Is this cheating or lying?

Kaitin

Kaitin

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I'm so upset :(, but I hope this makes sense.

I took my brother to lunch today. I am close to all my brothers and sisters, but not him. His birthday was last week (he's 27) and I want to be close to him, so I asked him to lunch. Big mistake.

He asked about my classes (I'm in college), and we talked about it for a long. After his asking, I told him that my hearing roommate often reads stuff I write and corrects it for spelling, word choice, word order, etc. Nothing big, but she changes "this" to "that" or "a" to 'the" kind of idea. She also makes the sentences sound better when read outloud. She likes doing this - she is going to be an English teacher. I don't ask her every time, but if I am writing a paper, a long email or post, etc and she is there (my computer is in our living room) I will ask her. It's a good way to learn, and we talk about English. I also help her with ASL - she's taking her third ASL class now. We are friends and roommates and help each other.

So I told my brother this. No big deal, right? Well, he said 1) that is cheating when it if for a class and 2) that is lying when it is personal (email, posts). My advisor knows and encourages me to having a hearing person read what I write. When I took the required English classes I had a tutor the department assigned to me and it was ok. My mom is an English professor at this college, and she thinks it is fine as long as no one writes stuff for me.

Do you think this is "cheating" or "lying"?

Our conversation didn't go well. At the end, I was signing and he was still speaking (he knows ASL - my parents made sure all my brothers and sisters learned it and they use it at home). I asked him why he doesn't sign. I shouldn't have asked, but I was upset. He said, "You can understand me fine. Don't be lazy". :mad: Then I gave him a sign everyone knows even without knowing ASL and left.

HoH/deaf and hearing, what do you think?
 
It is neither cheating nor lying. Your brother sounds like a jerk.
 
:ty:, Doh. I just keep seeing him say "don't be lazy" over and over...I can't believe he is my brother. :(
 
Unless your teacher specifically said, "no help allowed" then it is expected that you use a dictionary, computer spell checker, and another person to proof read your work. It's called using resources. The only other exception might be working on a "take home test."

It's even better that your friend explains the reasons for making the changes. If your friend does that, she's really being a tutor for you.

Reading out loud is one way for people to "hear" if their word choices "sound" right. If you can't hear, then you can use another person's "ears" to critique your writing.

Finally, if it really bothers, you speak privately and honestly to your instructor about this. She makes the final decision about it. If your instructor is fine with this arrangement, then it's no one else's business.
 
I dont see any problems with the arrangements, and I would follow Reba's advice. In ANY English course it is HIGHLY encouraged to have someone proof read your paper because they will see mistakes you've overlooked no matter how good your grammar may be, deaf or hearing.

I think your brother needs to go have that 10ft pole removed from his ass. :giggle:
 
I see nothing wrong with someone helping you with your paper.

It's your words, someone else simply helped you make minor corrections.

If someone did your work for you without you doing anything, then that would be cheating and lying.
 
I see nothing wrong with it. It is fairly tough for Deafies to be able to hear it aloud and see if it sounds right. That is why I don't view this as cheating, nor lying.
 
It is not cheating or lying. It is tutoring. Nothing wrong with that.

Does your brother think that hearing students don't ask other hearing students to read over papers and make suggestions?

Tell your brother he doesn't have a clue!
 
:ty::ty:, everyone. I was so upset I just cried after I came home. It was great to see your responses.

I am lucky to have my parents. My boyfriend and I went to their house for dinner, and we talked about my brother. My parents think he needs therapy. He is very angry and maybe? drinking alcohol too much. (He wasn't drinking at lunch.) They will talk to him on Sunday.

He's always been mean, which is weird in my nice family. Whenever he said something nasty to me in the past, he would later say "you misunderstood me", which was a lie. One year when I was very young I switched to some very ugly BTEs, but he was the only one who teased me. I don't understand why he is so angry.

I agree that it would be wrong to have my roommate write for me (she is going to read this, so :h5: to her :)). But she wouldn't do that and I wouldn't ask her to. We talk a lot about ASL and English. She wanted to know the sign for "the" so she could sign something like "I like the dog". She always wants to add a "the"! She also didn't understand about not needing to sign "dog" if the dog was right there and one could point at it. :) We discuss this often, and I say repeatedly "You make it harder. Just point! And no "the"! :giggle:". We talk about English slang etc and there's plenty she understands that I do not. She will be a great English teacher (honest! :)). My mom visits since she works on campus, and we have great discussions about words, English, and ASL. One discussion was when to use "the" or "a" when speaking- my mom says in England they say "I have to go to hospital" where in the US we say "I have to go to the hospital". Neither of them knew why, which was funny. We all learn a lot. And laugh a lot. Growing up with a mother as a English professor and reading all the time, I like and think these things are important.

(My roommate adds that she always reads her writing out loud to hear how it sounds and in her classes about teaching English they encourage students to have other (hearing) students read their writings out loud.)

I feel better. Writing this out made me realize I am lucky. I have a good, fun life. I feel bad for my brother because he is miserable and he gives this misery to others. I hope he goes to therapy.

:ty:
 
Kaitin said:
:ty::ty:, everyone. I was so upset I just cried after I came home. It was great to see your responses.

I am lucky to have my parents. My boyfriend and I went to their house for dinner, and we talked about my brother. My parents think he needs therapy. He is very angry and maybe? drinking alcohol too much. (He wasn't drinking at lunch.) They will talk to him on Sunday.

He's always been mean, which is weird in my nice family. Whenever he said something nasty to me in the past, he would later say "you misunderstood me", which was a lie. One year when I was very young I switched to some very ugly BTEs, but he was the only one who teased me. I don't understand why he is so angry.

I agree that it would be wrong to have my roommate write for me (she is going to read this, so :h5: to her :)). But she wouldn't do that and I wouldn't ask her to. We talk a lot about ASL and English. She wanted to know the sign for "the" so she could sign something like "I like the dog". She always wants to add a "the"! She also didn't understand about not needing to sign "dog" if the dog was right there and one could point at it. :) We discuss this often, and I say repeatedly "You make it harder. Just point! And no "the"! :giggle:". We talk about English slang etc and there's plenty she understands that I do not. She will be a great English teacher (honest! :)). My mom visits since she works on campus, and we have great discussions about words, English, and ASL. One discussion was when to use "the" or "a" when speaking- my mom says in England they say "I have to go to hospital" where in the US we say "I have to go to the hospital". Neither of them knew why, which was funny. We all learn a lot. And laugh a lot. Growing up with a mother as a English professor and reading all the time, I like and think these things are important.

(My roommate adds that she always reads her writing out loud to hear how it sounds and in her classes about teaching English they encourage students to have other (hearing) students read their writings out loud.)

I feel better. Writing this out made me realize I am lucky. I have a good, fun life. I feel bad for my brother because he is miserable and he gives this misery to others. I hope he goes to therapy.

:ty:
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Glad you are feeling better. The thing about people who carry all that anger around inside is that they try to spead it all over everyone else. I hope he gets therapy, as well, for his own sake.
 
Reba said:
Reading out loud is one way for people to "hear" if their word choices "sound" right. If you can't hear, then you can use another person's "ears" to critique your writing.
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Nods. It's also useful for writing poetry. I have a personal rule to never use words I don't know how to pronounce in poetry or prose because it may clash badly with the other words. I made this rule when I learned that the name Xavier is NOT pronounced Ax-fair. When I was reading Joyce C. Oates' Bellefluer years ago, I realized that the way I pronounced Xavier clashed badly with her prose in that book so I looked up the pronunciation. Turns out that it's pronounced zā-vē-ər.

Finally, if it really bothers, you speak privately and honestly to your instructor about this. She makes the final decision about it. If your instructor is fine with this arrangement, then it's no one else's business.
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Yes, that would be good idea. I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're doing but it's good idea to check.
 
Do you think this is "cheating" or "lying"?

HoH/deaf and hearing, what do you think?
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Kaitin, I proof read my HOH hubs writings all the time. It is not cheating or lying as long as the person reading and critiquing is not changing your ideas and concepts.
On the reverse - whenever I have a presentation to deliver, in ASL, my hubs critiques it for accuracy of syntax, etc.

It sounds like your brother has issues, not you.
 
deafskeptic said:
Nods. It's also useful for writing poetry. I have a personal rule to never use words I don't know how to pronounce in poetry or prose because it may clash badly with the other words. I made this rule when I learned that the name Xavier is NOT pronounced Ax-fair. When I was reading Joyce C. Oates' Bellefluer years ago, I realized that the way I pronounced Xavier clashed badly with her prose in that book so I looked up the pronunciation. Turns out that it's pronounced zā-vē-ər.
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Deafskeptic: I am so impressed you write poetry! I love to read, but I don't understand poetry. I understand the words, of course, but I say I don't understand it because I would read a poem and wonder why it is a poem if it looks like an essay or other writing? why do some poems interrupt the sentence
like this?
I can understand that for emphasis - "this
is
important" -
but that isn't always the truth. My roommate loves poetry and shows me "beautiful" poetry, and I think ":ty: - :dunno2:". I'm not asking you, Deafskeptic, or arguing against poetry, I just am impressed that you write them. Do you ever post your poems? Is there a poem you would suggest to read?

Ok, offtopic! :D
 
Jillio and ASLGAL: :ty: (I wish this smile didn't have a grin!). I agree: my brother needs help. I hope my parents can have a good conversation with him and he understands they are helpful. He needs therapy. I don't understand why he is so mean. He is mean to my family and not just me, but he seems to work at being nasty with me. I don't say I'm finished with him because he is my brother, but I am avoiding him now. And no more birthday lunch! :D
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with this. It would be like if you used Microsoft Word and use the spell and grammer checkers. Pretty much common practice these days. I use those tools all of the time.
 
jillio said:
Glad you are feeling better. The thing about people who carry all that anger around inside is that they try to spead it all over everyone else. I hope he gets therapy, as well, for his own sake.
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Thats why people say "Misery loves company"
 
Proofreading is not cheating because it doesn't change what you are saying; it also doesn't hurt to keep your professor up to stuff because your honest intent is obvious.
 
Tousi said:
Proofreading is not cheating because it doesn't change what you are saying; it also doesn't hurt to keep your professor up to stuff because your honest intent is obvious.
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Many professors actually reccommend that a student have a classmate, friend, or tutor read their paper prior to turning it in. Likewise, many professors offer to review first drafts and offer suggestions regarding grammar, syntax, and format, thus giving the student the chance to revise.

JMO, this is called "learning".
 
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