Psycho-social issues

dreama said:
It's a missconception that a signing deaf person can't be orally successful too. I know some people who are successful at both, and others who are successful at neither.
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A person can do both (I'm a living example of this fact...I speak fine and sign fluent ASL as well as Signed English)...however many oral programs do not permit signing because they fear it will hinder oral skills. Their justification is that they have found that in general deaf children tend to find signing much more easier (well, duh!!) and will perfer to sign rather than speak...so if you take away the signing, then they will be forced to rely on their speech and residual hearing.
 
rockdrummer said:
thanks and pardon my ignorance but I am not sure that answers my questions on how the numbers stack up. Again, not to minimise or discredit any of this but it's my understanding that psychosocial issues may arise in children for many reasons from bedwetting to daycare to chronic illness to bad parents and the list goes on and on. I don't believe for one second that some deaf kids brought up and educated under certian methods and systems don't have psychosocial issues. The evidence is clear. I am just not convinced that every child under the same circumstances will have the same results. I would imagine there are other variables to consider as to what the outcome for a given child would be.
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Not every child, true. But a good number of them do.

My parents could have SWORE that I was a happy go-lucky child. I was raised strictly orally - not even allowed to have any visual cues such as closed-captioned TV shows because it might force me not to read lips (RME here because we all know the actors/actresses do not always show their faces on the screen and there are a lot of narrating). In high school I was on the honor roll and considered to be one of the popular kids.

I wanted to PLEASE my parents. I knew how to do the act. I did what was expected.

But HOW did I manage to keep up a 3.8-4.0 GPA without an interpreter? I spent literally HOURS and HOURs trying to guess what the hell the teacher was talking about in Chapter 4 of my textbook. I would go over and beyond what was expected from students in my class just to keep my head over the water.

I would fake laugh to look like I was part of the group. I knew how to blend in any group (I literally would hang out with the pot heads one day and then jump to hang out with the preppies the next day...even teachers I still talk with today would comment how amazing it was that I was able to be friends with literally anyone during high school).

And I didn't know what the hell was going on.

I don't need the research findings (though I have stacks and stacks of them in boxes) to show what I already know from personal experience as a "successful" (sarcastic) oralist. A child in this environment cannot possible avoid the adverse psychological effects. Some may handle it better than others. Some may not handle it so well. One mother I know will tell you just that. Her deaf son who was raised as an oralist finally killed himself. He wrote a letter (which I have a copy of) to his mother explaining that he was tired of wearing the mask of trying to fit in with her world. He said in his letter...why couldn't I just be deaf?
 
Wow, jillio! What a great thread! I have been reading through it and I see myself in it. I am 57 years old and I suppose one can call me a member of the lost deaf generation, lol. As an Air Force brat with a large family, I was mainstreamed since early childhood and we rarely stayed in one state more than two years before moving. There were no interpreters, no captioning on television, no tdd's, ad nauseum. Just a lot of loneliness. However, today my friends do not call me crazy, just eccentric, lol. Anyway, thanks for the thread. I bookmarked it for further study! :)
 
deafbajagal said:
Not every child, true. But a good number of them do.

My parents could have SWORE that I was a happy go-lucky child. I was raised strictly orally - not even allowed to have any visual cues such as closed-captioned TV shows because it might force me not to read lips (RME here because we all know the actors/actresses do not always show their faces on the screen and there are a lot of narrating). In high school I was on the honor roll and considered to be one of the popular kids.

I wanted to PLEASE my parents. I knew how to do the act. I did what was expected.

But HOW did I manage to keep up a 3.8-4.0 GPA without an interpreter? I spent literally HOURS and HOURs trying to guess what the hell the teacher was talking about in Chapter 4 of my textbook. I would go over and beyond what was expected from students in my class just to keep my head over the water.

I would fake laugh to look like I was part of the group. I knew how to blend in any group (I literally would hang out with the pot heads one day and then jump to hang out with the preppies the next day...even teachers I still talk with today would comment how amazing it was that I was able to be friends with literally anyone during high school).

And I didn't know what the hell was going on.

I don't need the research findings (though I have stacks and stacks of them in boxes) to show what I already know from personal experience as a "successful" (sarcastic) oralist. A child in this environment cannot possible avoid the adverse psychological effects. Some may handle it better than others. Some may not handle it so well. One mother I know will tell you just that. Her deaf son who was raised as an oralist finally killed himself. He wrote a letter (which I have a copy of) to his mother explaining that he was tired of wearing the mask of trying to fit in with her world. He said in his letter...why couldn't I just be deaf?
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Wow.... :shock:

Now I see why you're very anti-oralism. I think I have a different idea of what happens to a child raised in oralism than some people here....

Plus, damn! I can't imagine my life without CC!!!! I remember Nickelodeon back in the day had no CC. I was mad and asked my mom to help me write a letter to ask them to add CC. A few months later, it started appearing for some shows! Needless to say I was VERY happy! Of course, I doubt it had anything to do with the letter, but at the time, I was very young and naive, so I thought I made a huge difference!
 
What did you mean by having "a different idea of what happens to a child raised in oralism..." ?
 
deafbajagal said:
A person can do both (I'm a living example of this fact...I speak fine and sign fluent ASL as well as Signed English)...however many oral programs do not permit signing because they fear it will hinder oral skills. Their justification is that they have found that in general deaf children tend to find signing much more easier (well, duh!!) and will perfer to sign rather than speak...so if you take away the signing, then they will be forced to rely on their speech and residual hearing.
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My son, like you, is an example of an ASL/English bilingual with excellent oral skills. I saw absolutely no reason to restrict one mode of communication in favor of another. It simply does not make sense to me. Bilingualism increases opportunity and opens communication. If increased opportunity is what parents are after, why restrict a child to monolingualism, and especially to monolingualism that relies on their weakest sense?
 
Beowulf said:
Wow, jillio! What a great thread! I have been reading through it and I see myself in it. I am 57 years old and I suppose one can call me a member of the lost deaf generation, lol. As an Air Force brat with a large family, I was mainstreamed since early childhood and we rarely stayed in one state more than two years before moving. There were no interpreters, no captioning on television, no tdd's, ad nauseum. Just a lot of loneliness. However, today my friends do not call me crazy, just eccentric, lol. Anyway, thanks for the thread. I bookmarked it for further study! :)
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I'm very glad you found it interesting, Beowulf. But you know, it is that "lost generation" that you belong to that taught me so much in regard to my son's needs. By sharing with me what was missing in their own upbringing, they allowed me the opportunity to avoid the same mistakes with my son. I will be forever grateful for their generosity. They are also the people who provided my son with language models for fluent ASL, and oh, so patiently taught me the language. I consider that generation to be anything but lost. You, and others like you have so much to offer parents of newly diagnosed children.
 
deafbajagal said:
Not every child, true. But a good number of them do.

My parents could have SWORE that I was a happy go-lucky child. I was raised strictly orally - not even allowed to have any visual cues such as closed-captioned TV shows because it might force me not to read lips (RME here because we all know the actors/actresses do not always show their faces on the screen and there are a lot of narrating). In high school I was on the honor roll and considered to be one of the popular kids.

I wanted to PLEASE my parents. I knew how to do the act. I did what was expected.
But HOW did I manage to keep up a 3.8-4.0 GPA without an interpreter? I spent literally HOURS and HOURs trying to guess what the hell the teacher was talking about in Chapter 4 of my textbook. I would go over and beyond what was expected from students in my class just to keep my head over the water.

I would fake laugh to look like I was part of the group. I knew how to blend in any group (I literally would hang out with the pot heads one day and then jump to hang out with the preppies the next day...even teachers I still talk with today would comment how amazing it was that I was able to be friends with literally anyone during high school).

And I didn't know what the hell was going on.

I don't need the research findings (though I have stacks and stacks of them in boxes) to show what I already know from personal experience as a "successful" (sarcastic) oralist. A child in this environment cannot possible avoid the adverse psychological effects. Some may handle it better than others. Some may not handle it so well. One mother I know will tell you just that. Her deaf son who was raised as an oralist finally killed himself. He wrote a letter (which I have a copy of) to his mother explaining that he was tired of wearing the mask of trying to fit in with her world. He said in his letter...why couldn't I just be deaf?
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You know, it is beyond me why parents don't understand that their child will make every effort to give what is demanded of them. As a child, they do what pleases their parents, because it translates into acceptance and approval. All children need acceptance and approval. And, quite often, the parents are the only place they can get even a reasonable facsimile of that, since they are constantly made to feel as if they are on the outside looking in while in the mainstream. Even when the parental acceptance is conditional, it is better than nothing, and a child will cling to it with all their might.

However, offer them an option that is more beneficial to their needs, and watch the change happen before your very eyes!
 
deafbajagal said:
Her deaf son who was raised as an oralist finally killed himself. He wrote a letter (which I have a copy of) to his mother explaining that he was tired of wearing the mask of trying to fit in with her world. He said in his letter...why couldn't I just be deaf?
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That's really sad for someone to be driven to that extreme.
 
deafbajagal said:
What did you mean by having "a different idea of what happens to a child raised in oralism..." ?
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To me, oralism is simply being raised in an oral environment. My mom never denied me anything except sign at an early age, which I am sure people think is cruel itself. However, she bought a CC decoder as early as she could, got a TTY for me and any other accommodations I could get. She talked to my teachers to make sure they face me. She also introduced me to other deaf people who signed. We even took an ASL class together once.

Some of the stuff I hear about oralism such as hands being smacked when signing, forced to watch TV w no CC, "pretending" not to be deaf, and so on... that's supposed to describe oralism? That's what I mean by my idea being different from others.

I understand that the type of people who are ashamed of their child being deaf would tend to go for oralism, and these people probably would do the things mentioned in the previous paragraph. That's a shame.
 
Daredevel7 said:
To me, oralism is simply being raised in an oral environment. My mom never denied me anything except sign at an early age, which I am sure people think is cruel itself. However, she bought a CC decoder as early as she could, got a TTY for me and any other accommodations I could get. She talked to my teachers to make sure they face me. She also introduced me to other deaf people who signed. We even took an ASL class together once.

Some of the stuff I hear about oralism such as hands being smacked when signing, forced to watch TV w no CC, "pretending" not to be deaf, and so on... that's supposed to describe oralism? That's what I mean by my idea being different from others.

I understand that the type of people who are ashamed of their child being deaf would tend to go for oralism, and these people probably would do the things mentioned in the previous paragraph. That's a shame.
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Yes, Vicky, it is a shame. Be grateful that it was not taken to extremes in your case. Many many others are not so fortunate.
 
Daredevel7 said:
To me, oralism is simply being raised in an oral environment. My mom never denied me anything except sign at an early age, which I am sure people think is cruel itself. However, she bought a CC decoder as early as she could, got a TTY for me and any other accommodations I could get. She talked to my teachers to make sure they face me. She also introduced me to other deaf people who signed. We even took an ASL class together once.

Some of the stuff I hear about oralism such as hands being smacked when signing, forced to watch TV w no CC, "pretending" not to be deaf, and so on... that's supposed to describe oralism? That's what I mean by my idea being different from others.

I understand that the type of people who are ashamed of their child being deaf would tend to go for oralism, and these people probably would do the things mentioned in the previous paragraph. That's a shame.
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My mother also raised me orally. I did not get a TDD or CC decoder until I joined the state school for the deaf. My mother did not even know these things existed, until I told her about them.

I do not blame my mother for the way she raised me. She truly did not know any better. The Influence she got from the professionals. To raise me orally. She did her best. She realized I was missing out on certain things and found out about the Deaf School. She asked me if I wanted to go to the summer camp they had. I said yes. From then on I bloomed! :)
 
I faked my happiness to anyone who was around me and lied about it. I even lied about it to myself. My mom thought I was growing up to be this happy self-confident deaf person who can communciate with hearing people. She was partly right..I could communicate with hearing people TO AN EXTENT but had no self-esteem left by the time I entered early adulthood and was so beyond ashamed of my deafness and so obsessed with the need to fit in like my hearing peers could fit in anywhere. It ended up distorting my perspectives of the world and of myself. Therapy and learning ASL changed all of that.

My mom said she had no idea how much I suffered growing up as a oral-only deaf person.
 
I never got the opportunity for deaf camps and what not. I was completely oral, completely mainstreamed, and completely ostracized. I was the 'different' kid, and quite honestly I was the class freak, the loner.

I never had a lasting friendship from school. They were sporadic at best. I would have a best friend for a year, then over the summer that friendship would die away because my summers were often spent at home watching TV all day. I never got the benefit of social groups or events except for softball, but even then I never really understood the game because after one game, the kids were leaving the dug out and high fiving each other, and I went to a lady and asked who won. Our team lost. That's when I realized I wasn't enjoying softball, I never knew what was going on, I was oblivious.

In school, I was always the loner kid, playing by myself in the corner of the playground. When I had a best friend, it was only for a short time. I was never a part of the 'cool' crowd like my brother was. I never had a date to the prom, I got booted out from my senior prom by a classmate simply because I was a freak.

I left that prom crying because I was hurt - I'm fighting back tears now just thinking about it and that was back in 2002. You'd think something like that a person would 'get over'. But you don't. Especially when everyone's idea of a high school prom is a magical one- and mine was far from that - a nightmarish one really.

When our class walked at graduation, and our principal said to pair up with someone you want to walk with. Everyone walked with some one - except me. No one wanted to walk with me. No one had wanted to be with me all those years and that was a hard blow to an 18 year old.

If I could travel back in time, I would beg my parents to let me go to ASD where there would be people like me there who would be more willing to accept me.

At ATU there are no other deaf students on campus that I am aware of. I wish I knew of another deafie on campus so that I could reach out and try to form a lasting bond for the first time in my life.

Another thing I am sad about is that everyone here can talk about growing up deaf, the deaf stories, jokes, and even certain terms that you know that I don't know which only tells me that I am not yet a full member of the deaf.

I am not hearing, but I am not fully deaf - it leaves me in a very isolated place.

My marriage was horrible, my ex would get mad at me and say things like "I'll give you a hundred dollars if you can tell me what I just said." Even my mom got in on this a little bit, it was very degrading.

I can't blame my hearing status entirely for a lifetime of bad relationships, but I wonder if I had friends who were in the same boat as me and we shared a common method of communication, I would wonder having that one best friend would be enough for me to feel confident about myself.

Basically what it comes down to is that not only am I achieving academic and professional goals as a person, but also I need someone there to tell me I'm good enough, and to have that lasting bond with someone. A lasting and meaningful relationship that apparently I missed out on as a child.
 
Dixie: You were never a freak. You were a deaf child being raised orally. Your story mirrors the stories of many in the same boat.

And one phrase you said caught my eye> "I am not hearing, but I am not fully deaf."

Were you talking about being fully deaf from a social/cultural perspective or from a medical perspective?
 
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