Heath

I think we have to be careful not to box and categorise people. It's tempting but it does nothing for promoting understanding between people who have chosen to make different decisions for whatever reason.
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R2D2, that description was not born out of "deafer then thou" mentality. Lev and I weren't talking about the parents who give their kids oral skills, and don't mind if their kids learn ASL. These are parents who are extremely anti ASL and who just want healthy normal kids. I don't know if it's a purely American thing.....but there are a lot of parents who just want their kids to speak only. And the ironic thing is that if their kids got to learn another spoken language, they'd be all excited about it.
Trust me, this group of parents IS deeply in denial about their kids.....there's really no grey area in this group of parents.
 
deafdyke said:
R2D2, that description was not born out of "deafer then thou" mentality. Lev and I weren't talking about the parents who give their kids oral skills, and don't mind if their kids learn ASL. These are parents who are extremely anti ASL and who just want healthy normal kids. I don't know if it's a purely American thing.....but there are a lot of parents who just want their kids to speak only. And the ironic thing is that if their kids got to learn another spoken language, they'd be all excited about it.
Trust me, this group of parents IS deeply in denial about their kids.....there's really no grey area in this group of parents.
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I do understand what you are saying and I have seen similar people that you describe when growing up in the UK as well who placed a heavy emphasis on being "normal" and sign was definitely looked down upon. The only difference back then was that hearing aids were the be and end all to make that happen rather than CIs.

However my point is that we cannot align CIs with that subset of people. CI wearers come from all sorts of backgrounds and it would be a shame if people here perpectuated stereotypes rather than look at the person for the individual they are.

That was all - I sympathise with your feelings about that particular group you mention! :)
 
I hear you DD. I grew up in that mindset and fortunately for me it worked out as far as being successfull in the hearing world. The rationale my mom got was I either was going to be signing all the time or participate in the hearing world all the time...no in between. To some extent I think (and still believe) there is some validity to it but I have since come around to the idea that more tools for most people is the better approach. I have seen too many things in life to note that what I accomplished is not easy and not all that common either (pre CI). Of course the whole recent CI era is changing that as well (not so much from my perspective as it was anticipated that I do well with one) from the perspective of those with HAs and where it just doesn't help them or starting them off young with CIs.

If there is any constant in life, it is the fact things keep changing and throws everybody off... ;)
 
However my point is that we cannot align CIs with that subset of people.
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Very true. After all the healthy normal mentality can be seen with kids with hearing aids. Remember even before CIs, ten percent of deaf kids were orally educated. And I mean even Coachlear's site says that its users are evenly divided between oral users (many of whom will eventually learn Sign) and TCers.
 
deafdyke said:
Very true. After all the healthy normal mentality can be seen with kids with hearing aids. Remember even before CIs, ten percent of deaf kids were orally educated. And I mean even Coachlear's site says that its users are evenly divided between oral users (many of whom will eventually learn Sign) and TCers.
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That is interesting I didn't know that oral only education was as low as 10%. Like S171soars I did very well from that approach but I saw others who didn't do very well and I feel that it failed them. The philosophy back then was that if you taught a child to sign you could forget about them ever learning to talk.

If I ever have a child that is profoundly deaf I would do a similar approach to Cloggy - sign with them but also give them the opportunity of a CI. I've learned that the earlier language (whichever form) is acquired the better.

You might be interested in this news story about how CIs are changing the landscape at a deaf camp but where signing is still used and encouraged. Interesting.
 
R2D2 said:
That is interesting I didn't know that oral only education was as low as 10%. Like S171soars I did very well from that approach but I saw others who didn't do very well and I feel that it failed them. The philosophy back then was that if you taught a child to sign you could forget about them ever learning to talk.

If I ever have a child that is profoundly deaf I would do a similar approach to Cloggy - sign with them but also give them the opportunity of a CI. I've learned that the earlier language (whichever form) is acquired the better.

You might be interested in this news story about how CIs are changing the landscape at a deaf camp but where signing is still used and encouraged. Interesting.
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Yeah good article but it was already posted in AD :)
http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=29659

where DD did reply eh..
 
R2D2 said:
That is interesting I didn't know that oral only education was as low as 10%. Like S171soars I did very well from that approach but I saw others who didn't do very well and I feel that it failed them. The philosophy back then was that if you taught a child to sign you could forget about them ever learning to talk.

If I ever have a child that is profoundly deaf I would do a similar approach to Cloggy - sign with them but also give them the opportunity of a CI. I've learned that the earlier language (whichever form) is acquired the better.

You might be interested in this news story about how CIs are changing the landscape at a deaf camp but where signing is still used and encouraged. Interesting.
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Wow, what a coincidence, I just seen that that article a couple of days ago. I live in Chicago and and am very interested in putting my daughter in that camp next year when she's 6. I brought that up to her AV theraphist and she was kind of iffy about it.
 
kayla123 said:
Wow, what a coincidence, I just seen that that article a couple of days ago. I live in Chicago and and am very interested in putting my daughter in that camp next year when she's 6. I brought that up to her AV theraphist and she was kind of iffy about it.
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Follow your instincts as a mother and not the people with phd's and stuff ;)

It'd be awesome if your daughter interacts with peers with the same disability. It will show her she's not alone and that there is nothing wrong with her :)
 
Fragmenter said:
Follow your instincts as a mother and not the people with phd's and stuff ;)

It'd be awesome if your daughter interacts with peers with the same disability. It will show her she's not alone and that there is nothing wrong with her :)
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Your absolutely right Fragmenter, i would put her in regardless what her av therapist says, i just brought it up to her and asked if she heard of it. :)
 
live in Chicago and and am very interested in putting my daughter in that camp next year when she's 6. I brought that up to her AV theraphist and she was kind of iffy about it.
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Definitly do it!!!!!!!!!!!! There's really nothing wrong with English being your daughter's first language, as long as she gets exposed to ASL and Deaf culture relatively early. I think AV therapy can help a lot of dhh kids, but at the same time hearing parents have to be VERY VERY careful not to go overboard with the AV philopsophy.
The thing is that AVer professoionals tend to really promote assilimatlation into the hearing world for dhh kids. While access to the hearing world is available to many dhh kids, very few can totally feel totally comfortable in the hearing world. Even many of the superstars, have significent social issues in the hearing world. It's best to give dhh kids a VARIETY of tools and the choices and options to use those tools!
 
deafdyke said:
Definitly do it!!!!!!!!!!!! There's really nothing wrong with English being your daughter's first language, as long as she gets exposed to ASL and Deaf culture relatively early. I think AV therapy can help a lot of dhh kids, but at the same time hearing parents have to be VERY VERY careful not to go overboard with the AV philopsophy.
The thing is that AVer professoionals tend to really promote assilimatlation into the hearing world for dhh kids. While access to the hearing world is available to many dhh kids, very few can totally feel totally comfortable in the hearing world. Even many of the superstars, have significent social issues in the hearing world. It's best to give dhh kids a VARIETY of tools and the choices and options to use those tools! [[[[[[[[[[ I agree with you, i am trying to expose her to both worlds. When i first found out about her deafness, i was in denial, so scared and confused because it was so new to me. I wanted her to talk so bad because i could'nt imagine her going through life not being able to communicate verbally. Now that i've learned more about her deafness, i know she will be just fine, and when i seen seen that article i knew that she not only would have a great time at the camp, but that she could start seeing other kids just like her and interact socially with them. We've watched a couple of dvds together about being deaf and she was so interested on how they were signing. I told her she was going to learn to sign and she was so excited.
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That's awesome Kayla123! I'm trying to think......are there any self contained classrooms for dhh kids in your school district? How far are you from a Deaf School? Even if your daughter is doing well in the mainstream, she still might be able to significently benifit from dhh specific educational services! It might also prepare her for going to a deaf program when she is older. Some kids who do decently in the mainstream in the early grades tend to do worse later on. Have you joined the American Society for Deaf Children? That's so cool that she's psyched about learning Sign. Point out...."Hey isn't it cool that we have a cool language that we can use when your CI/hearing aid isn't working?"
Wish there were more parents of auditory verbal and orally educated parents like you! If there were, then I can guarentee you that some of the oral bashing or bashing of hearing parents wouldn't even exist.
You're a great mom!!!!!! There are also camps for dhh kids through the Deaf schools, you might want to look into those.
 
deafdyke said:
That's awesome Kayla123! I'm trying to think......are there any self contained classrooms for dhh kids in your school district? How far are you from a Deaf School? Even if your daughter is doing well in the mainstream, she still might be able to significently benifit from dhh specific educational services! It might also prepare her for going to a deaf program when she is older. Some kids who do decently in the mainstream in the early grades tend to do worse later on. Have you joined the American Society for Deaf Children? That's so cool that she's psyched about learning Sign. Point out...."Hey isn't it cool that we have a cool language that we can use when your CI/hearing aid isn't working?"
Wish there were more parents of auditory verbal and orally educated parents like you! If there were, then I can guarentee you that some of the oral bashing or bashing of hearing parents wouldn't even exist.
You're a great mom!!!!!! There are also camps for dhh kids through the Deaf schools, you might want to look into those.
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Thanks deafdyke, to be honest i have'nt really looked at any deaf schools in our area, i put her in an all hearing preschool and she did pretty good keeping up with her peers(in some cases she did better...lol :))I spent a lot of time volunteering at her preschool to make sure she was comfortable and did'nt feel isolated from the other kids and i to also wanted to make sure she was understanding and learning what the she was being taught. After talking with her teacher and from what i saw for myself she will be mainstreamed. i checked with her school and they do have a hearing impaired teacher that works with the dhh kids in between and after school. I am going to register her at that dhh camp that was posted but i have to wait till next summer when she's 6 because that's the age they accept kids at that camp. Thanks for the info about the American Society For Deaf Children, again i'm fairly new to this and learning something here everyday.
 
i checked with her school and they do have a hearing impaired teacher that works with the dhh kids in between and after school.
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Is that one on one or in group? You may want to find out if there are any dhh self contained classrooms in your area. She wouldn't have to go there full time, but more on an enrichment "once a week" basis (sort of like the way some kids have gifted/talented programs) I know that the educational philosophy is that if they suceed in hearing schools, then they don't "need" deaf schooling. That's really good that she did so well in the hearing preschool......I'm assuming it was minmal accomondations. However, as the work gets harder or the social scene gets harder, she may need more traditional dhh accomondations. Very few dhh kids can totally and completely suceed in a totally mainstream very mininmal accomondation enviroment.
I'm pretty sure I have posted the website info for ASDC previously, but will find it again and repost it. It's a lot more ASL accepting then Auditory Verbal International, and AG Bell, but doesn't really bash oralism. There are a ton of parents on its listserv that have dhh kids of all flavors and stripes.
 
kayla123, definitly see if your daughter might be able to attend a dhh program, on an enrichment level. I really think that would help her so much! This is how I'm thinking......she has proved that she's doing well in a hearing classroom. She doesn't desperately need Hearing specific stuff any more. It's now very second nature to her. She's more functionally hoh now. Because many hoh kids tend to fall through the cracks, it's important to give them Deaf specific stuff. Like a lot of dhh kids are gratful that they can hear and talk.....they're just wondering why that means that exposure to Sign and Deaf culture has to be limited. Hoh kids can and do benifit from Deaf specific things.....but we very rarely get that sort of stuff b/c the experts think we're not "deaf enough." I applaud you for considering Sign......but don't forget about everything else too! I'm hoh and was totally mainstreamed. While I did OK, I never felt like the mainstream education totally met my needs. There's also the fact that most mainstream special ed teachers are not really too good or well trained about teaching kids with classic(non learning disabilites) disabilites. I always felt like I was lumped in with the "Ummm who's President Bush?" types....my needs weren't adquatly met, and so I really couldn't suceed (and I did OK acadmicly). Definitly contact the Deaf schools/ deaf programs in your area to find out if there are ways they can help you, and other sugguestions they may have.
Also, you should join the American Society for Deaf Children, as I mentioned above. Here is the link: http://helium.cyberwoven.com/deafchildren.org/
and here is a great listserv: http://listserv.kent.edu/archives/parentdeaf-hh.html
 
deafdyke said:
kayla123, definitly see if your daughter might be able to attend a dhh program, on an enrichment level. I really think that would help her so much! This is how I'm thinking......she has proved that she's doing well in a hearing classroom. She doesn't desperately need Hearing specific stuff any more. It's now very second nature to her. She's more functionally hoh now. Because many hoh kids tend to fall through the cracks, it's important to give them Deaf specific stuff. Like a lot of dhh kids are gratful that they can hear and talk.....they're just wondering why that means that exposure to Sign and Deaf culture has to be limited. Hoh kids can and do benifit from Deaf specific things.....but we very rarely get that sort of stuff b/c the experts think we're not "deaf enough." I applaud you for considering Sign......but don't forget about everything else too! I'm hoh and was totally mainstreamed. While I did OK, I never felt like the mainstream education totally met my needs. There's also the fact that most mainstream special ed teachers are not really too good or well trained about teaching kids with classic(non learning disabilites) disabilites. I always felt like I was lumped in with the "Ummm who's President Bush?" types....my needs weren't adquatly met, and so I really couldn't suceed (and I did OK acadmicly). Definitly contact the Deaf schools/ deaf programs in your area to find out if there are ways they can help you, and other sugguestions they may have.
Also, you should join the American Society for Deaf Children, as I mentioned above. Here is the link: http://helium.cyberwoven.com/deafchildren.org/
and here is a great listserv: http://listserv.kent.edu/archives/parentdeaf-hh.html[/QUOT
Good point deafdyke, i see what your saying. Thanks for the websights, i'm always looking for different sights to go to. I usally go to AG Bell. I know she needs the exposure to both worlds not only to help her academically, but to let her interact with other dhh kids in her same situation. She's always around my family who really knows nothing about the deaf culture and due to the fact that they see her hearing and talking, they think "well oh, she can hear now so she's not deaf anymore". I explain otherwise but i guess they have blinders on. Don't get me wrong, i have a wonderful and very supporting family. I just know as she is getting older she needs to understand herself better by being around other dhh kids.
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YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad you see what I'm saying! I've been rebuffed with "Oh you don't understand......things have changed....yadda yadda yadda"
But we hoh kids tend to fall through the cracks......We've always had Hearing Health style stuff, and except for some minor exceptions, very few of us feel totally comfortable in the hearing world. Maybe hoh kids could also significently benifit from the Deaf world too!
Look into having her go to a Deaf program once a week or so.......it would be much better then going to an old lady Dhh Teacher once or twice a week.....would get her learning ASL and get to know other dhh kids just like her.....I can rememebr thinking I was the only dhh kid in the universe.....NO KID should EVER EVER have to go through that.
I think some AG Bell types are a little too "perfect utopia" when it comes to speech only (and despite the fact there are some Bellers who use Sign, there are extremists out there) and mainstreaming, and they don't see the downsides of it.
 
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