Let Them Hear Foundation

[shel90]

I know that you function as jilly's ever faithful sychophant agreeing with her no matter how absurd or ridiculous the argument du jour she makes is but that post is over the top even for a sycophant like you.

Here we go again with the insults and bullying.

 

[shel90]

Mmmmm, having a deaf daughter is no personal experience. Sure felt personal to me....

So, you too don't have personal experience with being deaf, no personal experience with HA's and no personal experience with CI....

According to Shel, we have no right to an opinion...

What's up with the lies? Never said that.

 

[shel90]

That's not personal experience - apearently to your definition. it's secondhand experience!

2nd hand experience? Did u forget that I am deaf?

 

[shel90]

*nods* Not a surprise.
Cloggy, I think one thing that you don't understand is that here in the US, you can almost "shop around" to get implanted. In other countries, implantation criteria is very strict. Yes, you can't walk into an implantation center and demand implantation.......BUT, b/c HAs aren't covered and CIs are, there are prolly a significent number of folks who are ambigious canidates, who get implanted, even thou they get significent benifit from HA.
CIs rock.............but there should be uniform guidelines for implantation.....and HAs should be covered TOO!

That's the whole point..if they advocate for deaf people, then they should help HA users. That's why I asked Vallee if they do or not. If the answer was no, then I would be suspicous of LTF's motivations. If the answer is yes, then there is no reason to be suspicous. That's the whole point but I guess my point got all twisted and lies were made up as usual.

 

[Cloggy]

2nd hand experience? Did u forget that I am deaf?

Jillio:
........... And, if you want shel to give credence to what you have observed in your deaf child, why is it you refuse to give credence to what she observes in the numerous deaf children she spends the better part of the day with?

First: I never refused to give credence to that... that's Jillio's way of labeling me.
Second, I know you are deaf. But based on Jillio's definition, "credence to what she observes in the numerous deaf children" is what you observe is second-hand experience....

 

[vallee]

That's the whole point..if they advocate for deaf people, then they should help HA users. That's why I asked Vallee if they do or not. If the answer was no, then I would be suspicous of LTF's motivations. If the answer is yes, then there is no reason to be suspicous. That's the whole point but I guess my point got all twisted and lies were made up as usual.

Directly from the web site.

WHAT HEARING DEVICES CAN LTHF PROVIDE?

LTHF provides consultation for many hearing devices and accessories, including cochlear implants, hearing aids and assistive listening devices.

WHAT SERVICES DOES LTHF OFFER?

LTHF offers clinical services for:

Children with hearing and/ or language deficits
Prospective and current cochlear implant patients
Candidates for auditory and speech/language services
Any person who has been turned down by his insurance company for coverage of hearing-related service or device.

 

[Cloggy]

That's the whole point..if they advocate for deaf people, then they should help HA users. That's why I asked Vallee if they do or not. If the answer was no, then I would be suspicous of LTF's motivations. If the answer is yes, then there is no reason to be suspicous. That's the whole point but I guess my point got all twisted and lies were made up as usual.

From their webside:

WHAT HEARING DEVICES CAN LTHF PROVIDE?

LTHF provides consultation for many hearing devices and accessories, including cochlear implants, hearing aids and assistive listening devices.

Give them a call....

 

[Secretblend]

Wow! Amazing how an innocent question can start a waging war! Perhap, i'll refrain from asking a simple question from now on.

 

[Cloggy]

Well, there's good information between all the petty disagreeing......
... at least you now know that Let Them Hear Foundation handle applications for HA's as well...

btw..
CI companies are often being accused for their monopoly position since CI is being manufactured by only a few companies. However, appearently the same is true for HA's:

(PDF)

Stanford Affordable Hearing Project
Business Report
August 2004

1.2 Industry
Currently, there are dozens of hearing aid manufacturers offering a breadth of products, but it is estimated that six major manufacturers account for 85% of worldwide sales. These incumbents are known as the “Big 6”, and their established positions in the market present a formidable obstacle to potential new entrants. Because many audiologists appreciate and value their current buying relationships with established manufacturers over smaller new manufacturers, success of new entrants into the market is rare. These relationships are fostered by reciprocity between audiologist and manufacturer, the convenience of consistency in such a relationship, and the
trusted reputation of an established manufacturer as a maker of quality aids. Another challenge to new hearing device companies is the Federal Code of Regulations that includes FDA regulations relevant to the hearing aid industry. In order to ensure compliance with all legal provisions, a manufacturer must examine the statutes specific to the state(s) in which distribution
occurs in addition to abiding by the broad yet inhibiting federal laws. Another characteristic of the industry is that good health practice requires a patient to undergo a medical evaluation by a licensed physician before purchasing a hearing aid. However, any fully informed adult over the age of 18 can sign a waiver declining medical evaluation.

So.... I guess there's reason to keep people at their HA as long as possible as well.....

 

[jag]

Fighting for people to get the CI, as you put it, is no doubt not where the profit comes in. Unless, of course they are patients of the clinic, at which time, fighting the insurance companies insures that the clinic is paid. But, if you will read my further posts, you find an more in-depth explanation of how it is all connected to financial profit..

For those of us who actually LIKE to hear this foundation is a great option. I gave my sister info. so she could try contacting them regarding BAHA. It seems that they don't like to approve BAHA's either. (she likes to hear to, she thinks it would be cool to actually understand more of what goes on around her for the first time in years)

And, yes, people that want help are being helped. But not as a result of altruism, as the implication was in the article. If there was not a profit to be made as the result of the help proffered, it certainly would not be made available. It's called advertising in the retail market. Example: a big toy store make a donation to a charitable organization that distributes toys to underpriviledged children at Christmas time. The store recieves a notice in the local news, everyone says. "Aww... aren't they generous?" But the reason they do it is because due to press about their donation, and people's reactions to such, the name of the store is now the first one that people think of when shopping for toys. So, a donation of $500.00 worth of toys results in retail sales based on that donation, of many thousands of dollars in profit from sales. Simple business principle, combined with a simple psychological phenomenon.

Well everyone has to make a living so if they make some money good for them. As far as I'm concerned I really don't give a rip if they make money because someone is influenced to purchase something because of what they did. I DON'T care if LHF earns a profit so long as they are providing a service free or low cost to people appealing their rejections from insurance companies. If people want to hear I'm grateful that LTH helps them accomplish that goal. If they were forcing these people to get Ci's then I'd have a problem with it.

 

[jag]

It sets precedence, vallee. And once precedence is set, it provides them with a foundation for their legal arguments.

And precedence insures easier decisions in their favor. And the more decisions in their favor, the more implants are done. The more implants that are done, the more doctors need to be trained in the procedures. Etc, etc, etc. All of their actions go right back to the same place.

What I don't understand is why you guys keep getting so defensive when facts are pointed out. Youexpect me to concede certain issues, which Ihave done. Yet you refuse to condede the facts that I have presented. Take the emotion out of your arguments.

I thank God for all those people involved in developing the CI and now those setting precedence so people can get the procedure done and hear again.

I obviously have a different perpective then you do.

 

[jag]

Have u personally experienced being deaf and wearing HAs? I rely on my HAs heavily when I am around hearing people. They work for me. Maybe they dont work for some but HAs are still working for a lot of people espeically people with mild hearing losses. Dont they have a right to get their HAs covered?

Shel I wore HA's for years, I never really liked what I got from them. When I got implanted I was only a profound/severe loss and scored to much in the quite booth. But life had gotten to the point where itreally sucked and the new aides I had purchased a year previously also sucked. I really like the CI compared to the aides. The clarity is amazing.

I doubt very much that people who only have mild/mod losses will be getting implants very soon (unless it's the implantable HA's they're working on now). And the reason they wouldn't be getting CI's is because they can do ok with the Ha's. (I think that's to bad that there isn't something better for them but many seem to do quite well with HA's...unlike me. LOL)

I always purchased my aides, and aides for my 2 daughters. We lost some and I'd have to replace them. With the kids my dispenser sold them for 1/2 of what I'd have to pay for them. He did much business with seniors so was limited to what was approved by the gov. and how much they would reimburse for them. So my guess is I got to pay more to make up for the lower cost sales....oh well such is life.

 

[jag]

And they got their knowledge/expertise together and help people that need help.
Excellent!

Yes they have impressive resumes. I'm glad they're working to give us hoh/deaf people the chance to hear when insurance becomes an issue.

 

[jag]

And they provide their services free of charge, not on a sliding fee scale and they do not receive payment from insurance companies. The same cannot be said of LTH. .

so you think that LTHF is recieveing payments from the insurance companies they're appealing against. Wierd. why would the insurance company pay them? Perhaps they'd have to pay the attourney fees from the appeal but that's normal in our system. But the way you stated that I get the impression that they're getting kickbacks from the insurance companies for making the insurance company fork out $$ they didn't want to.

sigh. I'm happy that the LTH foundation is working with the Drs. CI companies and prospective patients to get the implants paid for and give the patients the oppertunity to hear.

 

[jag]

Cloggy, why the need for all the board members and employees with financial management backgrounds if they have no profits to manage? And why all the expertise in CI and oral methods if their goal is to assist all deaf individuals. And why the insistence on using the term "hearing impaired" if they are catering to the deaf population who objects to its use?

SO all deaf/hoh people should think as you do and object to the implants?

Don't think so. we are all individuals and all have different goals in life. Mine was to hear better. Many of the recipeient of CI's that LTH has helped (not myself) are older people who become hoh/deaf and want to hear again, they should not have to give up the gift of being able to hear again because you or others object to what this foundation does.

 

[jag]

*nods* Not a surprise.
Cloggy, I think one thing that you don't understand is that here in the US, you can almost "shop around" to get implanted. In other countries, implantation criteria is very strict. Yes, you can't walk into an implantation center and demand implantation.......BUT, b/c HAs aren't covered and CIs are, there are prolly a significent number of folks who are ambigious canidates, who get implanted, even thou they get significent benifit from HA.
CIs rock.............but there should be uniform guidelines for implantation.....and HAs should be covered TOO!

CI's rock and HA's suck.... for me at least and it shouldn't have been that way. I was 'ambigious' now I hear.

Thankfully the gubermint hasn't gotten it's fingers to deeply into the regulation of the insurance yet. BTW very few insurance companies will approve abigious canidates. Theyd have to have a good reason to give that approval. And very few of us can actually afford to pay 50000+ to have a CI. (it gets hard just o make payments for a year on 3200 worth of worthless HA's)

 

[jag]

Well, there's good information between all the petty disagreeing......
... at least you now know that Let Them Hear Foundation handle applications for HA's as well...

btw..
CI companies are often being accused for their monopoly position since CI is being manufactured by only a few companies. However, appearently the same is true for HA's:


So.... I guess there's reason to keep people at their HA as long as possible as well.....

A quick reply then I'm outta here for awhile, gettingready for Christmas and daughter and her hubby coming.

It may surprise you that HA dispensers also can argue against implants. I got the 'lecture' because my center sent me back to my dispenser to have the Ha's adjusted before a retest to see if it improved the results. (improved a whopping 2% in second testing)

I did see his point, i'd been buying the things from him since my mom purchased the first one when I was 14. According to the testing I should have probably given him more sales for quite a few years. I may have lost my sanity by then tho. I do not regret going from hoh to deaf/hearing at all.

Gotta go now.

Everyone have a wonderful holiday (whichever one you celebrate)

 

[jillio]

And Jillio... why the need to post all the text again....

Mmmm Managing to provide free services and still be able to pay for the organisation... that would require some capable people.

So they don't provide ASL.... is that a problems for you. They are involved in HA's..

Being hearing impaired and wanting to hear would lead someone to the organisation....

I haven't heard any complaints from deaf people.....

Then you haven't been bothering to read.

Of what free services are you speaking?

If you are content with an organization that promotes practices that have been shown to severly limit the language acquisitiom, educational achievement, and pyscho-social development of deaf children, while making a profit, then so be it. I am not. And, once again, are you purposely using a term that deaf indiviuals are offended by to infamel?

And, once again, you didn't not answer my questions.

 

[jillio]

Thank you Rick,

Yes that was Sheri from the article who posted here. I do know why Sheri has not been posting and it is other issues that she has going on now. I do keep in touch with them on my progress.

I am going to just say one - they never asked for money from me.
There you go, vallee. Precedence. And if you think that doesn't carry over into the number of implants done by LTH and their doctors, you are naive.
As I said before I do wish HA were covered in insurance.
And where was this wonderful organization at that time? Were they fighting insurance battles for your HA coverage, or did they just become involved when you decided to go with a CI? That is my whole point.
HA were not an option for me anymore. I also did not know that there were not guildlines getting a CI. I did not learn that until I came on here. I agree there needs to be guidelines. I do know my insurance company gave me strict reasons why I was not approved for one ear. It had to do with db loss and the fact they did not cover bilateral. They have now changed that policy.

Which is a result of precedence. Lessening of strict guidelines regarding implantation is a dangerous thing.

 

[jillio]

First: I never refused to give credence to that... that's Jillio's way of labeling me.
Second, I know you are deaf. But based on Jillio's definition, "credence to what she observes in the numerous deaf children" is what you observe is second-hand experience....

You have refused to give credence to any number of posts that shel has made based on what she sees in her students. And yes, what shel observes inher students is second hand experience. Waht she has experienced herself as a deaf individual is first hand experience. Because she has first hand experience, her perspective on what she observes in her students second hand is increases the validity of her observation.