Zimmerman's Bail Revoked - Page 5

kokonut · 06-05-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

I am not talking about the case. We were talking about the donation. You said "KKK supporting a Hispanic?". Why the **** not? Because Trayvon was black. KKK hates blacks so don't you think it's possible that KKK made a donation to support GZ whose father is white?

Doesn't matter. It's a fact that GZ is a hispanic. The KKK would know that. Again, practically nil on that matter of them donating any $$$ to the GZ's defense fund

CrazyPaul · 06-05-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

And vise-versa....there are a lot of whites who have donated to Trayvon's parents also...
Are blacks the only people the KKK "hates"?....No....

KKK is well-known for hating blacks. Maybe one member or two donated some money to GZ. Who knows?

**Foxrac** · 06-05-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

I live in So. Calif so I never heard anything about any Mexican getting killed by a hate group at all.

Anyway, it's possible that KKK made a donation to GZ, who knows? His lawyer said that he refuses to name them because of their safety. Remember Spike Lee, the troublemaker?

Oh interesting, I know about there are street gangs between blacks and latino.

kokonut · 06-05-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

KKK is well-known for hating blacks. Maybe one member or two donated some money to GZ. Who knows?

That's your opinion. KKK is a racist group. No KKK member would dare donate $$ to the GZ's defense fund. That's my opinion and we'll leave it at that.

sara1981 · 06-05-2012, 12:29 PM

Attorney: Zimmerman's bail request delayed
Attorney: Zimmerman's bail request delayed - CNN.com

kokonut · 06-05-2012, 12:35 PM

Hmm...not denied but delayed. Ok.

Steinhauer · 06-05-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

He wants Zimmerman out of jail and automatically acquit him so he can invite Zimmerman to ride the tank around highway of Georgia.

I don't think Zimmerman knows how to drive my tank. Maybe he can just be an ammo loader?

CrazyPaul · 06-05-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Oh interesting, I know about there are street gangs between blacks and latino.

Oh, of course there are street gangs fighting over their territories. I was talking about Mexicans who are not involved with a gang so I don't know any hate group who wants to kill Mexicans in So. Calif. BTW, they are good people and we get along fine.

**Foxrac** · 06-05-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

Oh, of course there are street gangs fighting over their territories. I was talking about Mexicans who are not involved with a gang so I don't know any hate group who wants to kill Mexicans in So. Calif. BTW, they are good people and we get along fine.

Yup, just like Cubans and other hispanics in Miami metro.

I don't understand why street gangs fought over territories and I feel that territories are nothing to me.

DeafTim · 06-06-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

Probably KKK.

Hannity is one of them...

who the hell wants to help GZ is beyond me...im dumbfounded!

kokonut · 06-06-2012, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafTim

Hannity is one of them...

who the hell wants to help GZ is beyond me...im dumbfounded!

Hannity is one of them (KKK)? No. Since the Republican party isn't known for it's history on starting the KKK. That was the Democrat party. Hannity doesn't belong in the Democrat party.

**Foxrac** · 06-06-2012, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Hannity is one of them (KKK)? No. Since the Republican party isn't known for it's history on starting the KKK. That was the Democrat party. Hannity doesn't belong in the Democrat party.

Your claim is false.

Neither of parties endorse the KKK but only individual politicians did.

Hannity sucks, anyway.

**Foxrac** · 06-06-2012, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafTim

Hannity is one of them...

who the hell wants to help GZ is beyond me...im dumbfounded!

lol, GOOD!

**Foxrac** · 06-06-2012, 12:38 AM

It looks like DeafTim is correct.

Is Sean Hannity A KKK member? - YouTube

Steinhauer · 06-11-2012, 05:40 PM

The unraveling begins

Of Arms and the Law: This tells me something about George Zimmerman's prosecutor

Quote:

Harvard Law Prof. Alan Dershowitz has been critical of Angela Corey's handling of the Zimmerman prosecution, and of her filing an affidavit that omitted important facts favorable to the defense.

So Ms. Corey responds.... calling the dean of the law school, ranting that she's going to sue the school, or maybe file criminal defamation charges against Dershowitz, or sue him.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...nford-shooting

Quote:

"The idea that a prosecutor would threaten to sue someone who disagrees with her for libel and slander, to sue the university for which he works, and to try to get him disbarred, is the epitome of unprofessionalism," he says.

**saywhatkid** · 06-11-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

The unraveling begins

Of Arms and the Law: This tells me something about George Zimmerman's prosecutor

George Zimmerman Dershowitz Harvard slander - Orlando Sentinel

Guilty! No trial needed! Send her to the gallows!

She is a Liberal, yes? OK carry on. Death Penalty!

BTW, nice blog you used for your evidence. Must be getting near the bottom of the barrel in your defense of this patriotic dispenser of real justice.

rockin'robin · 06-11-2012, 07:35 PM

Just my opinion, but being from Jacksonville, Corey has stepped on a lot of toes to get to where she is at....plus the charge against Zimmerman, feel it was just to quell the riots...and of course, put her into the spotlight. She's a hard cookie, no one wants to cross her....She has a lot of enemies at City Hall.

**saywhatkid** · 06-11-2012, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Just my opinion, but being from Jacksonville, Corey has stepped on a lot of toes to get to where she is at....plus the charge against Zimmerman, feel it was just to quell the riots...and of course, put her into the spotlight. She's a hard cookie, no one wants to cross her....She has a lot of enemies at City Hall.

It might have saved his life to be in jail. I think most DAs have stepped on many toes to get/do/keep their jobs. Lawyers are never a popular group, unless they win money for you.

**Jiro** · 06-11-2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Just my opinion, but being from Jacksonville, Corey has stepped on a lot of toes to get to where she is at....plus the charge against Zimmerman, feel it was just to quell the riots...and of course, put her into the spotlight. She's a hard cookie, no one wants to cross her....She has a lot of enemies at City Hall.

that's the kind of prosecutor we should have.

**Jiro** · 06-11-2012, 08:30 PM

George Zimmerman inconsistencies: Credibility may prove key in George Zimmerman case - Orlando Sentinel

Quote:

It is clear from court and public records that George Zimmerman has sometimes been less than truthful.

After shooting Trayvon Martin in late February, he told Sanford police he didn't have a criminal history. He did. Several weeks later, he told the Seminole County Sheriff's Office he had never been in a pretrial-diversion program. That's also untrue.

He contradicted himself on the witness stand in April, telling Trayvon's family during an apology that he had thought their son was close to his age. On the night of the shooting, Zimmerman, 28, described the 17-year-old to police as in his "late teens."

And now Zimmerman is back in jail because he sat silently as his wife, Shellie, testified — under oath — at his bond hearing in April that the couple were, essentially, flat broke. At the time, they had access to about $135,000, funds raised through a website he launched after he shot Trayvon.

Given that Zimmerman is the only surviving witness to the moments before the fatal shot, his credibility is important, experts say.

"Credibility is always a paramount issue in any trial," said Douglas Keene, a trial consultant and forensic psychologist based in Austin, Texas. In a self-defense case, he said, a jury must decide "whether or not someone can be trusted to have used good judgment."

If the Zimmerman case goes to trial, Keene said jurors will have to choose between competing narratives: Was George Zimmerman a vigilante profiling an unarmed teen? Or was he a concerned citizen trying to prevent crime in his community?

Quote:

Zimmerman's untrue statements

•The night he shot Trayvon Martin to death, police say Zimmerman told them his record was squeaky-clean. In fact, he had been charged in 2005 with resisting arrest without violence during an altercation with a state alcohol officer. Zimmerman wound up in a pretrial-diversion program, a scaled-down version of probation offered to nonviolent first-time offenders.

•When he was booked into the Seminole County Jail on April 11, he told the booking officer that he never had been in a pretrial-diversion program before, documents show.

•At his April 20 bond hearing, while making a surprise apology to Trayvon's family, Zimmerman said he didn't realize Trayvon was so young. In his call to police moments before the shooting, however, he described Trayvon — who was 17 — as in his "late teens."

•At that same hearing, Zimmerman sat silently and did not correct his wife, Shellie, when she, testifying under oath by telephone, said the couple had no savings. At that moment, the couple had at least $135,000 that she had transferred into her credit-union account a few days earlier from a PayPal account that Zimmerman had set up to collect donations.

like I said.... Zimmerman's credibility is at stake in here...

**Jiro** · 06-11-2012, 08:31 PM

George Zimmerman stand your ground: In Trayvon Martin shooting case, stand-your-ground hearing likely looms - Orlando Sentinel

Quote:

The nation's fixation on the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin has led many to question whether an impartial jury could be found for the trial of his killer, George Zimmerman.

But it's possible a judge, not a jury, will decide Zimmerman's fate. He says he fired in self-defense, and many expect his lawyers will eventually ask for an immunity hearing under Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law.

Often described as a "minitrial" in which the burden of proof is on the defense and the judge serves as jury, such hearings are unlike other criminal-justice proceedings.

The lawyers' roles are reversed, the burden of proof is low, and the stakes couldn't be higher.

"If the judge dismisses the case, it's game over," says Eric Schwartzreich, a Fort Lauderdale attorney who has represented multiple "stand your ground" defendants since the law was passed in 2005.

Since the Trayvon Martin shooting, the law has been the subject of renewed debate. A task force created by Gov. Rick Scott to re-examine "stand your ground" will hold its first public meeting this week.

The law allows civilians to use deadly force anywhere they're legally allowed to be, so long as they are not committing a crime and have a reasonable fear of death or serious injury.

Even if immunity from prosecution isn't granted, the hearings can have value for defense lawyers, Schwartzreich said. They can test their theories, their witnesses — and often, their client — in a courtroom.

"You get to actually see in a courtroom how a witness will testify on the witness stand," he said.

Schwartzreich asked for immunity in two recent cases that made headlines: those of Craig Sandhaus, the man charged with stabbing downtown Orlando bar bouncer Milton Torres, and Fitzroy Salesman, a Miramar city commissioner who pulled a gun during an argument at a grocery store.

Both motions were denied. The Sandhaus case has not yet been tried, and a jury acquitted Salesman of the felony he faced. Schwartzreich credits the self-defense argument he made at the trial.

The law gives defense lawyers "two bites at the apple," Schwartzreich said. "You can ask the judge for immunity, and you can argue the 'stand your ground' law with the jury."

'Trial before the trial'

When a defense lawyer files a motion for "stand your ground" immunity, a hearing is held that resembles a trial: Witnesses are called and cross-examined, evidence is introduced, lawyers make arguments and a ruling is made.

"You basically have a trial before the trial," Jacksonville attorney Kevin Cobbin said. "Some of these things can actually be very much like trials, just without the jury."

The verdict is up to the judge. And because the burden to prove "stand your ground" is on the defense, the lawyers' traditional roles are flipped, with the defense on the offensive.

At least in theory, the defense doesn't have much to prove. In a criminal trial, the state must prove the crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." In an immunity hearing, defense lawyers need only "a preponderance of the evidence" to win the case.

The "preponderance" standard — the same used in civil cases — is a much lower bar.

"It's 50.1 percent," Schwartzreich said.

Robert Buonauro, an Orlando lawyer who recently won immunity for a client in a Seminole County case, said you only have to "tip the scale a little bit in your favor."

Still, motions for immunity are often defeated. Cobbin recently asked a judge for immunity in the case of Marissa Alexander, a woman who fired what she described as a "warning shot" into a wall to deter her abusive husband during a fight. The "stand your ground" motion was denied, and she was later convicted and sentenced to 20 years in prison.

If the burden is so low, why aren't more cases tossed? Attorneys say the law is unevenly applied, and some judges prefer to let a jury decide the case.

"There are some judges that don't want to stick their foot out there and say the buck stops here," Cobbin said.

Credibility is key

Zimmerman is being held without bond in the Seminole County Jail on a second-degree-murder charge for the Feb. 26 shooting death of Trayvon in Sanford.

Zimmerman's lawyers haven't yet asked for an immunity hearing under "stand your ground," but other attorneys say it's typical to wait until closer to trial. The defense needs to see the evidence and interview witnesses.

"You've got to prepare for it like you're getting ready for trial," Buonauro said.

There are also risks to asking for immunity: The hearing gives the state a preview of the defense's trial strategy. And if a defendant testifies to something damaging, it's likely to reappear at trial.

The outcome rests on the judge, who typically has a much greater legal understanding than a typical juror. Buonauro said most self-defense cases aren't overly complex, but the judge's experience can play a factor.

"I think where the judge's perspective comes in is their experience in being able to weigh and determine credibility," Buonauro said. And the defendant's credibility, he said, is critical.

In Zimmerman's case, a "stand your ground" claim would rest in the hands of Judge Kenneth Lester, the same judge who just threw Zimmerman back in jail after determining he misled the court about his finances.

Lawyers agree it's likely that Zimmerman would testify if there's an immunity hearing. Whether the judge would believe him remains to be seen.

"If a jury is told to weigh the credibility of witnesses, then the judge should have that same duty," Cobbin said. "The judge should definitely weight the credibility of every witness that comes forward."

like I said before.... it would fall on Zimmerman's burden to prove his defense.

**TXgolfer** · 06-11-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

George Zimmerman inconsistencies: Credibility may prove key in George Zimmerman case - Orlando Sentinel

like I said.... Zimmerman's credibility is at stake in here...

Meh, we will see what happens. Items 1,3 and 4 wouldn't cause me to doubt his credibility.... I would have to look into number 2 more.

Steinhauer · 06-11-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

Guilty! No trial needed! Send her to the gallows!

She is a Liberal, yes? OK carry on. Death Penalty!

BTW, nice blog you used for your evidence. Must be getting near the bottom of the barrel in your defense of this patriotic dispenser of real justice.

Interesting view. I don't take prozac so I can't see things from your angle.

CSign · 06-11-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

For not turning in both passports. And we should just overlook the fact that he got the second when he still had the first, apparently for the purpose of being to run away after pretending to surrender his passport.

Good observation...

**Jiro** · 06-11-2012, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Meh, we will see what happens. Items 1,3 and 4 wouldn't cause me to doubt his credibility.... I would have to look into number 2 more.

the judge disagrees. and I didn't ask for your opinion.

**TXgolfer** · 06-11-2012, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

George Zimmerman stand your ground: In Trayvon Martin shooting case, stand-your-ground hearing likely looms - Orlando Sentinel

like I said before.... it would fall on Zimmerman's burden to prove his defense.

A) He currently has no burden to prove.... He can choose to assume the burden though.... Depending on his defense strategy

B) This is a ridiculous article....it's like the guy has no understanding of what he is writing. From a DEFENSE perspective the bar is lower in trial than in an immunity hearing. The PROSECUTION must prove beyond a reasonable doubt at trial but must only prove by preponderance in the immunity hearing.

**TXgolfer** · 06-11-2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

the judge disagrees. and I didn't ask for your opinion.

We don't know what the judge thinks yet.... We will have to wait and see.

**Reba** · 06-11-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

like I said before.... it would fall on Zimmerman's burden to prove his defense.

That would be unconstitutional; that's not how the American judicial system works. It's up to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

**TXgolfer** · 06-11-2012, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That would be unconstitutional; that's not how the American judicial system works. It's up to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Exactly

kokonut · 06-11-2012, 09:06 PM

Holy moly! Again? I mean, really.

06-05-2012, 12:29 PM	#125 (permalink)
sara1981 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Little Rock,Ar Posts: 7,049	Attorney: Zimmerman's bail request delayed Attorney: Zimmerman's bail request delayed - CNN.com __________________

06-05-2012, 12:35 PM	#126 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Hmm...not denied but delayed. Ok. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-11-2012, 09:06 PM	#150 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Holy moly! Again? I mean, really. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

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06-11-2012, 07:35 PM	#137 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,299	Just my opinion, but being from Jacksonville, Corey has stepped on a lot of toes to get to where she is at....plus the charge against Zimmerman, feel it was just to quell the riots...and of course, put her into the spotlight. She's a hard cookie, no one wants to cross her....She has a lot of enemies at City Hall.