Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cloggy said:
Cued Speech can very well be a reason why parents decide not to use ASL... so it's very relevant..
Click to expand...

Cloggy - This could be a possibility. The family may see the Deaf community as their child’s fluent, proficient, accurate role model for American Sign Language, and the child’s own family as the fluent, proficient, accurate role model for the family language.
 
Holly said:
Can I just say...as an answer to every post that questions what i believe...THAT I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN DOING WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILD. USING SIGN AS A FIRST LANGUAGE AND ORAL AS A SECOND IS BENEFICIAL FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!! It gives the child a strong language base that they are equally capable of achieving, oral is learned so they can communicate relatively effective with others who do not know sign.

Why does it seem so unreasonable that children should have one solid language base? This will help the child emotionally and psychologically by letting them know that they have a solid form of communication with loved ones.

Why is that so hard to understand? I'm dyslexic...maybe I'm not writing it well...
Click to expand...

I am with you, Holly. It is those hard-of-understanding that bugs me, too. :) The Bilingual-Bicultural education bear this out. They just don't see it yet. I hope everybody will eventually see that Bi-Bi education is the way to go soon.
 
Doug5 said:
My parents and I never learned to sign cuz the professionals said it wasnt necessary. Oral language is not natural for the deaf and hoh. All languages are created with sounds that can be heard by most people. Sounds only audible to animals are not used.

No matter how well the hoh and deaf learn to compensate in the hearing world, they will miss some words and sentences. This puts the deaf and hoh at a disadvantage in the oral world. Missing words and sentences is unacceptable to hearing folk, so why should the deaf and hoh be expected to tolerate it?

I think this is the point of this thread. Do some hearing parents treat their deaf children like second class citizens and dont bother to learn how to intelligently communicate with them. I think it happens all the time, like if the deaf child is the youngest. Maybe they think the deaf child is useless so they dont invest as much effort into him or her.
Click to expand...

You came up the same thing I did about the language. Sign language is very necessary for the deaf and hoh. I also think that the refusal to learn to sign might have to do with peer pressure. I think that is a shame because I really value the education.

I don't know about the birth order. I have a Deaf friend who also has a younger Deaf brother. Their parents don't really know the sign language, just a home made version of sign language. I am bit jealous of her because her two younger hearing siblings know ASL very well and ditto on her nieces/nephews.
 
jillio said:
And it still has negative effects for the child. While a parent m ay be jsutified in following the advise of these very mistaken and orally biased professionals simply because they don't know what else to do, it does not do away with the fact that this practice continues to handicap deaf children more than their deafness ever would.
Click to expand...

i agree with you. sometimes parents just dont know anybetter and do what theyre told.

my parents were in denial about my juvenile arthritis. They kept me in the regular gym class. So for an hour each day I was humilated for my lack of athletic ability. The fattest kid in the school could out run me and the rest of the class would just laugh. I tried my hardest but it made little difference.

The experience did more harm than good. I imagine its the same way with deaf children forced into an oral enviroment where they cant realistically keep up. In the end it just creates anger and frustration and an overall feeling of being inferior. I dont know what best.
 
loml said:
Holly - Typing in capitol letters is considering yelling here. :ty:
Click to expand...

I never meant for it to appear that way, I was simply trying to make the words stand out.

Sheesh, this computer etiquette stuff is crap! people take things way to personally...

Boy, i'm gonna regret that in the morning!
 
shel90 said:
there is no such thing as normal or abnormal language. Language is the same regardless of which country it orginated from. I was replied to someone who said some things about language being normal.
Click to expand...
Actually, normal (as in "norm") is based on the person's lifestyle or culture.

For instance, a person who strongly follows Muslim culture would find women walking around without veils as offensive. If we "normal" people saw women walking around with veils, we would likely think that they were abnormal.

So, that's why I asked with... "your"... not what is normal for "everyone".

Here's a great example... I had a friend (an interpreting student) show up for lunch with me and a couple other deafies. When the other deaf students showed up late, the hearing student asked me... "Wow, they're late!" I told her, "That's normal... they always follow DST. (Explained that DST meant 'Deaf Standard Time' and that it was normal for a lot of deaf students.)"
 
Holly said:
I never meant for it to appear that way, I was simply trying to make the words stand out.

Sheesh, this computer etiquette stuff is crap! people take things way to personally...

Boy, i'm gonna regret that in the morning!
Click to expand...
Don't feel bad about it.

Imagine... it took my dad 7 years to figure out what 'LOL' meant. ;)
 
Doug5 said:
i agree with you. sometimes parents just dont know anybetter and do what theyre told.

my parents were in denial about my juvenile arthritis. They kept me in the regular gym class. So for an hour each day I was humilated for my lack of athletic ability. The fattest kid in the school could out run me and the rest of the class would just laugh. I tried my hardest but it made little difference.

The experience did more harm than good. I imagine its the same way with deaf children forced into an oral enviroment where they cant realistically keep up. In the end it just creates anger and frustration and an overall feeling of being inferior. I dont know what best.
Click to expand...

Exactly. We must consider the psychological and social aspects on our children that our decisions are responsible for. I've said it before, and I will continue to say it: Children are more than their ears and their mouths.
 
loml said:
Cloggy - This could be a possibility. The family may see the Deaf community as their child’s fluent, proficient, accurate role model for American Sign Language, and the child’s own family as the fluent, proficient, accurate role model for the family language.
Click to expand...

Oh, so you do recommend a bi-bi environment? However, using CS is not an excuse for not using sign if the child is using sign to communicate, no matter who their models for the language are. CS is still and English based system, therefore, an oral based system. And it still results in the parent's refusal to learn sign for the benefit of their deaf child. It is still making the deaf child soley responsible for adapting to the parent's needs, rather than the other way around.
 
Cloggy said:
Why would you assume I would be lying...??

Let's put it this way. She stopped using sign before we stopped using sign...
Why is it so hard to believe that a deaf child that can hear prefers to speak.? (....and sometimes listen... lol)
Click to expand...

I am oral Deaf. I do not prefer to speak, I prefer to communicate. I am dying for my parents to learn sign, and not so that I can totally turn off my voice but so that I do not have to interpret for Deaf friends. I have asked why and the reply was simple - lazy. True, my mother started learning Signed English but as soon as I had success orally it stopped. That, and the speech therapist saying if you sign his speech will get worse.

What's especially disgusting of the strict oral only approach is that it denies the right of kids just to be kids. Kids should be allowed to freely socialise and study school, and literacy, all of which are important, and speech is just a side benefit...but whom does this most benefit? The parents, of course!

To your response about guaranteeing access in shops, etc. there is a need for the recognition of Deafness as a linguistic minority that deserves accommodation guaranteed by the ADA. Reasonable of course, and quite frankly if a shop owner refuses to write back and forth with a Deaf person who can't speak then their business really isn't GOOD business! (not to mention unethical). One of the things that disgusts me about the USA is its monolingualistic emphasis. America is NOT the only country in the world and more people SHOULD be bi and multi lingual, myself bilingual. If you look at Europeans, it is commonplace for them to be bilingual! Why not Americans? We have come so far in terms of technology and yet we are SO far behind in language education and education as a whole! How many people have to stand up and say that learning is life-long before people believe it? Being bilingual and multilingual is so much beneficial in the business world. Hopefully we will have a President soon someday who not only encourages American bilingualism but is bilingual.

Who benefits from a bilingual America? EVERYONE! That includes ASL as a real language.

(P.S. - Bravo Holly!)
 
iaskedalice09 said:
I am oral Deaf. I do not prefer to speak, I prefer to communicate. I am dying for my parents to learn sign, and not so that I can totally turn off my voice but so that I do not have to interpret for Deaf friends. I have asked why and the reply was simple - lazy. True, my mother started learning Signed English but as soon as I had success orally it stopped. That, and the speech therapist saying if you sign his speech will get worse.

What's especially disgusting of the strict oral only approach is that it denies the right of kids just to be kids. Kids should be allowed to freely socialise and study school, and literacy, all of which are important, and speech is just a side benefit...but whom does this most benefit? The parents, of course!

To your response about guaranteeing access in shops, etc. there is a need for the recognition of Deafness as a linguistic minority that deserves accommodation guaranteed by the ADA. Reasonable of course, and quite frankly if a shop owner refuses to write back and forth with a Deaf person who can't speak then their business really isn't GOOD business! (not to mention unethical). One of the things that disgusts me about the USA is its monolingualistic emphasis. America is NOT the only country in the world and more people SHOULD be bi and multi lingual, myself bilingual. If you look at Europeans, it is commonplace for them to be bilingual! Why not Americans? We have come so far in terms of technology and yet we are SO far behind in language education and education as a whole! How many people have to stand up and say that learning is life-long before people believe it? Being bilingual and multilingual is so much beneficial in the business world. Hopefully we will have a President soon someday who not only encourages American bilingualism but is bilingual.

Who benefits from a bilingual America? EVERYONE! That includes ASL as a real language.

(P.S. - Bravo Holly!)
Click to expand...


I grew up orally too and felt the same as you do! BRAVO!!! Good post!!!

Most hearing parents do not try to put themselves in our shoes and dont really understand what it is like.

Great posting!!!
 
VamPyroX said:
Actually, normal (as in "norm") is based on the person's lifestyle or culture.

For instance, a person who strongly follows Muslim culture would find women walking around without veils as offensive. If we "normal" people saw women walking around with veils, we would likely think that they were abnormal.

So, that's why I asked with... "your"... not what is normal for "everyone".

Here's a great example... I had a friend (an interpreting student) show up for lunch with me and a couple other deafies. When the other deaf students showed up late, the hearing student asked me... "Wow, they're late!" I told her, "That's normal... they always follow DST. (Explained that DST meant 'Deaf Standard Time' and that it was normal for a lot of deaf students.)"
Click to expand...

I meant language itself not the culture. Someone said that spoken language is normal so I was replying to that comment.
 
iaskedalice09 said:
I am oral Deaf. I do not prefer to speak, I prefer to communicate. I am dying for my parents to learn sign, and not so that I can totally turn off my voice but so that I do not have to interpret for Deaf friends. I have asked why and the reply was simple - lazy. True, my mother started learning Signed English but as soon as I had success orally it stopped. That, and the speech therapist saying if you sign his speech will get worse.

What's especially disgusting of the strict oral only approach is that it denies the right of kids just to be kids. Kids should be allowed to freely socialise and study school, and literacy, all of which are important, and speech is just a side benefit...but whom does this most benefit? The parents, of course!

To your response about guaranteeing access in shops, etc. there is a need for the recognition of Deafness as a linguistic minority that deserves accommodation guaranteed by the ADA. Reasonable of course, and quite frankly if a shop owner refuses to write back and forth with a Deaf person who can't speak then their business really isn't GOOD business! (not to mention unethical). One of the things that disgusts me about the USA is its monolingualistic emphasis. America is NOT the only country in the world and more people SHOULD be bi and multi lingual, myself bilingual. If you look at Europeans, it is commonplace for them to be bilingual! Why not Americans? We have come so far in terms of technology and yet we are SO far behind in language education and education as a whole! How many people have to stand up and say that learning is life-long before people believe it? Being bilingual and multilingual is so much beneficial in the business world. Hopefully we will have a President soon someday who not only encourages American bilingualism but is bilingual.

Who benefits from a bilingual America? EVERYONE! That includes ASL as a real language.

(P.S. - Bravo Holly!)
Click to expand...

:gpost::gpost::gpost::

How many times do oral deaf adults have to say the same thing about their childhood experiences before the hearing parents start to understand it? What does it take to get through that wall of denial?
 
jillio said:
:gpost::gpost::gpost::

How many times do oral deaf adults have to say the same thing about their childhood experiences before the hearing parents start to understand it? What does it take to get through that wall of denial?
Click to expand...

NO KIDDING!!!!!
 
jillio said:
:gpost::gpost::gpost::

How many times do oral deaf adults have to say the same thing about their childhood experiences before the hearing parents start to understand it? What does it take to get through that wall of denial?
Click to expand...
The experiences are noted... but those oral deaf adults did not grow up hearing with CI....
No denial.... just a difference reference of experience....
 
Cloggy said:
The experiences are noted... but those oral deaf adults did not grow up hearing with CI....
No denial.... just a difference reference of experience....
Click to expand...

agreed, but what do you do when the child wants to be accepted by a deaf community but isn't because they don't know sign? Isn't it best that parent's do what it takes to help their child fit into both? I mean psychologically speaking, being shunned by people you relate to most because you are not deaf "enough" can be psychologically damaging. Being able to sign and understand the deaf culture a bit can help hearing deaf children fit in.
 
Cloggy said:
The experiences are noted... but those oral deaf adults did not grow up hearing with CI....
No denial.... just a difference reference of experience....
Click to expand...

They are still deaf, cloggy. And those children who grew up without CI but were still considered to be oral successes are still saying the same thing. How exactly do you account for the number of CI implanted children who are still in need of other accommodations other than those provided in an oral only environment? It would be nice if CI had proven to be the panacea that it has been portrayed to be, but unfortunately, that simply isn't the case.
 
Holly said:
agreed, but what do you do when the child wants to be accepted by a deaf community but isn't because they don't know sign? Isn't it best that parent's do what it takes to help their child fit into both? I mean psychologically speaking, being shunned by people you relate to most because you are not deaf "enough" can be psychologically damaging. Being able to sign and understand the deaf culture a bit can help hearing deaf children fit in.
Click to expand...
Absolutely..... when exposed to deaf/Deaf culture, sign should be known, or learned...

But many deaf children not exposed to Deaf culture.... not because of the lack of willing, but due to the non-availability of such a culture.

BTW... "I mean psychologically speaking, being shunned by people you relate to most because you are not deaf "enough" can be psychologically damaging.!" that would be a disgraceful attitude of Deaf society if that would be the case. That would be something for the Deaf culture to solve, not for a child...
I know it happens.... but I believe that any person seeking a connection with Deaf culture should be received with open arms.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top