Trayvon Case Investigation - Page 16

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

huh? I'm not even going to bother answering this when I already answered this already in a great detail. You even included my post in your reply.

This...

Quote:

so if I see something "suspicious".... I should walk over to my neighbor w/ a shotgun?

I hope my neighbor doesn't get freaked out and mistakenly shot me or other neighbor frantically calling cop on me because he/she sees a "suspicious person" holding a shotgun, checking out a house. I'm pretty sure it will end quite ugly.

This is not really an answer to "What WOULD you do?" However you did answer in post #450 I see.

Now, what if you were returning home and armed when you saw this suspicious person? Would you run inside and stow your firearm before approaching this suspicious person to say "may I help you?"

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

This...

This is not really an answer to "What WOULD you do?" However you did answer in post #450 I see.

Now, what if you were returning home and armed when you saw this suspicious person? Would you run inside and stow your firearm before approaching this suspicious person to say "may I help you?"

see Post #450 especially 2nd paragraph. It all depends on your common sense, training, and circumstance to make a best judgment possible.

rockin'robin · 04-16-2012, 11:50 AM

Shotguns are basically used in rural areas....and if you are a "stranger" walking around in a rural area, especially at night....I'm sure any home owner would grab his shotgun to check it out. And most likely, confront that person and ask what they are doing out there, and with your shotgun. And you more than likely might get an azz full of buck shot (in rural areas), because the Police would take a very long time to get to your property...if you don't have a "good excuse" that sets right with the property owner.

Even here in the city, if a stranger is walking around at night in my neighborhood, I would become suspicious, especially if there had been a lot of robberies. And if that strange person was randomly walking around my neighborhood wearing a hoodie to cover his face, gives me all the more "suspicion", especially at night. That's factual.

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

see Post #450 especially 2nd paragraph. It all depends on your common sense, training, and circumstance to make a best judgment possible.

That doesn't really answer the question. It's pretty simple..... would you stow your weapon in your home before asking the person "may I help you?"

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

That doesn't really answer the question. It's pretty simple..... would you stow your weapon in your home before asking the person "may I help you?"

See Post #142. I reiterate - there's no easy yes or no answer. it depends on circumstance so I'll know when I'm there.

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Shotguns are basically used in rural areas....and if you are a "stranger" walking around in a rural area, especially at night....I'm sure any home owner would grab his shotgun to check it out. And most likely, confront that person and ask what they are doing out there, and with your shotgun. And you more than likely might get an azz full of buck shot (in rural areas), because the Police would take a very long time to get to your property...if you don't have a "good excuse" that sets right with the property owner.

shotgun is the easiest and best home defense weapon. all you gotta do is point and shoot and you will definitely hit the target. and the sight of your shotgun is the biggest fear factor so you'll most likely won't have to use it

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Even here in the city, if a stranger is walking around at night in my neighborhood, I would become suspicious, especially if there had been a lot of robberies. And if that strange person was randomly walking around my neighborhood wearing a hoodie to cover his face, gives me all the more "suspicion", especially at night. That's factual.

well.... it's a city! everybody is suspicious.

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

See Post #142. I reiterate - there's no easy yes or no answer. it depends on circumstance so I'll know when I'm there.

Ah, I see.

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Ah, I see.

keep in mind that when it comes to guns, it's never simple. you cannot expect a simple yes or no answer. there's no guidelines or flow chart for most scenarios. all we can do is hope that armed citizens especially CCW holders have a better sense of common sense and judgement than regular folks. that's called being a responsible law-abiding armed citizen.

Most CCW holders have had additional weapon trainings and they do participate in competition like IDPA here and there. For those who didn't and felt no need for it, that would raise a serious concern for us because one's action can adversely impact our self-defense rights.

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

keep in mind that when it comes to guns, it's never simple. you cannot expect a simple yes or no answer. there's no guidelines or flow chart for most scenarios. all we can do is hope that armed citizens especially CCW holders have a better sense of common sense and judgement than regular folks. that's called being a responsible law-abiding armed citizen.

Most CCW holders have had additional weapon trainings and they do participate in competition like IDPA here and there. For those who didn't and felt no need for it, that would raise a serious concern for us because one's action can adversely impact our self-defense rights.

No doubt....

kokonut · 04-16-2012, 02:12 PM

Fair trial for Zimmerman not likely on home turf, say legal experts | Fox News

I blame some in the media for their irresponsible handling of this story exacerbating the situation.

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Fair trial for Zimmerman not likely on home turf, say legal experts | Fox News

I blame some in the media for their irresponsible handling of this story exacerbating the situation.

that's to be expected. I definitely want Zimmerman to have a fair trial.

**Reba** · 04-16-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

See Post #142. I reiterate - there's no easy yes or no answer. it depends on circumstance so I'll know when I'm there.

Perhaps that's what Zimmerman was also thinking.

kokonut · 04-16-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Perhaps that's what Zimmerman was also thinking.

Which is why we need to wait until the court convenes and evidence produced, and see exactly what went on and what he was thinking and experiencing at the time. I've never saw so many assumptions surrounding this case thinking it was an open and shut case. No thank you, I don't have the need to be judge, jury,and executioner or play a wannabe investigator when much of the evidences are still locked up from the public.

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Which is why we need to wait until the court convenes and evidence produced, and see exactly what went on and what he was thinking and experiencing at the time. I've never saw so many assumptions surrounding this case thinking it was an open and shut case. No thank you, I don't have the need to be judge, jury,and executioner or play a wannabe investigator when much of the evidences are still locked up from the public.

I guess you should have withheld your assumptions in the beginning then....

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I guess you should have withheld your assumptions in the beginning then....

Like?

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Perhaps that's what Zimmerman was also thinking.

Exactly...

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Like?

Florida Neighborhood Watch
Florida Neighborhood Watch
Florida Neighborhood Watch

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Perhaps that's what Zimmerman was also thinking.

well let's see -

Quote:

Zimmerman: We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher: OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

911 dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman: Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher: He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman: Now he’s staring at me. [00:48]

911 dispatcher: OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman: That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher: He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman: Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band. And he’s a black male.[1:03]

911 dispatcher: How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman: He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher: Late teens?

Zimmerman: Uh, huh. Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20]

911 dispatcher: Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Zimmerman: OK.

911 dispatcher: We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman: OK. These assholes. They always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

911 dispatcher: OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman: Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left. He’s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher: OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance.

911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]

Looking at 911 transcription, it's very clear that the situation was potentially dangerous because Trayvon could be armed with a knife, screwdriver, gun, etc. What was Zimmerman thinking by chasing after him since he sounds dangerous?

That I do not know.... Initially, it doesn't look good for Zimmerman because it does smell like a vigilantism. If the trial shows otherwise... I can accept it.

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Florida Neighborhood Watch
Florida Neighborhood Watch
Florida Neighborhood Watch

Did you just throw three links in here hoping no one would read them. Yeah these are major "assumptions" about the case....

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

well let's see -

Looking at 911 transcription, it's very clear that the situation was potentially dangerous because Trayvon could be armed with a knife, screwdriver, gun, etc. What was Zimmerman thinking by chasing after him since he sounds dangerous?

That I do not know.... Initially, it doesn't look good for Zimmerman because it does smell like a vigilantism. If the trial shows otherwise... I can accept it.

There ya go!

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Did you just throw three links in here hoping no one would read them. Yeah these are major "assumptions" about the case....

huh? what do you mean? I find it deeply puzzling and somewhat disturbing that you, rolling, and steinhauer always think I'm up to something no good.

the QUOTE button there is gone since the thread got locked up. I'm not gonna waste my time to copy/paste everything and put it in quote box. Paranoid much?

**TXgolfer** · 04-16-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

huh? what do you mean? I find it deeply puzzling and somewhat disturbing that you, rolling, and steinhauer always think I'm up to something no good.

the QUOTE button there is gone since the thread got locked up. I'm not gonna waste my time to copy/paste everything and put it in quote box. Paranoid much?

No need to do that.....it was easy enough to click on the links.

sara1981 · 04-16-2012, 05:20 PM

Zimmerman's lawyer asks to have judge removed from case
Zimmerman's lawyer asks to have judge removed from case - CNN.com

George Zimmerman's attorney Mark O' Mara files request for judge to recuse herself from the Trayvon Martin case
George Zimmerman's attorney Mark O' Mara files request for judge to recuse herself from the Trayvon Martin case - Crimesider - CBS News

we will kept update news

sara1981 · 04-16-2012, 07:36 PM

Trayvon Martin case also about guns
Trayvon Martin case also about guns - CNN.com

Steinhauer · 04-16-2012, 08:01 PM

Indiana Man Fights Armed Robber Over Moped and Wins - ABC News

Just wondering if he hesitated to defend himself due to all the media attention on the Trayvon case. You can see him reaching for his gun several times but just doesn't draw.

He gets shot and still will not draw his gun.

airportcop · 04-16-2012, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

well let's see -

Looking at 911 transcription, it's very clear that the situation was potentially dangerous because Trayvon could be armed with a knife, screwdriver, gun, etc. What was Zimmerman thinking by chasing after him since he sounds dangerous?

That I do not know.... Initially, it doesn't look good for Zimmerman because it does smell like a vigilantism. If the trial shows otherwise... I can accept it.

No, it looks like to me that he didn't want Trayvon to get away like the other criminals in the past. He was trying to make sure that the Police got this guy. What happened next I do not know. Maybe Trayvon confronted him maybe not but I would say that is a very good possibility based on Trayvon's past history. It is quite conceivable that he approached or attacked Zimmerman and he had to defend himself. We certainly can't rule that out at this point. By the way, in case some were wondering, the dispatcher has no legal authority to tell Zimmerman to back off. While following him may not be the best thing to do it doesn't make it illegal either!

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

No need to do that.....it was easy enough to click on the links.

great.

Quote:

Did you just throw three links in here hoping no one would read them.

really? next time - you might want to rethink your tone.

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airportcop

No, it looks like to me that he didn't want Trayvon to get away like the other criminals in the past. He was trying to make sure that the Police got this guy. What happened next I do not know. Maybe Trayvon confronted him maybe not but I would say that is a very good possibility based on Trayvon's past history. It is quite conceivable that he approached or attacked Zimmerman and he had to defend himself. We certainly can't rule that out at this point. By the way, in case some were wondering, the dispatcher has no legal authority to tell Zimmerman to back off. While following him may not be the best thing to do it doesn't make it illegal either!

actually it is illegal to take matters into your own hands unless a person is dying or being hurt by a thug. that's why we prosecute vigilante. now we shall see if Zimmerman is a vigilante or victim.

kokonut · 04-16-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Indiana Man Fights Armed Robber Over Moped and Wins - ABC News

Just wondering if he hesitated to defend himself due to all the media attention on the Trayvon case. You can see him reaching for his gun several times but just doesn't draw.

He gets shot and still will not draw his gun.

Too bad there were no security video of the Zimmerman prior to Trayvon getting shot (as far as we know, of course). It'd avoid lots of unnecessary guessing games by those thinking they own the truth.

**Jiro** · 04-16-2012, 10:11 PM

Zimmerman's lawyer asks to have judge removed from case - CNN.com

Quote:

George Zimmerman, here with attorney Mark O' Mara last week, will return to court Friday for a bail hearing.
(CNN) -- George Zimmerman's defense team formally requested Monday that the Florida judge assigned to their client's case be removed after she revealed her husband works with a CNN legal analyst.

Mark O'Mara's office filed paperwork Monday asking that Seminole Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler not preside over second-degree murder proceedings involving Zimmerman, according to Seminole County Court spokeswoman Michelle Kennedy.

The motion to "disqualify" the trial judge "will be ruled on in the appropriate manner," Kennedy said Monday.

Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, fatally shot teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, on February 26, a killing he has said was in self-defense. Since then, the case has stirred civil rights activists nationwide and drawn intense publicity.

Bill Cosby: Guns, not race, key issue in Martin case

Recksiedler is assigned to the Zimmerman case. But on Friday, she said she would entertain motions to disqualify her from the trial after discovering that her husband is a law partner of Mark NeJame, an attorney whom Zimmerman approached about representing him and has since widely commented on the case in the media. NeJame is now a CNN contributor, providing analysis on this case.

Was George Zimmerman weeping in jail?
Brother: Trayvon wasn't 'violent'
NeJame told CNN that Zimmerman "contacted my office, attempting to reach me, and wanted to hire me to represent him" on March 13. One of his law partners relayed that request to NeJame, who declined. He explained later that he knew how taking on "big national cases (can) take a lot out of you" and wanted to have more time to spend with his children.

"I decided simply not to," the Orlando lawyer said.

A friend of Zimmerman's later repeated the request in a direct conversation with NeJame early last week, just as lawyers Hal Uhrig and Craig Sonner said they'd no longer represent Zimmerman. By then, NeJame noted he'd been hired by CNN to serve as an analyst.

NeJame again said he could not represent Zimmerman and offered the names of five lawyers -- topped by O'Mara -- who might be considered instead.

"They said Mark is the one we want, I put them together, and they took it from there," said NeJame.

O'Mara had indicated on Friday that the defense might request a new judge, when he said the association between NeJame and the Recksiedlers might become "more and more problematic" given the scrutiny the case is receiving.

He told CNN on Monday night that he was confident the request to pull Recksiedler off the case would succeed.

"If it is reasonably well-founded and sworn to, it'll be granted," O'Mara said.

Insisting that there had been "full transparency," NeJame said Monday that he understood why Zimmerman's defense team asked for the judge's removal -- because of his involvement in the case and his professional relationship with her husband -- and was content that the matter is now in the legal system's control.

"Everybody just needs to do the right thing, file it and let the process (be resolved) properly," NeJame said.

Meanwhile, news media organizations, including CNN, petitioned Recksiedler on Monday to reverse an order sealing court records in Zimmerman's prosecution.

Prosecutors did not object when Zimmerman's attorneys asked Recksiedler to seal records last week. The judge ordered the court filings and other records sealed "without giving the public and press an opportunity to oppose closure," the media said in its motion.

Cosby on the Trayvon Martin case
Florida law requires a judge to consider whether the records closure is needed to "prevent a serious and imminent threat" to justice, the media members argued.

The court must also find that there is no alternative to sealing the records that would provide a fair trial and that the action would not be "broader than necessary to accomplish this purpose," they said.

Zimmerman's attorneys did not address those issues or present any evidence, the motion said.

Older brother: Trayvon was a happy teen

"In case after case in Florida, courts -- including the United States Supreme Court -- have held that prominence and publicity are not synonymous with prejudice and impartiality, and have cautioned against assuming that all potential jurors follow the news and retain what they read and watch," the media filing says.

Jurors who can't set aside their biases created by exposure to pretrial publicity can be screened out during jury selection, the media motion argued.

Besides CNN, several broadcasting and newspaper companies -- including the publishers of USA Today, The Miami Herald and The New York Times -- are part of the effort to unseal the documents.

O'Mara said Monday that he favors keeping documents sealed in this case in large part because of concerns that witnesses might be contacted and in danger if certain information is released.

"(Our) overall philosophy (is) to keep the information flow concentrated within the court system," he told CNN. "It's much better handled there."

As to his client, O'Mara said he speaks "at least a couple times a day" with Zimmerman, whom he described as doing well physically but "frightened."

Zimmerman is scheduled to return to court Friday for a bail hearing.

O'Mara says that he hopes his client will be eligible for bond after that hearing and eventually be allowed to go free until the trial. If he does get out, though, the lawyer said there are legitimate fears about Zimmerman's safety.

"There have been a lot of emotions that have come forward in this case, and some of those emotions have shown themselves in bad ways," O'Mara said.

04-16-2012, 02:12 PM	#460 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	Fair trial for Zimmerman not likely on home turf, say legal experts \| Fox News I blame some in the media for their irresponsible handling of this story exacerbating the situation. airportcop likes this. __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

04-16-2012, 05:20 PM	#473 (permalink)
sara1981 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Little Rock,Ar Posts: 7,062	Zimmerman's lawyer asks to have judge removed from case Zimmerman's lawyer asks to have judge removed from case - CNN.com George Zimmerman's attorney Mark O' Mara files request for judge to recuse herself from the Trayvon Martin case George Zimmerman's attorney Mark O' Mara files request for judge to recuse herself from the Trayvon Martin case - Crimesider - CBS News we will kept update news __________________

04-16-2012, 07:36 PM	#474 (permalink)
sara1981 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Little Rock,Ar Posts: 7,062	Trayvon Martin case also about guns Trayvon Martin case also about guns - CNN.com __________________

04-16-2012, 08:01 PM	#475 (permalink)
Steinhauer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	Indiana Man Fights Armed Robber Over Moped and Wins - ABC News Just wondering if he hesitated to defend himself due to all the media attention on the Trayvon case. You can see him reaching for his gun several times but just doesn't draw. He gets shot and still will not draw his gun. __________________ Annuit Cœptis ><((({> Once upon a time men could speak honestly and wisely and people would listen. Now it seems that propaganda is the preferred method of communication regardless if there is any truth behind it or not.*

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04-16-2012, 11:50 AM	#453 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,677	Shotguns are basically used in rural areas....and if you are a "stranger" walking around in a rural area, especially at night....I'm sure any home owner would grab his shotgun to check it out. And most likely, confront that person and ask what they are doing out there, and with your shotgun. And you more than likely might get an azz full of buck shot (in rural areas), because the Police would take a very long time to get to your property...if you don't have a "good excuse" that sets right with the property owner. Even here in the city, if a stranger is walking around at night in my neighborhood, I would become suspicious, especially if there had been a lot of robberies. And if that strange person was randomly walking around my neighborhood wearing a hoodie to cover his face, gives me all the more "suspicion", especially at night. That's factual.