits No Knowledge Of Obama Involvement (VIDEO) __________________ In Moto We Trust

06-28-2012, 03:53 PM	#59 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,560	Criminal Contempt. __________________ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21 Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

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06-28-2012, 02:25 PM	#56 (permalink)
rolling7 Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,340	Nice try, Jiro, to take the spotlight off Holder and put it on the Rep. This thread is not about the pass, only right now. And right now Holder is not cooperating with CONGRESS. He will be held in comtempt not by the Rep. but by CONGRESS. Still, nice try even by your evasive-style of avoiding the issue and/our trying to create confusion.

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