Are hearing people supposed to be on this forum?

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KatieTheActivist

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I am hearing but I am interested in deaf culture and I am learning ASL. In introductions I introduced myself and asked whether it was appropriate for me to post. The answers were kind of confusing, and I felt like the answer was no.

What is the answer?
 
The answer is yes, if they are interested in deaf culture, customs, as well as practicing sign language.

Don't worry, this isn't Gallaudet forum at all or their hearing-culture-bashing nonsense. :)
 
Lukin said:
The answer is yes, if they are interested in deaf culture, customs, as well as practicing sign language.

Don't worry, this isn't Gallaudet forum at all or their hearing-culture-bashing nonsense. :)
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:squint: Did you know gallaudet have hearing kiddos students there??
 
Lukin said:
The answer is yes, if they are interested in deaf culture, customs, as well as practicing sign language.

Don't worry, this isn't Gallaudet forum at all or their hearing-culture-bashing nonsense. :)
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erm, what do they bash about hearing culture? they are at the mercy of hearing culture...gally is all about banging on about deaf culture, to me, they havent got a faintest clue of what IS hearing culture, its the first time anyone said this (you)...did you have any experience there? (I dont', i did't, im in a hearing university and i am aiming to explore ideas how might deaf people should be talking /teaching about WHAT IS Hearing culture , you see, my idea is that you can't , can not possible rant about Deaf culture without actually understanding heairing culture (i dont mean -ability to hear- i mean what the various views they have 'in the wider world' and thats the key if we truely understand that, THEN we can learn to be Bi-cultural, not bilingual (which is NOT enough)...idont fuckn care what linguist says, they havent done shit to help us d/Deaf. not one bit...
just my 2 cents
lukin, in mot attacking you, I'm more curious and pleased to find just one other person (besides myself) who actually says hearing-culture [bashing] and i Like hearing culture, and i can also criticise it too! equally.
 
Grummer said:
erm, what do they bash about hearing culture? they are at the mercy of hearing culture...gally is all about banging on about deaf culture, to me, they havent got a faintest clue of what IS hearing culture, its the first time anyone said this (you)...did you have any experience there? (I dont', i did't, im in a hearing university and i am aiming to explore ideas how might deaf people should be talking /teaching about WHAT IS Hearing culture , you see, my idea is that you can't , can not possible rant about Deaf culture without actually understanding heairing culture (i dont mean -ability to hear- i mean what the various views they have 'in the wider world' and thats the key if we truely understand that, THEN we can learn to be Bi-cultural, not bilingual (which is NOT enough)...idont fuckn care what linguist says, they havent done shit to help us d/Deaf. not one bit...
just my 2 cents
lukin, in mot attacking you, I'm more curious and pleased to find just one other person (besides myself) who actually says hearing-culture [bashing] and i Like hearing culture, and i can also criticise it too! equally.
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I assure you that lukin isn't upset with your post. :ugh3: so Lukin, anyway ??
 
...in addition,...those are in hearing culture or were, or Deaf who 'understands' hearing cutlrue actually, (more so on the ones actually are Deaf but comes across as a know-it-all...are actually audist, they ARE displaying superiority of their knowledge of hearing-culture knowledge, but NOT in the sense as would an understanding of hearing culture viewed as a 'object of observation - tangible or not, like the same way was you'd eb reading french cultures 300 years ago, in a sense ' observing fro the outside, is quire different from bragging about 'what you know more about the 'hearing world' (sic) ii get tired/bored of these peope real quick.

dont get me wrong i Do like hearing culture, what they have to offer as entertainment, various knowledges understanding, etc, but i Do feel hearing people STILL Dont want to share.... and film stereotypes of Deaf are still Really BORING
 
KatieTheActivist said:
I am hearing but I am interested in deaf culture and I am learning ASL. In introductions I introduced myself and asked whether it was appropriate for me to post. The answers were kind of confusing, and I felt like the answer was no.

What is the answer?
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It depends upon whom you ask.

But it is certainly advertised that hearing people can join.
 
Agreed. I can criticize both cultures either way and their views of each other. I believe that both cultures should co-exist, and deaf community is largely due to the dependence on the existence of wider hearing one.

But yeah... Stereotypes... Those who are sympathetic to helping us, when we dont really want that. Movies... hmm, Children of Lesser God movie brings the mind. It was OKAY...
 
Lukin said:
Agreed. I can criticize both cultures either way and their views of each other. I believe that both cultures should co-exist, and deaf community is largely due to the dependence on the existence of wider hearing one.

But yeah... Stereotypes... Those who are sympathetic to helping us, when we dont really want that. Movies... hmm, Children of Lesser God movie brings the mind. It was OKAY...
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;) That is understandable.
 
Of course, you can be here. There are other members here who are hearing as well. As long as you respect forum rules, you'll be fine here. :thumb:
 
Lukin said:
The answer is yes, if they are interested in deaf culture, customs, as well as practicing sign language.

Don't worry, this isn't Gallaudet forum at all or their hearing-culture-bashing nonsense. :)
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I'm surprised that they still bash hearies, considering that William Stokoe founded ASL as a formal language. And yes, this has benefited Deaf culture... at least Deaf people can now sign in public with no shame. Also, thanks to him, ASL can now be officially taught in schools, allowing Deaf culture to be transmitted. I hope to see the day when Deaf schools become transformed into ASL schools, so that anyone who uses ASL can go there (CODA, people with disabilities, etc.). I would like to see ASL users to become a true cultural community that anyone can join and choose to stay in for the rest of their lives, whether actually hearing or not, just like anyone can join a culture and speak one language for the rest of their lives without having to use another language (i.e. the hearing language).

Also, I'm glad that hearing people can join. I would like to become an active participant in the Deaf culture, because many of the values of this community coincide with mine. However, this will probably not be possible until I learn ASL well enough to be able to participate in the community fully. Unfortunately, I heard that there is stigma among Deaf people toward members of the hearing community. This only segregates and creates hatred, in my opinion and from my experience. It doesn't help either Deaf or hearing communities, in the long run.
 
Anyone can learn and experience Deaf Culture just as anyone can learn and experience any culture, but to be, "in" Deaf Culture you have to have the belief that not hearing is natural and that you don't want to hear. And, you have to have the physical condition of not being able to hear. Many have the condition, but do not have the belief.

So, there is no reason you can't learn and experience Deaf Culture just because some people on a web site tell you that you can't, you can. And, there is no reason you can't be friends with people in Deaf Culture even though some might tell you that you can't, you can.

While ASL is the language of Deaf Culture it is not the culture itself. What you describe, "ASL users to become a true cultural community that anyone can join and choose to stay in for the rest of their lives" already exist and is were the rest of the people who do not have the belief of Deaf Culture reside. It is certainly not as well structured as Deaf Culture because that set of people don't try to be in a group, instead it adapts to other groups, but still speak the language.

If you can find a way to bring more deaf/HoH together in a more structural way, I'm all for it. However, since these people don't see a need to form a group, this is an up hill battle.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Anyone can learn and experience Deaf Culture just as anyone can learn and experience any culture, but to be, "in" Deaf Culture you have to have the belief that not hearing is natural and that you don't want to hear. And, you have to have the physical condition of not being able to hear. Many have the condition, but do not have the belief.

So, there is no reason you can't learn and experience Deaf Culture just because some people on a web site tell you that you can't, you can. And, there is no reason you can't be friends with people in Deaf Culture even though some might tell you that you can't, you can.
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You definitely can, but it's very difficult to actually break into Deaf culture if you are a hearie. While the bi-bi education approach in Deaf schools is awesome, including its cultural education component, it's only accessible to those who are actually Deaf. In terms of Gallaudet enrolment, if you are hearing, you need to pass an ASL proficiency test. Unless you have been lucky enough to have been surrounded by Deaf people for a significant portion of your life, that is difficult to do. So there are limited paths for hearing people who actually want to experience the Deaf community.

Also, I've heard from another source that hearing people who work hard to make positive contributions to the ASL community are considered to be part of the Deaf culture.

While ASL is the language of Deaf Culture it is not the culture itself. What you describe, "ASL users to become a true cultural community that anyone can join and choose to stay in for the rest of their lives" already exist and is were the rest of the people who do not have the belief of Deaf Culture reside. It is certainly not as well structured as Deaf Culture because that set of people don't try to be in a group, instead it adapts to other groups, but still speak the language.
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Okay, it was 5 in the morning and I got into a weird compulsive episode, so maybe this wasn't the best phrasing. The Deaf culture does contain all of the official facets of a culture, yes. I think you're right, the notion of it being less structured is what I've been trying to convey. Audism is probably the largest cause of this instability, seeing that many Deaf people raised in hearing families are not even given the information about the culture by audiologists, speech paths, etc., hence the increased mainstreaming and decrease in students attending schools for the Deaf. I really push for schools instructing in ASL offering Deaf cultural education that would be open for everybody, including hearing people, because that would really help preserve Deaf culture, in my opinion. Just like most language courses I have taken in the past taught culture alongside the language.

Yes, while I realize that ASL is not the culture itself, it is a significant part of it and is pretty much required in order to be able to immerse yourself in the culture fully (just like with any other cultural group). My point was about cultural transmission - the language and the culture are always intertwined.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Anyone can learn and experience Deaf Culture just as anyone can learn and experience any culture, but to be, "in" Deaf Culture you have to have the belief that not hearing is natural and that you don't want to hear. And, you have to have the physical condition of not being able to hear. Many have the condition, but do not have the belief.
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This reminded me of H. G. Wells' "Country of the Blind". It's on the web, it's a good read. Substitute "blind" for "deaf" and you have the exact culture described in the story.
 
I don't feel that alldeaf is accomodating to hearing people learning ASL.

The community is really welcoming for hard of hearing to full on deaf people and their parents and friends, but for someone like me who is hearing and has no Deaf ties, nothing about ASL is intuitive to me, and I don't feel like this community is meant for people like me.

I understand it as being the difference between a forum that Spanish speakers use VS a forum that English speakers who want to learn Spanish use.

You can try to learn Spanish in the first forum, but for the most part, the forum users are just interested in sharing in Spanish, not teaching Spanish.

You can also try to have fun as a spanish speaker at the second forum, but eventually you'll get bored with teaching newbs how to speak spanish and find somewhere else to share thoughts in Spanish.


I feel that alldeaf is more for deaf people and Deaf allies, but it is not meant for hearing who want to learn ASL despite having no hearing loss or Deaf connection.

Alldeaf needs to make a place where ASL beginners can feel safe to ask questions. Not one thread (not the "looking for partners!" thread again) but a whole forum subsection. Not all of us are looking for partners. Sometimes we just want to ask questions or ask other hearing people what strategy they are using to learn ASL. Not all of us can learn by intuition/organic methods/full-on immersion.


This is a very complicated idea I've had bothering me for a while. I wish I could explain more because I think presenting this idea in this simple manner is misleading, but I haven't quite figured it out yet.
 
As I understand it, this is not a teaching site so much as a site for exchanging ideas.

Having said that, nobody stops anyone from asking about ASL or any other subject here. So, you can learn things in an unstructured way.

If you want a site that practices and teaches ASL, your best bet would be an online course. You can also look for ASL meetup groups to practice what you learn from an online course. The truth is you can't learn a language from a book because it is not static. You can learn the mechanics, but without implementation it doesn't mean much, kind of like learning what a hammer does and never building anything with it.

Nothing about this site is meant to be comprehensive.

All of the above things do not pertain to anyone's hearing ability.
 
I'm not trying to learn ASL only from a book, but there's no place on this forum where I can ask my really newbie questions. I don't feel welcome to ask really simple questions here because I think the expectation is that simple questions should be posted in one thread, which is practically unnavigable sans the search function of the forum.

Also, even if one thread is steadfast considered sufficient, the problem with being unable to locate other hearing people to network and study with (not study partner!) is still an issue. Hearing people should have some way to help each other out to learn, and there should be a place where activities geared towards learners of ASL can be held, like guess-the-word, fingerspell contests, somewhere to practice sentence building, pattern-play, collections of useful/fun ASL youtube videos etc.

As much as Deaf do not like hearing students teaching hearing students, I don't think ignoring the growing population of hearing people who want to learn ASL despite having no Deaf ties is wise for the growth of ASL.
The forum should take a proactive stance in encouraging hearing people to learn ASL even if they have no Deaf ties. this would also allow the forums to "control" what is acceptable ASL acquisition as a second language and what is not (regular forum members can speak up against newbies making fingerspell guides, etc. )

I would rather see some hearing people use some form of bastardized ASL than only deaf people using perfect ASL.



OR: maybe I am right in assuming that this forum is really only meant for persons born deaf, have hearing loss, or are friends or family of someone who is; to network.
 
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