Oral school

[rick48]

There you go. Non-sign supported aural rehab. The very definition of AVT. Call it what you will. It is still demanding that a bi-bi school not use sign in this selected instance. Totally against the philosophy to deny sign on a bi-bi campus.

That is truly laughable!

All forms of oral, aural, auditory, etc S&L therapy at some times have the child rely solely on their auditory skills without the use of any visual clues. That in no way whatsover makes the therapy AVT. That in no way totally defines the philosophy of the school. You are grasping at straws in your attempts to turn this into an AVT vs. bi-bi argument. What's your term du jour: twisting one's words to suit your agenda.

Also, FJ has already stated that Miss Kat's therapist, as all good therapists do, adapts the therapy to the child and not the other way around. She is seeking the same from her child's school.

 

[jillio]

And what do you think about the bi-bi schools that have spoken language classes? MSSD has a whole spoken language "track". Why is ok for some bi-bi schools to over appropriate services for children with access to spoken language, but NOT ok for others?

You are going to have to clarify what you mean by "spoken language track" at MSSD, and offer some support that would show this to be true. There certainly isn't anything that says anything about a "spoken language track" anywhere in their program description or department descriptions.

 

[jillio]

That is truly laughable!

All forms of oral, aural, auditory, etc S&L therapy at some times have the child rely solely on their auditory skills without the use of any visual clues. That in no way whatsover makes the therapy AVT. That in no way totally defines the philosophy of the school. You are grasping at straws in your attempts to turn this into an AVT vs. bi-bi argument. What's your term du jour: twisting one's words to suit your agenda.

Also, FJ has already stated that Miss Kat's therapist, as all good therapists do, adapts the therapy to the child and not the other way around. She is seeking the same from her child's school.

Perhaps the ones you have been exposed to do that...but then, given your membership in A.G. Bell, and your oral stance, that isn't surprising. But there are programs out there that encourage the use of visual cues to enhance auditory comprehension and discrimination.

She has also stated that she does not like the therapist, disagrees with the therapist's use of sign, and wants the SLP fired from the school because she continues to use sign which FJ feels is wrong to do with a child using a CI. You really probably should go back and familiarize yourself with all of the posts in the topic instead of just picking and choosing those that you think support your oral way.

 

[shel90]

I do find it ironic that her school has been so rigerously defended JUST because it uses ASL. It could be the worst school in the nation for all anyone knows (it's not but still...)

I thought u were complaining about the SLP? So are u complaining about the school or not? I am getting really confused here to what you really want.

 

[shel90]

You are going to have to clarify what you mean by "spoken language track" at MSSD, and offer some support that would show this to be true. There certainly isn't anything that says anything about a "spoken language track" anywhere in their program description or department descriptions.

I have never heard of MSSD offering spoken language classes.

 

[jillio]

Most of all, the main point is being missed that you are just asking them to comply with the terms of the IEP they agreed to.

Again, I caution you to think about whether the fight is worth it. Will they ultimately "provide" the service but in a wholely ineffective manor? Are you better off starting with the school where you think she might ultimately wind up and working with that Administration?

They are complying with the IEP. One of the goals is tp improve her listening skills. They are providing the services in line with that goal. FJ just does not like the methodology they are using. Again, you cannot dictate the methodology used. You can only request that a service be provided. The school then has the option of including it in the IEP or not including it in the IEP. They have included listening skills to her goals. They are providing services to assist in the achievment of that goal. They are doing what they are legally required to do. They are in compliance with the IEP. They are in compliance with IDEA and the ADA by providing "reasonable accommodation."

No where in the ADA or IDEA (which is the legislation that is responsible for the IEP) does it say that a school system has to comply with whatever request a parent makes. No where does it give a parent the right to dictate methodology. Try reading the documents. It would clarify the points on which you are obviously confused.

 

[jillio]

I have never heard of MSSD offering spoken language classes.

Me, either. Especially not a "spoken language track" within their curriculum.

 

[shel90]

Bilingual-Bicultural Education as a Return to Total Communication

The bi-bi movement is really a return to the original essence of TC. Bi-bi programs continue the use of aural/oral training and sometimes even the use of MCE. However, the communication emphasis is on ASL and written English. This way, all students have equal access to academic material. That is, academic success is not dependent on aural/oral abilities. However, aural/oral training still exists in bi-bi schools, but it is held separate from daily classroom instruction.


Bilingual-Bicultural Education for Deaf Students

 

[doubletrouble]

OMG... I cannot believe that I am going to even say it, ( and I am not being sarcastic) but FJ, I would have to agree with Jillio on this one. You can't have it both ways- what you are describing is a "perfect" world, in which there is not one. Like they have said, you are flip floping. I don't want to single you out, but you've got to make a decision and then decide what the appropriate placement is. I know it's hard , and you want the best for her (as we all do) but unfortunately, it can't be everything. If you want Miss Kat to grow up as a native signer, then she is going to have to be exposed to Deaf people and culture everyday or else she will lose it. If you want her to use her cochlear implant to its fullest, then maybe a mainstream program is best for her. Either way, there are going to be ramifications for your decision. That's just the tough part about being a parent. I just had a TOD try to shove summer school down my throat for my son - not because he needs it, but because eveyone else does it. I told her in no uncertain terms that I am not "ruining' my son's summer with endless therapy and schooling . If he needed it , fine, but he doesn't and first and foremost, he's a child and I want him to enjoy being a child. I don't want him at any point ever resent therapy or additional services being shoved down his throat. It's not worth it to me. But that's me, and my decision, as do you have to make a decision as well.

 

[jillio]

Thank you! I am in no way attempting to influence which placement this parent chooses. I am simply saying, make a decision and stick with it. Any decision has pros and cons.

And I have to say I am in agreement with your decision over summer school. A child needs time to be a child, whether they are hearing or deaf.

 

[rick48]

Perhaps the ones you have been exposed to do that...but then, given your membership in A.G. Bell, and your oral stance, that isn't surprising. But there are programs out there that encourage the use of visual cues to enhance auditory comprehension and discrimination.

She has also stated that she does not like the therapist, disagrees with the therapist's use of sign, and wants the SLP fired from the school because she continues to use sign which FJ feels is wrong to do with a child using a CI. You really probably should go back and familiarize yourself with all of the posts in the topic instead of just picking and choosing those that you think support your oral way.

Here's what FJ said about her therapist and the one I was referring to, doesn't sound like she either hates her or disagrees with the use of sign:

Her therapy is done at the University. It is an excellent program. And for the record our AV therapist is a fluent signer (though it is Signed English) and she thinks that therapy should fit the child. When Miss Kat couldn't hear well (and didn't really care) we had ASL signers as therapists but now that she can hear well and is using spoken language better, we are moving toward a "stricter AV" style therapy.

What she is concerned about is that the therapist at the bi-bi school will sign the words that Miss Kat is trying to learn auditorily, which obviously defeats the whole point of the therapy. Again, good therapists will use a variety of methods and philosophies to help a child but if you are focusing on a particular skill--such as just using the auditory skills to learn or say a sound or word then you would remove the visual clues for that particular exercise.


It is you who needs some familiarization with the posts, just as you mischaracterized what I posted. But then again, when you have no arguments, you do what you do best: resort to labels and misrepresentations. Give the whole AGB thing a rest. It is as tired and lame as your bogus arguments.

When discussing the various forms of oral S&L therapy, I clearly stated that: "All forms of oral, aural, auditory, etc S&L therapy at SOME [emphasis added] times have the child rely solely on their auditory skills..." That is the direct opposite of what you are saying, please try and keep up with the posts dear, it can help your arguments.

As to the therapists I have been exposed to, all I can say is that my daughter was blessed to have a truly wonderful therapist who for the 16 years she worked with our daughter became so much more than just a therapist. She adapted her therapy to my daughter's needs and strengths and used a variety of means to make the therapy both enjoyable and worthwhile. So, before you open your mouth to insert your foot once more, perhaps you should know the facts.

Happy Mother's Day!

 

[Lighthouse77]

your daughter is lucky that she had ASL.. I NEVER had ASL in my life. I write exactly what I hear sometimes (except I know how to spell words)

 

[shel90]

your daughter is lucky that she had ASL.. I NEVER had ASL in my life. I write exactly what I hear sometimes (except I know how to spell words)

I agree...I feel that Miss Kat is lucky to have ASL since many of us grew up without it.

 

[Bottesini]

your daughter is lucky that she had ASL.. I NEVER had ASL in my life. I write exactly what I hear sometimes (except I know how to spell words)

ASL and written English don't really go together. It is separate languages.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I know, my creativity expression and expressing myself is very lacking. that's all. I think I've spent more time trying to understand people than expressing myself. plus, I've heard there is SEE that can help with your writing. expressing yourself is part of writing.

 

[jillio]

Here's what FJ said about her therapist and the one I was referring to, doesn't sound like she either hates her or disagrees with the use of sign:

Her therapy is done at the University. It is an excellent program. And for the record our AV therapist is a fluent signer (though it is Signed English) and she thinks that therapy should fit the child. When Miss Kat couldn't hear well (and didn't really care) we had ASL signers as therapists but now that she can hear well and is using spoken language better, we are moving toward a "stricter AV" style therapy.

What she is concerned about is that the therapist at the bi-bi school will sign the words that Miss Kat is trying to learn auditorily, which obviously defeats the whole point of the therapy. Again, good therapists will use a variety of methods and philosophies to help a child but if you are focusing on a particular skill--such as just using the auditory skills to learn or say a sound or word then you would remove the visual clues for that particular exercise.


It is you who needs some familiarization with the posts, just as you mischaracterized what I posted. But then again, when you have no arguments, you do what you do best: resort to labels and misrepresentations. Give the whole AGB thing a rest. It is as tired and lame as your bogus arguments.

When discussing the various forms of oral S&L therapy, I clearly stated that: "All forms of oral, aural, auditory, etc S&L therapy at SOME [emphasis added] times have the child rely solely on their auditory skills..." That is the direct opposite of what you are saying, please try and keep up with the posts dear, it can help your arguments.

As to the therapists I have been exposed to, all I can say is that my daughter was blessed to have a truly wonderful therapist who for the 16 years she worked with our daughter became so much more than just a therapist. She adapted her therapy to my daughter's needs and strengths and used a variety of means to make the therapy both enjoyable and worthwhile. So, before you open your mouth to insert your foot once more, perhaps you should know the facts.

Happy Mother's Day!

You are going to have to do more than dig up one post. There have been contradictions on this topic too numerous to mention. Obviously, you have failed to keep up with all of the posts in not just this thread, but several other threads, as well. Most definately, you missed the many where she said she wanted the SLP fired. And the therapy she receives at university has absolutely nothing to do with her school placement. That is outside the school's services. The issue here is the educational placement, and the services provided in that placement. The only one lacking in their facts is you.

A variety of means, none of which included visual communication for clarity and added cues. Or did you forget that?

And Happy Mother's Day to you, too.

 

[jillio]

your daughter is lucky that she had ASL.. I NEVER had ASL in my life. I write exactly what I hear sometimes (except I know how to spell words)

Just so I am clear, were you referring to rick48's daughter, or FJ's daughter?

 

[shel90]

You are going to have to do more than dig up one post. There have been contradictions on this topic too numerous to mention. Obviously, you have failed to keep up with all of the posts in not just this thread, but several other threads, as well. Most definately, you missed the many where she said she wanted the SLP fired. And the therapy she receives at university has absolutely nothing to do with her school placement. That is outside the school's services. The issue here is the educational placement, and the services provided in that placement. The only one lacking in their facts is you.

A variety of means, none of which included visual communication for clarity and added cues. Or did you forget that?

And Happy Mother's Day to you, too.

u would have to wait until next month to grant him the same wish!!!!

 

[faire_jour]

Just because it has merged with the school for the deaf does not mean that it has not retained it's charter status. Many charter schools are affiliated with a public district. That doesn't mean that they don't have charter status under the board of education.

You have said those things repeatedly. Then you have turned right around and said those things repeatedly. That is the problem. You waffle back and forth. You, for instance will say that you want her to be in school with signing deaf students for communication and social reasons, then will turn right around and say that you want her with hearing kids and non-signing environments because you don't see how she will ever develop oral skill in a silent evironment during the school day. In fact, it was just a short while ago that you were going to move her to an oral only environment academically because you believed she needed to be around hearing people and speech all the time. Now you have reversed that position once again, after having reversed it from a strong bi-bi position after she received her CI. It's back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

You are flat out wrong. I have never said that I want her around hearing people. Never. I have said that being in a silent classroom for 7 hours a day is counterproductive for her listening skills, therefore we have considered placing her in an oral DEAF ed class.

 

[jillio]

You are flat out wrong. I have never said that I want her around hearing people. Never. I have said that being in a silent classroom for 7 hours a day is counterproductive for her listening skills, therefore we have considered placing her in an oral DEAF ed class.

And who teaches the oral deaf ed class?

But let me put it a bit more succintly....you want her to be around peers who speak and listen as their main mode of communication. At least, some of the time, it is what you want.

You also said this:
I don't want to address my child in particular. I just want to see the overall opinion of the people here. To see what the "vibe" of the Deaf community here is on this point.

But that is exactly what you have turned it into. Go figure.