Trayvon Case Investigation - Page 2

**Jiro** · 04-10-2012, 06:40 PM

Toobin: Lawyers' 'bizarre' announcement no help to Zimmerman – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Quote:

Tuesday's announcement by two lawyers that they're no longer representing George Zimmerman was a "bizarre episode" that might prompt a special prosecutor to move up her decision on whether to arrest him, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said.

The special prosecutor is trying to determine whether to charge the Florida neighborhood watch volunteer, who claimed he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in February in self-defense.

“That was certainly one of the wackiest news conferences I have ever seen," Toobin said about Tuesday's announcement by attorneys Hal Uhrig and Craig Sonner that they have withdrawn as counsel for Zimmerman. The attorneys said that they still believe Zimmerman's self-defense claim, but that they can't represent him because Zimmerman hasn't answered their messages since Sunday.

"I think they are obviously concerned about his well-being, but they are also, I think, potentially setting him up for an earlier arrest than they might have, because one of the reasons a prosecutor doesn't arrest someone right away is that the prosecutor is assured by the counsel that, 'Look, he'll surrender. He's not going anywhere,' " Toobin said. "At this point the lawyers don't know what he's doing, don't know where he is, and the prosecutor may say, ‘Look, I’d better arrest this person or he's going to be in the wind.’

"So I think this bizarre episode might accelerate the prosecutor's timetable if, in fact, she's going to arrest him.”

Police say Zimmerman fatally shot Martin, who was African-American, on February 26 in Sanford, Florida, as Martin was walking home from a convenience store. Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, had called 911 to complain about a suspicious person in the neighborhood.

Zimmerman told Sanford police the shooting was self-defense, and Zimmerman was released without charges. Authorities have said Zimmerman was not immediately charged because there were no grounds, at the outset, to disprove his account that he'd acted to protect himself.

But thousands have converged on Sanford to join in protests calling for Zimmerman's arrest and criticizing the police department's handling of the case, and a special prosecutor in Florida is investigating the case.

Toobin said he found it troubling that Uhrig and Sonner felt obliged to withdraw from the case so publicly.

"They make their client look like a lunatic, and they could have communicated this information to the prosecutor who, after all, is the most important person here," Toobin said. "I don't think they did George Zimmerman a great service by spelling this out in such extraordinary detail when they could have simply just gone into the prosecutor and said, ‘Hey, look, we don't represent this guy anymore.’ So I think that's a troubling question of legal ethics on their part."

Toobin said attorneys are not obliged to participate with clients who are actively ignoring their advice or refusing to be in contact with them. And he noted that the attorneys had not entered a notice of appearance that officially would have made them Zimmerman's attorneys in the case.

"But the real issue, it seems to me, is where is he? Because that's going to be something that the prosecutor is very concerned about," Toobin said. "She needs to know that if she wants to proceed with an arrest, she can find the guy. And the lawyers are quite clearly making the representation that they don't know where he is."

Sonner, who said he and Uhrig would resume representing Zimmerman if Zimmerman asked, said that he is "reasonably sure" that he knows where Zimmerman is, and that he was in the United States.

Legal analyst Sunny Hostin told CNN that she agreed with Toobin that the prosecutor will be concerned about where Zimmerman is. But she said that the lawyers' revelation Tuesday that the prosecutor hasn't yet interviewed Zimmerman may mean that no decision on charges will happen in the near future.

Toobin and B.J. Bernstein, who also is a legal commenter for CNN and HLN, took to social media to express their disbelief at how the news conference was handled.

**Jiro** · 04-10-2012, 06:42 PM

Prosecutor's quandary: Zimmerman may be indicted, then acquitted - CNN.com

Quote:

Protesters in Miami call on Sen. Marco Rubio to retract his support for Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law.
Editor's note: Alan Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School.

(CNN) -- On the basis of the evidence currently in the public record, one likely outcome of the case against George Zimmerman is a mixed one: There may be sufficient evidence for a reasonable prosecutor to indict him for manslaughter, but there may also be doubt sufficient for a reasonable jury to acquit him.

Any such predictions should be accepted with an abundance of caution, however, because the evidence known to the special prosecutor, but not to the public, may paint a different picture. It may be stronger or weaker.

Media reports suggest that police found Zimmerman with grass stains on the back of his shirt, bloody bruises on the back of his head and other indicia that may support his contention that Trayvon Martin was banging his head against the ground when Zimmerman shot him.

We don't know what Martin's body or clothing show, other than the fatal bullet wound. If there are no comparable bruises or grass stains and if the bullet wound and powder residue establish that the gun was fired at very close range, this too might support a claim of self-defense.

Then there is a recorded cry for help, which, if it turns out to be the voice of Martin, would undercut the defense -- if the voice analysis passes scientific muster and is deemed admissible into evidence.

There may be additional forensic evidence -- or witnesses -- of which we are now unaware, though it is unlikely there is a "smoking gun."

Finally, there is the overarching and historically painful reality that an unarmed black teenager lies dead at the hand of an armed Hispanic man who ignored a dispatcher's advice not to follow and engage the "suspect," and who may have -- and this too is forensically unclear -- uttered a racial epithet while chasing him.

These "facts" give rise to several possible scenarios of what may actually have occurred on that dark rainy night. Under the Florida self-defense statute, it matters greatly what happened, most especially who "initially provoke[d] the use of force," and who started the physical encounter.

If Zimmerman initially provoked the deadly encounter, then he cannot invoke any "stand your ground" defense. He would then be under a legal obligation to "exhaust ... every reasonable means to escape."

Though this statute is anything but a model of clarity, it does suggest that whoever "provokes" a deadly encounter has a heavy burden of justification in claiming self-defense. But the statute doesn't define "provokes," and that ambiguous word may hold the key to the outcome of this tragic case.

If provocation is limited to a physical assault, and if Zimmerman's account that Martin blindsided him with a punch is believed, then Zimmerman did not provoke the encounter. But if provocation includes following the victim and harassing him, then Zimmerman may well qualify as a provocateur. Moreover, a jury may believe that Zimmerman started the physical confrontation by grabbing Martin. This would almost certainly constitute provocation.

But to complicate matters further, even a provocateur has the legal right to defend himself under Florida law if he can't escape and if he is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, as Zimmerman claims he was.

All this goes to show how factually driven this case is under Florida law. And we don't yet know all the facts. The special prosecutor, who has said she will not use a grand jury to decide whether to indict Zimmerman, has an obligation to consider all the evidence and to apply the law to the facts.

All she needs in order to indict is probable cause that a crime has been committed. A jury that ultimately decides whether the defendant is guilty needs much more: proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But what if a prosecutor concludes that there is both probable cause and a reasonable doubt?

That is the nightmare scenario that this prosecutor may well face. In ordinary circumstances, most prosecutors would not bring such a case, because it would be a waste of resources to indict someone who will probably be acquitted. But this is anything but a run-of-the-mill case.

Moreover, the Florida statute provides an additional layer of protection to a defendant claiming self-defense: A judge must decide whether the defendant is "immune from prosecution," that is, if the judge believes his actions fall under the law of self-defense.

So the following mixed outcome is certainly possible: The special prosecutor indicts; the judge does or doesn't grant immunity; if he doesn't, the jury acquits.

Many people would be unhappy with such a mixed outcome, but it is not the job of the law to make people happy.

rockin'robin · 04-10-2012, 06:44 PM

Publicity....and just buying more time....hoping that the black community will quieten down somewhat.

**Jiro** · 04-10-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Publicity....and just buying more time....hoping that the black community will quieten down somewhat.

this.... doesn't really help much to calm the public...

rockin'robin · 04-10-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

this.... doesn't really help much to calm the public...

Feel the more that time passes by....the less "fresh rage" there will be...right now, the riots, marches, even police car shoot-ups are happening among other things.......At my boys high school, the "talk" has died down a lot.....no problems in my community and no marches/riots downtown since last week....Really, I'm hoping it all will be resolved civilially....then again, that might just be wishful thinking.

C.C.Sinned · 04-10-2012, 07:08 PM

chaos & anarchy are more interesting!

**saywhatkid** · 04-10-2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

It doe not matter how much people weigh or how tall they are. For example, a thin person can beat a fat person or a short person can beat a tall person. How? Talent!!! In other words, a small black boy can beat me because he knows how to knock me out. Black men are great at punching people. That's a fact. No wonder why there are alot of professional black boxers.

You watch too much TV. Why not also say white people are good at embezzlement?

Frisky Feline · 04-10-2012, 07:37 PM

^^^ True. saywhatkid.

rockin'robin · 04-10-2012, 08:08 PM

SANFORD, Fla. -
State Attorney Angela Corey announced to the media Tuesday night that she will hold a press conference sometime within the next three days.

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the Trayvon Martin shooting death investigation.

The media will be notified three hours in advance of the news conference, as to when and where it will be held. It will be in either Jacksonville or Sanford.

No other information was given.

Corey to present new information | News - Home

C.C.Sinned · 04-10-2012, 08:57 PM

after that,

there is goes the neighborhood

CrazyPaul · 04-10-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

You watch too much TV. Why not also say white people are good at embezzlement?

Embezzlement doesn't cause physical harm, assault does.

**saywhatkid** · 04-10-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

Embezzlement doesn't cause physical harm, assault does.

Then we better embezzle the taxpayers, so we can build enough prisons to incarcerate the entire non-white population.

**Foxrac** · 04-10-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.C.Sinned

after that,

there is goes the neighborhood

I like this smile.

**Jiro** · 04-10-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

SANFORD, Fla. -
State Attorney Angela Corey announced to the media Tuesday night that she will hold a press conference sometime within the next three days.

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the Trayvon Martin shooting death investigation.

The media will be notified three hours in advance of the news conference, as to when and where it will be held. It will be in either Jacksonville or Sanford.

No other information was given.

Corey to present new information | News - Home

Oh boy.... More agonizing suspense for both families.

**Jiro** · 04-10-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

Embezzlement doesn't cause physical harm, assault does.

Embezzlement causes suffering and deaths (murder/suicide). Look at Madoff's son.

rockin'robin · 04-10-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Oh boy.... More agonizing suspense for both families.

True...and I feel the speech by Ms Corey will be made in Jacksonville since the Police are having problems in Sanford, Fla. (police cars being shot up), and riots/marches by the police station)...if things setle down, then she might go with Sanford, but she would have better & bigger police protection if she spoke in Jacksonville.....NO way would I want to be in her shoes.....

sara1981 · 04-11-2012, 01:35 AM

Pontiac Academy for Excellence teacher says she was fired over Trayvon Martin fundraiser
Pontiac Academy for Excellence teacher says she was fired over Trayvon Martin fundraiser | News - Home

Quote:

PONTIAC, Mich. -
It’s a story of she said, she said at the Pontiac Academy for Excellence.

Former literature teacher Brooke Harris claims she was fired from the academy for helping students organize a fundraiser for Trayvon Martin, the teen fatally shot in a Florida neighborhood earlier this year.

“I feel bad for my kids,” Harris said. "I feel bad that now not just society is underestimating them, but so is the woman who is suppose to be looking out for their education.”

But Academy Superintendent, Dr. Jaqcueline Cassell, said those allegations are completely false.

“While I cannot comment on specific personnel issues, I will say I would never fire anyone over the reason stated, it’s just not who I am," Cassell said.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, an American nonprofit civil rights organization, has called for the reinstatement of Harris’ job. When Harris was asked by her eighth-grade journalism students if she knew anything about the Martin case she decided to assign her class an editorial writing project about the subject. The students then wanted to help the Martin’s family by starting a fundraiser.

“Each student who wanted to participate would pay $1 to wear hoodies for one day instead of their mandatory uniforms,” Harris said. “The money raised would be donated to the Martin family.”

Harris had her students write letters to the school’s principal asking permission to do the fundraiser, but Harris claims the idea was ultimately rejected by Cassell.

“I went to the students and told them while freedom of expression is important, when it comes to donating money, I feel the students need to the recognize the need for fundraising here in their own community,” said Cassell.

Harris said she asked Cassell if the students could present their idea in person but was criticized for even making the request. Harris was suspended for two days. She said was told she was being paid to teach, not to be an activist.

“When you have an idea it needs to go through the ranks, it’s how to respond to the decisions that makes all the difference,” said Cassell.

Harris also claims she had briefly stopped by an after school literacy fair she had organized while she was suspended, that was considered insubordination and she was therefore fired.

“I don’t even know if the superintendent knows why she fired me, if she says its not about Trayvon Martin, I’d like to know what it is about,” said Harris.

While the academy could not comment specifically on Harris’ termination, the superintendent wants to reassure everyone that no job was lost due to a Trayvon Martin fundraiser.

**Foxrac** · 04-11-2012, 01:50 PM

Update: Source: Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Frisky Feline · 04-11-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyPaul

Embezzlement doesn't cause physical harm, assault does.

hell no. losing the retirement plan, paying more taxes that makes you suffer. you need to think twice!

sara1981 · 04-11-2012, 04:30 PM

Law enforcement source: Zimmerman will be charged
Law enforcement source: Zimmerman will be charged - CNN.com

Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case
Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case - CBS News

George Zimmerman to Face Charges: Report
Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman to Be Charged : People.com

Oprah Winfrey Wants to Sit Down with Trayvon Martin Shooter
Trayvon Martin: Oprah Winfrey Wants to Sit Down with George Zimmerman : People.com

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman 'to be charged'
BBC News - Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman 'to be charged'

BREAKING NEWS: Special prosecutor will charge George Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon Martin
BREAKING NEWS: Special prosecutor will charge George Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon Martin | Mail Online

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman expected to be charged
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman expected to be charged - Telegraph

'Shooter To Be Charged Over Teen's Death'
Trayvon Martin: US Prosecutor To Annnounce George Zimmerman Will Be Charged Over Death | World News | Sky News

C.C.Sinned · 04-11-2012, 04:36 PM

it should go to trail. all the way to verdict. that way everything comes to light.

sara1981 · 04-11-2012, 04:58 PM

Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case
APNewsBreak: Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case - Yahoo! News

George Zimmerman will be charged with 2nd-degree murder in Trayvon Martin shooting
George Zimmerman will be charged with 2nd-degree murder in Trayvon Martin shooting | todaysthv.com

Murder charge in Trayvon Martin killing
APNewsBreak: Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case - KATV Channel 7 - The Spirit of Arkansas:

Frisky Feline · 04-11-2012, 05:12 PM

zimmerman made a choice for letting it happen what he have done it to a little boy. oh boy

**Foxrac** · 04-11-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sara1981

Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case
APNewsBreak: Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case - Yahoo! News

George Zimmerman will be charged with 2nd-degree murder in Trayvon Martin shooting
George Zimmerman will be charged with 2nd-degree murder in Trayvon Martin shooting | todaysthv.com

Murder charge in Trayvon Martin killing
APNewsBreak: Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case - KATV Channel 7 - The Spirit of Arkansas:

2nd degree murder is more serious than manslaughter, not surprised.

**TXgolfer** · 04-11-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisky Feline

zimmerman made a choice for letting it happen what he have done it to a little boy. oh boy

That "little boy" was a 6'3" football "star"

Steinhauer · 04-11-2012, 05:41 PM

Shouldn't a person being charged for murder face a grand jury? What's up with these courts in Florida? They let a murdering mom go free last year now this ....

**Jiro** · 04-11-2012, 05:42 PM

2nd degree murder? That was unexpected because I was expecting a manslaughter charge. well either way - fine by me since it carries a maximum life sentence without parole. People like Zimmerman has no business in capacity of security/pseudo-law enforcement. I hope this serves as a stern warning to cop-wannabes/cop-rejects to re-think carefully and start finding a new line of career. They have no business in carrying guns in public especially with a mindset like Zimmerman's.

Stow your gun and mind your own business. Leave it to real cops with real badge to handle it.

Frisky Feline · 04-11-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

That "little boy" was a 6'3" football "star"

i know but he's a teen kid. I would still call him as a little boy.

**TXgolfer** · 04-11-2012, 05:46 PM

If I were Zimmerman I would be happy about this charge....seriously

rockin'robin · 04-11-2012, 05:51 PM

2nd Degree murder.....all the streets were blocked off downtown Jacksonville as Ms Corey made the news announcement....police everywhere with their vests on also....Zimmerman is in custody somewhere in Florida....location was not disclosed for safety reasons......he turned himself in.

Hopefully, the black community will now stop the riots, shootings, marchings, etc. And let this case go to trial.

04-10-2012, 07:08 PM	#36 (permalink)
C.C.Sinned Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,476	chaos & anarchy are more interesting! __________________

04-10-2012, 08:08 PM	#39 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,314	Corey to present new information SANFORD, Fla. - State Attorney Angela Corey announced to the media Tuesday night that she will hold a press conference sometime within the next three days. In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the Trayvon Martin shooting death investigation. The media will be notified three hours in advance of the news conference, as to when and where it will be held. It will be in either Jacksonville or Sanford. No other information was given. Corey to present new information \| News - Home

04-10-2012, 08:57 PM	#40 (permalink)
C.C.Sinned Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,476	after that, there is goes the neighborhood __________________

04-11-2012, 01:50 PM	#48 (permalink)
Foxrac Need Stormtroopers? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Zaphias Posts: 32,613	Update: Source: Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs __________________ In Moto We Trust

04-11-2012, 04:30 PM	#50 (permalink)
sara1981 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Little Rock,Ar Posts: 7,049	Law enforcement source: Zimmerman will be charged Law enforcement source: Zimmerman will be charged - CNN.com Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case - CBS News George Zimmerman to Face Charges: Report Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman to Be Charged : People.com Oprah Winfrey Wants to Sit Down with Trayvon Martin Shooter Trayvon Martin: Oprah Winfrey Wants to Sit Down with George Zimmerman : People.com Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman 'to be charged' BBC News - Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman 'to be charged' BREAKING NEWS: Special prosecutor will charge George Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon Martin BREAKING NEWS: Special prosecutor will charge George Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon Martin \| Mail Online Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman expected to be charged Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman expected to be charged - Telegraph 'Shooter To Be Charged Over Teen's Death' Trayvon Martin: US Prosecutor To Annnounce George Zimmerman Will Be Charged Over Death \| World News \| Sky News __________________

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04-10-2012, 06:44 PM	#33 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,314	Publicity....and just buying more time....hoping that the black community will quieten down somewhat.

04-10-2012, 07:37 PM	#38 (permalink)
Frisky Feline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 20,239	^^^ True. saywhatkid.

04-11-2012, 04:36 PM	#51 (permalink)
C.C.Sinned Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,476	it should go to trail. all the way to verdict. that way everything comes to light. __________________

04-11-2012, 04:58 PM	#52 (permalink)
sara1981 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Little Rock,Ar Posts: 7,049	Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case APNewsBreak: Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case - Yahoo! News George Zimmerman will be charged with 2nd-degree murder in Trayvon Martin shooting George Zimmerman will be charged with 2nd-degree murder in Trayvon Martin shooting \| todaysthv.com Murder charge in Trayvon Martin killing APNewsBreak: Murder charge in Trayvon Martin case - KATV Channel 7 - The Spirit of Arkansas: __________________

04-11-2012, 05:12 PM	#53 (permalink)
Frisky Feline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 20,239	zimmerman made a choice for letting it happen what he have done it to a little boy. oh boy

04-11-2012, 05:41 PM	#56 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	Shouldn't a person being charged for murder face a grand jury? What's up with these courts in Florida? They let a murdering mom go free last year now this ....

04-11-2012, 05:42 PM	#57 (permalink)
Jiro Aparecium Deletrius Legil Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Soprano State Posts: 60,544	2nd degree murder? That was unexpected because I was expecting a manslaughter charge. well either way - fine by me since it carries a maximum life sentence without parole. People like Zimmerman has no business in capacity of security/pseudo-law enforcement. I hope this serves as a stern warning to cop-wannabes/cop-rejects to re-think carefully and start finding a new line of career. They have no business in carrying guns in public especially with a mindset like Zimmerman's. Stow your gun and mind your own business. Leave it to real cops with real badge to handle it. __________________ - Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

04-11-2012, 05:46 PM	#59 (permalink)
TXgolfer Dream Weaver Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Everywhere Posts: 17,665	If I were Zimmerman I would be happy about this charge....seriously __________________ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:21 Sometimes at night, I see their faces. I feel the traces they've left on my soul

04-11-2012, 05:51 PM	#60 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,314	2nd Degree murder.....all the streets were blocked off downtown Jacksonville as Ms Corey made the news announcement....police everywhere with their vests on also....Zimmerman is in custody somewhere in Florida....location was not disclosed for safety reasons......he turned himself in. Hopefully, the black community will now stop the riots, shootings, marchings, etc. And let this case go to trial.

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