So, will the deaf culture be there?

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I believe the current count is half a million people use ASL, and I believe that includes CODAs. There is way more people with hearing loss than that, even excluding age related loss.
 
shel90 said:
Oh really?

Can you explain why my brother got treated inferior than me all because he has no speech skills but I do?
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It's not that your brother gets treated inferiorly, there's just that communication barrier. Hearing people don't do it on purpose or cause "they're bad". Again, it's just that communication barrier.

For instance, who do you think would be able to communicate better with the majority who speak English, those that only speak Spanish or those speak Spanish AND English.

Some of it is just logistics and demographics.
 
deafdyke said:
and faire joure, I think you're missing something. Even among oral sucesses, it is VERY common for them to learn ASL as a second language! I actually have seen parents say that they're NOT against ASL....they just want their kids to have decent oral skills...and you know I think with the fact that this generation of parents may have been actually exposed to REAL LIVE dhh kids, that they might be more open to ASL.
It does seem like a lot of parents who chose oral only are doing so b/c they know NOTHING about the honest to god day to day lives of dhh people.
Matter of fact 20% of NTID students start out not knowing ASL!!!!
I think this batch of kids is going to be a mix. Yes, some kids will be "almost hearing"
and really thrive in the mainstream. But many others will deal with the exact same stuff that past generations of hoh kids have and do.
I do think that non orally skilled Deaf culture IS endangered. That population is going to be very small in the future. BUT, oral sucesses just means that Deaf culture will be more hoh friendly.
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I'll say that SEE rather than ASL is more likely to be the oral deaf's 2nd language, that is if they have a 2nd language to begin with. Some don't and seem happy with it.
 
AlleyCat said:
That's ridiculous. Because they're "caught up in their own needs, wants and problems," it gives them the "okay" to mock deaf people's speech, signing and communication skills? I think not.
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Just cause some parents are choosing the oral, auditory and CI route for their child, doesn't mean they are "mocking the deaf" in general. They have the right to choose the route they want for their child.

If we always go by "raising a child" according to the way things were "20 or 30 or 40" years ago within any sub culture, it would make a very stifling society.

AlleyCat said:
You cannot equate the two. We don't expect those physically challenged to miraculously overcome their challenges by expecting them to walk if they can't, or use an arm if they don't have one. The deaf people don't mock them or treat them "like crap" "because we're too caught up in our own lives." We don't mock them because we just don't.
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And if one that uses the wheelchair wants to obtain some therapy so he or she could try to get up to walk, you don't think others that also uses the wheelchair will tell that person "Sit down! Don't try to get up to walk! You must continue to use the wheelchair...!" No?
 
HHIssues said:
And if one that uses the wheelchair wants to obtain some therapy so he or she could try to get up to walk, you don't think others that also uses the wheelchair will tell that person "Sit down! Don't try to get up to walk! You must continue to use the wheelchair...!" No?
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Good grief, where did we say "ASL only"
 
deafdyke said:
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faire joure, Yes, I have met CI kids who are doing well. They are still pretty much functionally hoh. I think what you're missing is that booth performance really doesn't translate well in the real world. Heck, even LATE DEAFENED people complain that they don't have access to the hearing world. (although with them they have access to the hearing impaired world, rather then the deaf world, since they don't identify with being strongly visual) That should tell you something!! A lot of times a dhh person's speech perception has more to do with how well a hearing person speaks. It's hard to explain exactly......but hearing people who are regularly exposed to dhh folks tend to subconsciously modify their speech, to make it easier for the dhh person to understand.
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That is very true, in face one of the library tipsheet explained this:

· Use short sentences.
· Repeat, rephrase, or spell words if not understood. For example, a patron
may not hear the word “quarter” but they may hear “twenty-five cents.”
· Use gestures, write, or type back and forth on a computer using a program
like Word, to add clarity to communication


http://www.ala.org/ala/mgrps/divs/a...ytipsheets/tipsheets/10 Deaf or hard ofhe.pdf
 
HHIssues said:
I'll say that SEE rather than ASL is more likely to be the oral deaf's 2nd language, that is if they have a 2nd language to begin with. Some don't and seem happy with it.
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i don't know, most Oral deaf here are learning ASL.. sure they struggle and usually put it in English order, but they want to learn ASL. I'm oral only deaf and I never learned SEE or ASL or PSE. in fact, the only visual cue I had was written English and that what I depended on all my life.

Also, SEE is not a 2nd language anymore than morse code is.
 
HHIssues said:
And if one that uses the wheelchair wants to obtain some therapy so he or she could try to get up to walk, you don't think others that also uses the wheelchair will tell that person "Sit down! Don't try to get up to walk! You must continue to use the wheelchair...!" No?
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My daughter's bi-bi school FORBID auditory training. They also forbid using spoken language in the school (in any situation besides pull out speech therapy). So, yes, they were similar to this analogy...
 
HHIssues said:
I'll say that SEE rather than ASL is more likely to be the oral deaf's 2nd language, that is if they have a 2nd language to begin with. Some don't and seem happy with it.
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SEE a language? where's that roflcopter picture??
 
HHIssues said:
It's not that your brother gets treated inferiorly, there's just that communication barrier. Hearing people don't do it on purpose or cause "they're bad". Again, it's just that communication barrier.

For instance, who do you think would be able to communicate better with the majority who speak English, those that only speak Spanish or those speak Spanish AND English.

Some of it is just logistics and demographics.
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Were you there when my brother got called dumb or retarded? Or when people blew him off?

I guess I was wrong all this time.
 
HHIssues said:
I'll say that SEE rather than ASL is more likely to be the oral deaf's 2nd language, that is if they have a 2nd language to begin with. Some don't and seem happy with it.
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SEE is not a language.
 
HHIssues said:
Just cause some parents are choosing the oral, auditory and CI route for their child, doesn't mean they are "mocking the deaf" in general. They have the right to choose the route they want for their child.

If we always go by "raising a child" according to the way things were "20 or 30 or 40" years ago within any sub culture, it would make a very stifling society.


And if one that uses the wheelchair wants to obtain some therapy so he or she could try to get up to walk, you don't think others that also uses the wheelchair will tell that person "Sit down! Don't try to get up to walk! You must continue to use the wheelchair...!" No?
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And nobody is saying no that a deaf child should be exposed to spoken English. It is those who are saying NO to a deaf child having the opportunity to be exposed to ASL and the Deaf community.

All of us support the use of both.

You and your cohorts support one or the other.

What's wrong with having both?
 
Shel, it is clear that this guy isn't here to learn anything so I dunno why ya bother....
 
Actually fairejoure, that is b/c most dhh people are late deafened. Not nessarily age related losses but only about 10% of hearing losses are pediatric. Not all dhh as kids people use Sign, yes. But many do, and many pick it up as an additional tool. Were you aware that it's actually very common at AG BELL conferences to see 'terps being used?!?!
And a lot of hoh kids although they may not learn it in school, may pick it up later. Unfortunatly the attitude among "experts" is that hoh kids don't "need" SIgn or Deaf Ed. There ARE however, hoh kids who attend Deaf Schools or Deaf programs or use Sign. (some DODA familes include hoh kids you know)
HHIssues, what you're missing is that we're suggesting a FULL TOOLBOX approach! We are NOT saying that dhh kids shouldn't have the right to develop speech skills....and even most DODAs wear hearing aids and get speech training!
 
deafdyke said:
Actually fairejoure, that is b/c most dhh people are late deafened. Not nessarily age related losses but only about 10% of hearing losses are pediatric. Not all dhh as kids people use Sign, yes. But many do, and many pick it up as an additional tool. Were you aware that it's actually very common at AG BELL conferences to see 'terps being used?!?!
And a lot of hoh kids although they may not learn it in school, may pick it up later. Unfortunatly the attitude among "experts" is that hoh kids don't "need" SIgn or Deaf Ed. There ARE however, hoh kids who attend Deaf Schools or Deaf programs or use Sign. (some DODA familes include hoh kids you know)
HHIssues, what you're missing is that we're suggesting a FULL TOOLBOX approach! We are NOT saying that dhh kids shouldn't have the right to develop speech skills....and even most DODAs wear hearing aids and get speech training!
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None of what you have said is true in my experience. I have been to several AG Bell conferences and while they had CART, they did not have interpreters.

Also, in my experience I know ZERO Deaf of Deaf kids in real life who wear hearing devices. I know the tide is starting to change, but in my area, it just doesn't happen.

Also, no one cares to answer HOW you emphasis both ASL and spoken language equally. How do you teach listening AND have a voice off ASL classroom? How do you provide fluent spoken language immersion to children with CI's and make sure an unamplified child isn't left out?
 
Tousi said:
Shel, it is clear that this guy isn't here to learn anything so I dunno why ya bother....
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And you're here to learn something...?

Perhaps, it's all just an one way street with you...?

So anytime someone doesn't agree with your views, he or she "doesn't want to learn anything"?

And that they are only learning something only if they start agreeing with your views right...? :roll:
 
shel90 said:
Ok..thanks.
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I personally feel that we're having a constructive discussion. I see that you're intelligent with good language skills, etc.

And I also see that Tousi is making a good contribution to this thread... yeah right? :roll:
 
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