ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Tra - Page 6

CrazyPaul · 05-18-2012, 10:09 AM

TM confronted GZ and beat him up so GZ shot him in self-defense. There were two witnesses who saw TM beating GZ up on the ground and heard GZ screaming "HELP". Why would the witnesses lie?

rockin'robin · 05-18-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

You...you...confronted the unknown stranger?

My sons and I stood on the patio getting a better look at him....there was no face-to-face situation. If I had of been home alone, more than likely, I would have gotten a gun in case that unknown stranger had confronted me. And yes, I would have shot him if he made any threats towards my well-being or tried to break in or trying to steal things off our patio.

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

TM confronted GZ and beat him up so GZ shot him in self-defense. There were two witnesses who saw TM beating GZ up on the ground and heard GZ screaming "HELP". Why would the witnesses lie?

No, George Zimmermna confronted Trayvon Martin in first place after followed after Trayvon Martin.

It is ultimately avoidable if George Zimmerman stays in car.

kokonut · 05-18-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

My sons and I stood on the patio getting a better look at him....there was no face-to-face situation. If I had of been home alone, more than likely, I would have gotten a gun in case that unknown stranger had confronted me. And yes, I would have shot him if he made any threats towards my well-being or tried to break in or trying to steal things off our patio.

Ah, confronted the stranger from a distance.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

... And actually as a member of the neighborhood watch he has every right to approach someone he feels is suspicious....

I would say, as a resident of the neighborhood, he has every right to approach someone he feels is suspicious. I'm not saying it's a wise thing to do but it is his right.

CrazyPaul · 05-18-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

No, George Zimmermna confronted Trayvon Martin in first place after followed after Trayvon Martin.

It is ultimately avoidable if George Zimmerman stays in car.

What GZ did was not a threat at all. If he approached TM and asked him what he was doing, that was not a threat.

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Right on, Reba....awhile back, I spotted (late evening) someone walking back and forth several times.....by the river bank in my backyard.....our Dog was barking and barking. We called Security...cut our porch light on...went outside and looked to see what clothes he was wearing, etc....He took off to the dock and when he saw Security coming, he ran the other way....We felt he was casing the neighborhood, up to no good. And evidently he was, or he would not have ran off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

My sons and I stood on the patio getting a better look at him....there was no face-to-face situation. If I had of been home alone, more than likely, I would have gotten a gun in case that unknown stranger had confronted me. And yes, I would have shot him if he made any threats towards my well-being or tried to break in or trying to steal things off our patio.

That's happened in your property so you are free to confront the suspicious since George Zimmerman isn't.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

first of all... this so-called neighborhood watch was an unofficial program. unregistered as well. it's more like a wannabe, makeshift type.

and rule #1 of official neighborhood watch program is... "If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job". you are the eye and ear for police... nothing more. you do not and should not act on it.

so let's not kid ourselves in here... this is not even a real neighborhood watch program. a member of neighborhood watch is not the same as security guard. it's strongly discouraged. security guard and police officer are both hired and trained professionals whose job is to act on any suspicious activity within a premise. a member of neighborhood watch does not have that same privilege.

so I don't know where you're getting this idea of approaching a suspicious person. that is against the cardinal rule of neighborhood watch and it's strongly discouraged by law enforcement agency.

This is a misconception that only official members of official groups can watch out for their neighbors. Any resident or even passerby who spots something dangerous or suspicious can contact the police, jot down license plate numbers, and question (not detain) someone. Especially if you see something dangerous happening like the abduction of a child or the rape of a woman are you going to wait for the police before you take action?

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

What GZ did was not a threat at all. If he approached TM and asked him what he was doing, that was not a threat.

neither is Trayon Martin.

George Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin all way that put Martin's life in fear.

Trayvon Martin lives with his father in same neighborhood as Zimmerman does.

It is none of Zimmerman's business to look at Martin and he only need is call police if he feels that Martin is suspicious.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Is it okay for you go to Atlanta city park, be armed and confront at suspicious person who sit on bench at late night?

How is a person suspicious if he's just sitting on a bench? I would just walk past him and keep going, whether I was armed or not. Of course, I probably wouldn't be walking thru a park late at night alone in the first place. Most of Charleston's city parks are closed late at night.

kokonut · 05-18-2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

This is a misconception that only official members of official groups can watch out for their neighbors. Any resident or even passerby who spots something dangerous or suspicious can contact the police, jot down license plate numbers, and question (not detain) someone. Especially if you see something dangerous happening like the abduction of a child or the rape of a woman are you going to wait for the police before you take action?

Correct. That's why there are signs like these seen in neighborhoods

kokonut · 05-18-2012, 10:44 AM

But playing the game of assumptions or what-if scenarios can go on endlessly. I'm interested in facts and I'm curious to see what other evidence will show up next released to the public.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

the fact still remains that Zimmerman pursued Trayvon. not other way around.

A proven fact? Or just your opinion?

Quote:

It makes no sense to get out of car to pursue him when he told police officer that he was scared and that Trayvon was circling around his car.

Where did Zimmerman say that he got out of his car in order to pursue Martin?

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I would say, as a resident of the neighborhood, he has every right to approach someone he feels is suspicious. I'm not saying it's a wise thing to do but it is his right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

This is a misconception that only official members of official groups can watch out for their neighbors. Any resident or even passerby who spots something dangerous or suspicious can contact the police, jot down license plate numbers, and question (not detain) someone. Especially if you see something dangerous happening like the abduction of a child or the rape of a woman are you going to wait for the police before you take action?

Our police department in our neighborhood meeting doesn't recommended any confrontation and questions to suspicious whatever they walking around our neighborhood. There are few houses in our neighborhood were burglarized and everyone is suspicious, even neighbors too if we don't know about them. We only call police and report the suspicious activities and we are not going risk our life to confront or attack on person. Doing that will result in more complicated and possibility charge with crime so that why our justice system was horrible and there are over 190% capacity in prisons.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

because Zimmerman should not have gotten out of his car and he should have let the cops deal with it....

With that, I agree.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

nobody wants to answer my question either. same question I've asked in all Zimmerman threads and not a single soul answered it.

Which question was that?

kokonut · 05-18-2012, 10:51 AM

What we need is a detailed timeline presented by the court based on police reports and witnesses accounts along with any corroborating evidence that can help tie together the timeline.

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

How is a person suspicious if he's just sitting on a bench? I would just walk past him and keep going, whether I was armed or not. Of course, I probably wouldn't be walking thru a park late at night alone in the first place. Most of Charleston's city parks are closed late at night.

I'm just want hear from Steinhauer.

Armed citizens and police officers are not same career so police officers are responsible to patrol the city and solve the crime problems. Armed citizens are for protect themselves and their family, especially in house or in car so they can't doing what police did like paroling the public street and confront at random people.

I never had any confrontation by citizens but police officers, of course and they are there to rule out the suspicious.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Right on, Reba....awhile back, I spotted (late evening) someone walking back and forth several times.....by the river bank in my backyard.....our Dog was barking and barking. We called Security...cut our porch light on...went outside and looked to see what clothes he was wearing, etc....He took off to the dock and when he saw Security coming, he ran the other way....We felt he was casing the neighborhood, up to no good. And evidently he was, or he would not have ran off.

One day, a few years ago, I was sitting at my kitchen table, at the back of my house. I was looking out my slider doors when I saw a wild-eyed young man wearing combat pants and boots (no shirt) scale my 6-ft privacy fence and approach my slider doors. For some reason I yelled, "What are you doing?" Then, I ran out my front door, to the street. I wanted to be out in the open, away from him. When I got to the street, I saw my neighbors from across the street out there, too. They told me that the man was the daughter's boy friend who had just gone berserk. The daughter was crying, and the mom said that she had called the police. I comforted the daughter, and stayed out on the street with them. The police arrived shortly, found him (in another yard, over another fence), and took him away. I later found out that someone had spiked his drink at the base bar with a drug, unknown to him. (It happened to more than one victim.) Whew!

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

I'm just want hear from Steinhauer.

Armed citizens and police officers are not same career so police officers are responsible to patrol the city and solve the crime problems. Armed citizens are for protect themselves and their family, especially in house or in car so they can't doing what police did like paroling the public street and confront at random people.

I never had any confrontation by citizens but police officers, of course and they are there to rule out the suspicious.

I understand. It's the citizen patrolling that you don't agree with.

That reminds of a time when TCS called the police about seeing something happen. The police pulled up and told TCS to hop in the front seat to help him spot and identify the suspect. They sped off. Left me standing in the dust.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

No, George Zimmermna confronted Trayvon Martin in first place after followed after Trayvon Martin.

That's the part no knows for sure. That's why we need a trial.

Quote:

It is ultimately avoidable if George Zimmerman stays in car.

Most likely.

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

With that, I agree.

Yup, it is to prevent any complication.

The SYG laws aren't apply all defense cases and my friend told me that some of cases that had SYG protection overturned so charged with crime.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Our police department in our neighborhood meeting doesn't recommended any confrontation and questions to suspicious whatever they walking around our neighborhood. There are few houses in our neighborhood were burglarized and everyone is suspicious, even neighbors too if we don't know about them. We only call police and report the suspicious activities and we are not going risk our life to confront or attack on person. Doing that will result in more complicated and possibility charge with crime so that why our justice system was horrible and there are over 190% capacity in prisons.

It depends on the circumstances. If someone's life is in danger, I wouldn't wait for the police. It might be too late.

I could never live with myself if I knew I could have helped someone and didn't, and something bad happened.

I don't say, "Someone should have done something." I say, "I should have done something."

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I understand. It's the citizen patrolling that you don't agree with.

That reminds of a time when TCS called the police about seeing something happen. The police pulled up and told TCS to hop in the front seat to help him spot and identify the suspect. They sped off. Left me standing in the dust.

In bold, yup, except for any person life is in threaten by suspicious person so citizens have try to protect someone from getting hurting or killing.

CrazyPaul · 05-18-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

Our police department in our neighborhood meeting doesn't recommended any confrontation and questions to suspicious whatever they walking around our neighborhood. There are few houses in our neighborhood were burglarized and everyone is suspicious, even neighbors too if we don't know about them. We only call police and report the suspicious activities and we are not going risk our life to confront or attack on person. Doing that will result in more complicated and possibility charge with crime so that why our justice system was horrible and there are over 190% capacity in prisons.

You know that police officers don't always respond fast so rapists, burglars, and other criminals can get away with it.

Long story short, the burglars broke in my garage while I was at work and the neighbor called police but the burglars were already GONE. The police called me at work so I left immediately and met the police. I asked them if they could catch the burglars. They said NO. All they did was writing a report. In other words, calling police is a waste of time if they can't make it in less than 5 minutes.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

You know that police officers don't always respond fast so rapists, burglars, and other criminals can get away with it.

Long story short, the burglars broke in my garage while I was at work and the neighbor called police but the burglars were already GONE. The police called me at work so I left immediately and met the police. I asked them if they could catch the burglars. They said NO. All they did was writing a report. In other words, calling police is a waste of time if they can't make it in less than 5 minutes.

Yep. Our previous house was broken into while we were gone, and things were stolen but all the police could do was write up a report. No follow up or investigation.

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

It depends on the circumstances. If someone's life is in danger, I wouldn't wait for the police. It might be too late.

I could never live with myself if I knew I could have helped someone and didn't, and something bad happened.

I don't say, "Someone should have done something." I say, "I should have done something."

Of course, it is not unusual for neighbors to save victim's life from suspicious person and some of deadly weapons may necessary.

If you shoot the offender down and save victim's life so you will grant the justifiable homicide under self defense laws like CD, SYG or others.

**Foxrac** · 05-18-2012, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

You know that police officers don't always respond fast so rapists, burglars, and other criminals can get away with it.

Long story short, the burglars broke in my garage while I was at work and the neighbor called police but the burglars were already GONE. The police called me at work so I left immediately and met the police. I asked them if they could catch the burglars. They said NO. All they did was writing a report. In other words, calling police is a waste of time if they can't make it in less than 5 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Yep. Our previous house was broken into while we were gone, and things were stolen but all the police could do was write up a report. No follow up or investigation.

Same with few of houses in our neighborhood were burglarized and gone.

That's just happens when you are gone and not every neighbors are aware of issues with neighborhood, that's just happens.

If you have home insurance that should cover most of losses and our home insurance has coverage for all losses and damage from burglary.

You could set up the house alarm in the house or put vicious dogs in backyard, also make sure all fences are secured.

**Reba** · 05-18-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrac

...If you have home insurance that should cover most of losses and our home insurance has coverage for all losses and damage from burglary.

Because of deductible, the insurance didn't cover anything. Also, some things, like my engraved sterling silver baby set I had been given by relatives when I was born, and I passed down to my daughter, were irreplaceable. They probably ended up melted down for the silver.

Quote:

You could set up the house alarm in the house or put vicious dogs in backyard, also make sure all fences are secured.

We had a fenced in back yard, and a Labrador retriever. I wouldn't want vicious dogs on my property.

kokonut · 05-18-2012, 11:45 AM

Read the official police report.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/interactiv...immerman-case/

05-18-2012, 10:44 AM	#162 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	But playing the game of assumptions or what-if scenarios can go on endlessly. I'm interested in facts and I'm curious to see what other evidence will show up next released to the public. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

05-18-2012, 10:51 AM	#167 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	What we need is a detailed timeline presented by the court based on police reports and witnesses accounts along with any corroborating evidence that can help tie together the timeline. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

05-18-2012, 11:45 AM	#180 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Read the official police report. http://www.foxnews.com/us/interactiv...immerman-case/ __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

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05-18-2012, 10:09 AM	#151 (permalink)
CrazyPaul Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 3,180	TM confronted GZ and beat him up so GZ shot him in self-defense. There were two witnesses who saw TM beating GZ up on the ground and heard GZ screaming "HELP". Why would the witnesses lie?

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