Trayvon Case Investigation - Page 22

CSign · 04-19-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I am not saying Trayvon was a bad person. I am saying he made a mistake if he chose to violently confront Zimmerman.

If that was what he did, that made him a criminal. There are a lot of criminals that are not bad people.

It appears to me that he did confront Zimmerman in a violent manner, especially since his twitter post claims he punched a school bus driver. I don't think he had any boundaries.

If he responded in a "violent way" in what he perceived to be self defense, that would make him a criminal?

**saywhatkid** · 04-19-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Please get your facts straight before trolling.

Zimmerman was detained and questioned the night of the shooting. The initial prosecutor, Wolfinger, did not find any evidence incriminating Zimmerman and let him go.

The racists, like you, were in an uproar over it because the teen happened to be black. That is the only reason this has become a national issue.

I know you must think white people are out to keep the black man down. Maybe, you think the "white devil" came in the form of a hispanic this time - and will come in the form of an asian the next round ... who knows. Perhaps ALL shooters of black teen males should be described as "white oriental" or maybe even "white african americans" but in this incident "white hispanic" really got the ball rolling didn't it?

I should report this bolded comment. That is a pretty stupid thing to direct at me. You want to get personal? Go play with your blow up doll.

I said that it has never been questioned that he shot the boy. There should be no dispute on that part. The question has always been whether or not it was self-defense. My comments directed at YOU are that you are posting reports that the boy did this or that crime i.e. skipped school, was late, smoked weed. In your eyes, those are crimes that deserve to have a character assassinated, in the very least.

Don't even get me started on where the racism is coming from, Dixie boy...

**Reba** · 04-19-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Casey Anthony. JonBenét Ramsey.

Those aren't the same. They weren't the case of one person shooting another with the same circumstances.

If the shooter and victim had both been white, or both black, or both Hispanic, would the outcry be the same? That is, if the circumstances had been exactly the same as the Zimmerman/Martin shooting, except for skin color, would the outcry be the same?

airportcop · 04-19-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I'm not so sure that open carry is a solution.

Nope! I tends to freak a lot of folks out including me!

airportcop · 04-19-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

ah! that sounds like a vigilantism!

Not hardly!

**saywhatkid** · 04-19-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Those aren't the same. They weren't the case of one person shooting another with the same circumstances.

If the shooter and victim had both been white, or both black, or both Hispanic, would the outcry be the same? That is, if the circumstances had been exactly the same as the Zimmerman/Martin shooting, except for skin color, would the outcry be the same?

Same thing; if someone is kidnapped, and it turns out they are a 21 year old attractive blonde female, we get to see it covered in depth. It is all about dollars. All these news agencies are looking at the bottom line when they fill out the script for the newscast. Nothing matter more.

airportcop · 04-19-2012, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I wonder if both of them had been white, or both of them black, or both of them Hispanic, would there have been the same outcry.

No way! Not even close! Sad!

airportcop · 04-19-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Casey Anthony. JonBenét Ramsey.

Both way different than this case. Oranges and apples!

airportcop · 04-19-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

so why was he being charged now? Wolfinger and police department must have done a very sloppy job in investigation.

Seeing how fishy this Trayvon shooting is... don't you agree that we should have a trial to get the truth?

He is being charged because of the MM's corrupt reporting tactics and the public outcry from the Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson wannabes!

**Jiro** · 04-19-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

He is being charged because of the MM's corrupt reporting tactics and the public outcry from the Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson wannabes!

ooo..... making a rash decision without hearing all facts beforehand?

Steinhauer · 04-19-2012, 10:00 PM

Alveda King | Trayvon Martin | Jesse Jackson | Al Sharpton | The Daily Caller

Quote:

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s niece is criticizing the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson for politicizing the Trayvon Martin shooting and leveraging racial tensions to rile up Americans.

Don't buy the BS. Zimmerman and Trayvon's race have absolutely nothing to do with this incident.

**Foxrac** · 04-19-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

He is being charged because of the MM's corrupt reporting tactics and the public outcry from the Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson wannabes!

Media does hardly to influence on Zimmerman's charge and it is really narrow or none at all.

airportcop · 04-19-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

ooo..... making a rash decision without hearing all facts beforehand?

I don't think so! But I will wait and see for now like everyone else.

rockin'robin · 04-20-2012, 08:37 AM

Just saw the back of Zimmerman's bloody head....

Warning Graphic Photo: Possible New Evidence Shows George Zimmerman's Bloodied Head - Yahoo!

A new photograph obtained exclusively by ABC News showing the bloodied back of George Zimmerman's head, which was taken three minutes after he shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, gives possible credence to his claim that Martin had bashed his head against the concrete as he fought for his life.
Click here to view the image. Warning: graphic content.

The revelation comes as his attorney and prosecutors prepare for Zimmerman's bail hearing today, which could result in his being released from jail. Zimmerman, 28, is being held on charges of second-degree murder for the Feb. 26 shooting of Martin, which could carry a life sentence if he is convicted.

The exclusive image shows blood trickling down the back of George Zimmerman's head from two small cuts. It also shows a possible contusion forming on the crown of his head. The original police report that night notes that the back of Zimmerman's head was wet, and that he was bleeding from the nose and head.

Zimmerman told police that night that he shot and killed the teenager in self-defense after Martin punched him and pounced on him. Zimmerman told police that Martin then bashed his head into the concrete sidewalk during the altercation that took place in the tidy middle-class development of the Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Fla.

Zimmerman was treated at the scene by paramedics, then cuffed and driven in a police cruiser to the Sanford police station. He was questioned for hours and later released. In police surveillance video obtained last month by ABC News Zimmerman's wounds are not apparent, and there were no bandages on his head.

Zimmerman was not admitted to a hospital or given stitches the night of the incident.

The photographer told ABC News exclusively that they did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The source saw Martin's prostrate body on the wet grass and claims the gunpowder burns on Martin's gray hoodie were clearly visible; the gunpowder marks could show that Martin was shot at very close range.

The photographer says that after the shooting Zimmerman asked to call his wife. When the photographer asked what to say, Zimmerman allegedly blurted out "man, just tell her I shot someone."

ABC News has learned that investigators have seen the photo.

"How bad could it have been if they didn't take him to the hospital [and] didn't stitch him up," Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump said in a statement to ABC News in response to the image. "The special prosecutor has seen all the evidence and still believes George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin."

Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara says his client has spent enough time behind bars.

"He needs to get out. He should not be in jail," O'Mara said. "I want him out because I need him out. He wants to get out. His family wants it out. It should happen."

If Zimmerman is released, his attorney tells ABC News that he has a number of potential safe houses prepared. In the meantime O'Mara says the former altar boy, who has become America's highest profile defendant, has been reading the Bible while in protective custody.

In a bail hearing in Florida, the burden of proof to deny bail, even in a second degree murder trial, is higher than necessary to seek a conviction in a trial.

"They would have to prove that the presumption of guilt is great, and that the proof is evident," said O'Mara.

In the capias -- similar to a warrant -- filed against Zimmerman last week, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey and her team set bail at "none." In order to reduce that to bail at a set monetary sum, Corey's team would have to essentially prove their case -- something experts tell ABC News is unlikely at this point in the legal process.

O'Mara said he doubts the prosecutor will reveal their case before trial, even before discovery.

CrazyPaul · 04-20-2012, 11:11 AM

Zimmerman will get out of jail after paying a bond, $150k with some restrictions.

airportcop · 04-20-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

Zimmerman will get out of jail after paying a bond, $150k with some restrictions.

And he probably should. If he wanted to run he already would have been gone and wouldn't have turned himself in. Maybe, just maybe a little truth is leaking out.

Steinhauer · 04-20-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSign

If he responded in a "violent way" in what he perceived to be self defense, that would make him a criminal?

Responding to what in a violent way?

CSign · 04-20-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I am not saying Trayvon was a bad person. I am saying he made a mistake if he chose to violently confront Zimmerman.

If that was what he did, that made him a criminal. There are a lot of criminals that are not bad people.

It appears to me that he did confront Zimmerman in a violent manner, especially since his twitter post claims he punched a school bus driver. I don't think he had any boundaries.

^bolded

I'm trying to clarify what you mean by that statement. If he was responding to Zimmerman and acting in what he believed was self defense, do you believe that made him a criminal?

**Reba** · 04-20-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSign

I'm trying to clarify what you mean by that statement. If he was responding to Zimmerman and acting in what he believed was self defense, do you believe that made him a criminal?

Did Martin attack Zimmerman only after Zimmerman got in his face and threatened him? Were they facing each other at that time? Or, did Martin attack Zimmerman from the rear as Zimmerman was walking back to his car, with no face-to-face confrontation?

We don't know.

However, I wouldn't call Martin a "criminal" for self defense action, same as I wouldn't call Zimmerman a criminal for self defense action.

The trial should reveal whether or not either or both of them were acting in self defense.

**Jiro** · 04-20-2012, 01:31 PM

from rockin' robin's link - "Prosecutors have seen all evidence and still believe Zimmerman murdered Trayvon"

**Reba** · 04-20-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

from rockin' robin's link - "Prosecutors have seen all evidence and still believe Zimmerman murdered Trayvon"

That's pretty much what all prosecutors say and believe, yet they don't always get convictions.

CSign · 04-20-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Did Martin attack Zimmerman only after Zimmerman got in his face and threatened him? Were they facing each other at that time? Or, did Martin attack Zimmerman from the rear as Zimmerman was walking back to his car, with no face-to-face confrontation?

We don't know.

However, I wouldn't call Martin a "criminal" for self defense action, same as I wouldn't call Zimmerman a criminal for self defense action.

The trial should reveal whether or not either or both of them were acting in self defense.

You are right, we don't know.

However, I heard nothing that indicated Zimmerman was retreating. Only that he continued to pursue him, even after he'd been directed not to. Why would he continue to pursue Martin and then retreat after a while? That doesn't make sense to me.

As you mentioned though, we should find out more during the trial.

**Jiro** · 04-20-2012, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSign

You are right, we don't know.

However, I heard nothing that indicated Zimmerman was retreating. Only that he continued to pursue him, even after he'd been directed not to. Why would he continue to pursue Martin and then retreat after a while? That doesn't make sense to me.

Because as he claimed - Zimmerman lost Trayvon so he went back to his car and then got attacked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSign

As you mentioned though, we should find out more during the trial.

yup.

**Jiro** · 04-20-2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That's pretty much what all prosecutors say and believe, yet they don't always get convictions.

I'm not interested in all prosecutors from all over. This specific prosecutor is serious business and has high conviction rate.

CSign · 04-20-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Because as he claimed - Zimmerman lost Trayvon so he went back to his car and then got attacked.

yup.

I hadn't read or heard that part. That claim should be fairly easy to corroborate depending on the location where Martin was killed.

**Reba** · 04-20-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSign

You are right, we don't know.

However, I heard nothing that indicated Zimmerman was retreating. Only that he continued to pursue him, even after he'd been directed not to. Why would he continue to pursue Martin and then retreat after a while? That doesn't make sense to me.

As you mentioned though, we should find out more during the trial.

I heard that Zimmerman had gotten out of his car to get the address of the building where he was in order to give more information to the dispatcher. He said he was on his way back to his car when he was attacked by Martin.

Apparently your sources and my sources aren't saying the same things.

Maybe at the trial we'll hear all versions of what happened.

**Reba** · 04-20-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I'm not interested in all prosecutors from all over. This specific prosecutor is serious business and has high conviction rate.

So do a lot of them. That doesn't mean they will get a conviction every time. This prosecutor is no different.

CSign · 04-20-2012, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I heard that Zimmerman had gotten out of his car to get the address of the building where he was in order to give more information to the dispatcher. He said he was on his way back to his car when he was attacked by Martin.

Apparently your sources and my sources aren't saying the same things.

Maybe at the trial we'll hear all versions of what happened.

I've mentioned before, I haven't read everything that's been printed so I'm a bit out of the loop. I've read and heard quite a bit, but I've certainly missed some. It should be interesting what comes out at trial. Have they set a date yet?

**Reba** · 04-20-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSign

I've mentioned before, I haven't read everything that's been printed so I'm a bit out of the loop. I've read and heard quite a bit, but I've certainly missed some. It should be interesting what comes out at trial. Have they set a date yet?

No date yet.

**Reba** · 04-20-2012, 02:35 PM

At today's hearing, Zimmerman's lawyer asked the detective if he knows who started the fight. The detective said no. He also didn't have any evidence about how long, if at all, Zimmerman "continued to follow" Martin. The detective said that in Zimmerman's statement, he said that he was looking up the address, then was headed back to his car. On his way back to the car, Martin assaulted him. That was in the initial police report when Zimmerman gave his statement.

04-20-2012, 08:37 AM	#644 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,269	Just saw the back of Zimmerman's bloody head.... Warning Graphic Photo: Possible New Evidence Shows George Zimmerman's Bloodied Head - Yahoo! A new photograph obtained exclusively by ABC News showing the bloodied back of George Zimmerman's head, which was taken three minutes after he shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, gives possible credence to his claim that Martin had bashed his head against the concrete as he fought for his life. Click here to view the image. Warning: graphic content. The revelation comes as his attorney and prosecutors prepare for Zimmerman's bail hearing today, which could result in his being released from jail. Zimmerman, 28, is being held on charges of second-degree murder for the Feb. 26 shooting of Martin, which could carry a life sentence if he is convicted. The exclusive image shows blood trickling down the back of George Zimmerman's head from two small cuts. It also shows a possible contusion forming on the crown of his head. The original police report that night notes that the back of Zimmerman's head was wet, and that he was bleeding from the nose and head. Zimmerman told police that night that he shot and killed the teenager in self-defense after Martin punched him and pounced on him. Zimmerman told police that Martin then bashed his head into the concrete sidewalk during the altercation that took place in the tidy middle-class development of the Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Fla. Zimmerman was treated at the scene by paramedics, then cuffed and driven in a police cruiser to the Sanford police station. He was questioned for hours and later released. In police surveillance video obtained last month by ABC News Zimmerman's wounds are not apparent, and there were no bandages on his head. Zimmerman was not admitted to a hospital or given stitches the night of the incident. The photographer told ABC News exclusively that they did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The source saw Martin's prostrate body on the wet grass and claims the gunpowder burns on Martin's gray hoodie were clearly visible; the gunpowder marks could show that Martin was shot at very close range. The photographer says that after the shooting Zimmerman asked to call his wife. When the photographer asked what to say, Zimmerman allegedly blurted out "man, just tell her I shot someone." ABC News has learned that investigators have seen the photo. "How bad could it have been if they didn't take him to the hospital [and] didn't stitch him up," Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump said in a statement to ABC News in response to the image. "The special prosecutor has seen all the evidence and still believes George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin." Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara says his client has spent enough time behind bars. "He needs to get out. He should not be in jail," O'Mara said. "I want him out because I need him out. He wants to get out. His family wants it out. It should happen." If Zimmerman is released, his attorney tells ABC News that he has a number of potential safe houses prepared. In the meantime O'Mara says the former altar boy, who has become America's highest profile defendant, has been reading the Bible while in protective custody. In a bail hearing in Florida, the burden of proof to deny bail, even in a second degree murder trial, is higher than necessary to seek a conviction in a trial. "They would have to prove that the presumption of guilt is great, and that the proof is evident," said O'Mara. In the capias -- similar to a warrant -- filed against Zimmerman last week, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey and her team set bail at "none." In order to reduce that to bail at a set monetary sum, Corey's team would have to essentially prove their case -- something experts tell ABC News is unlikely at this point in the legal process. O'Mara said he doubts the prosecutor will reveal their case before trial, even before discovery. Last edited by rockin'robin; 04-20-2012 at 08:40 AM. Reason: added copy

04-20-2012, 01:31 PM	#650 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,428	from rockin' robin's link - "Prosecutors have seen all evidence and still believe Zimmerman murdered Trayvon" __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

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04-20-2012, 11:11 AM	#645 (permalink)
CrazyPaul Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 2,968	Zimmerman will get out of jail after paying a bond, $150k with some restrictions.

04-20-2012, 02:35 PM	#660 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,108	At today's hearing, Zimmerman's lawyer asked the detective if he knows who started the fight. The detective said no. He also didn't have any evidence about how long, if at all, Zimmerman "continued to follow" Martin. The detective said that in Zimmerman's statement, he said that he was looking up the address, then was headed back to his car. On his way back to the car, Martin assaulted him. That was in the initial police report when Zimmerman gave his statement.