Reba

Maybe that's the law in NJ. That's not the law in all the states.

Deafness

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kokonut

Sad to see when people say that Zimmerman is a vigilante without even looking at all of the evidence first.

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"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Jiro

there are laws in other states allowing somebody to take matters into their own hands like a vigilante?

however... in Florida, it's illegal. and Trayvon didn't break any law.

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Steinhauer

except when he slammed Zimmerman's head repeatedly in the pavement.

yeah, I know how hard the media tried to cover that up ... it was in vain.

Jiro

as an aggressor or victim?

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Steinhauer

Think about that carefully.

A victim would not be on top of someone slamming their head repeatedly in the pavement.

Reba

I didn't say being a vigilante.

Watching out for and helping other people, and protecting property is not vigilantism.

Vigilantism is being the judge, jury, and hangman.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Jiro

A victim would be on top of someone carrying a gun, slamming his head repeatedly in the pavement. self-defense, you know.

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Jiro

that's fine with me.

1. when taking armed action against criminal harming or about to harm you, that's fine with me.
2. when taking armed action against criminal after witnessing a crime in progress, that's fine with me.
3. when saving a person being harmed by a criminal, that's fine with me. (same as #2)
4. when approaching a potentially dangerous situation that you felt was suspicious and took armed action against it, that's vigilantism.
5. when approaching a potentially dangerous situation that you felt was suspicious but no crime was committed by that person whom you thought was suspicious and you took armed action against it, that's either manslaughter or 2nd-degree murder or assault with deadly weapon.

an option that should be strongly encouraged before resorting to armed conflict - when suspecting a suspicious person, call a cop and your neighbor.

certainly not a vigilantism because it's called castle doctrine.

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TXgolfer

Are you sure? I am pretty sure slamming someone's head on the concrete constitutes assault in most states. That is one of the claims. Of course we will have to wait for all of the evidence.

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TXgolfer

Was the gun drawn or holstered when the head bashing began?

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TXgolfer

But, according to at least one version of events.....Zimmerman didn't take armed action because someone looked suspicious. He took armed action on someone who was assaulting him.

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Reba

From dictionary.com:

vig·i·lan·te

   [vij-uh-lan-tee]


noun 1. a member of a vigilance committee.

2. any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.



adjective 3. done violently and summarily, without recourse to lawful procedures: vigilante justice.

Jiro

are you?

and I'm pretty sure that it's allowable for self-defense reason.

Right. How unfortunate that Trayvon isn't available to dispute otherwise.

Right. That's why you shouldn't bother asking me any of the questions above unless you know for sure.

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Jiro

correct.

fast-forward to approximately one minute later...

smells like vigilantism. I, of course, am open to hearing Zimmerman's version at trial.

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Reba

"Taking the law into one's own hands and attempting to effect justice according to one's own understanding of right and wrong; action taken by a voluntary association of persons who organize themselves for the purpose of protecting a common interest, such as liberty, property, or personal security; action taken by an individual or group to protest existing law; action taken by an individual or group to enforce a higher law than that enacted by society's designated lawmaking institutions; private enforcement of legal norms in the absence of an established, reliable, and effective law enforcement body."

Vigilantism legal definition of Vigilantism. Vigilantism synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Jiro

correct.

As far as I'm concerned, Trayvon didn't commit any crime prior to encounter with Zimmerman.

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Reba

A vigilante seeks to punish a suspected lawbreaker without due process.

Where is there proof or even the accusation that Zimmerman was seeking to punish a suspected lawbreaker without due process? Where is the proof that Zimmerman was stalking Martin with the intention of punishing him by shooting him to death?

If Zimmerman truly was a vigilante, he would have never called the police. He would have stalked and killed Martin, then left the scene, without ever calling the police.

Reba

I didn't say that Martin committed any crime prior to encountering Zimmerman.

The point is, there is no indication that Zimmerman was stalking Martin in order to kill him. That would be a vigilante murder.

TXgolfer

Actually, it's why I should.

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TXgolfer

Not really

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Jiro

well how does vigilante differ from murderer?

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Jiro

Prosecutors thought otherwise. That's why Zimmerman will have his day in trial to prove his innocence.

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TXgolfer

Actually I think the prosecutors felt political pressure and caved in. When a lib like the Dersh is calling the case "thin" you have a problem. But I think having a trial is a good thing even necessary at this point. I hope they actually have a trial and facts are presented.

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Jiro

you're, of course, entitled to your opinion.

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Reba

People commit murders for many reasons. Vigilantism is just one of them. Also, vigilantism doesn't always end up in a death.

A vigilante murder is specifically when a person or group targets an individual or group of individuals for "justice," meaning imposing revenge, and avoiding legal due process.

Reba

Sigh . . . Our Constitution never requires a defendant to "prove his innocence." It's up to the state to prove guilt.

kokonut

Absolutely. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. This has always been the case. Always. It is the prosecutor who has the burden to prove guilt. Not the other way around.

Some people minds' are already made up without having all of the facts before them.

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"... turns out they are telling the truth."

CrazyPaul

Recently at work I saw a newspaper that is published for black readers. The articles were about black men getting killed such as Trayvon and other black guys. It didn't report anything about white people attacked/killed by black men. I find that interesting. Also it said that if Trayvon was white, Zimmerman would be arrested at the scene. What? Police would not arrest Zimmerman if he shot Trayvon in self-defense whether he was white or black.

Steinhauer

Just because GZ had a gun does not make him the aggressor. The fallacy in that Jiro, is if you carried concealed you are aggressive.