Sim-comm

evil_queen_lisa · 01-07-2010, 11:44 PM

Hey All,
can anyone give me some information/experiences with Sim-Comm? After speaking with Jenny about it, i'm going to look into it at uni... For the first time in years I had a 3 hr conversation where i knew 100% of what was going on and didn't get tired out lipreading... definitely going to have to check into this!

How many interpreters do this?

Thanks!
*EQL*

CJB · 01-08-2010, 10:51 AM

Both of my interpreters sim-com in quieter environments so that even if I don't know a sign I can try to pick up the spoken word, and sign-only in noisy environments where I really can't make out what they're saying anyway. I'm HOH though so it's the best approach for me.

Watermelon · 01-08-2010, 03:07 PM

Sim-Com works well. Like CJB, I get the advantages of lip-reading the spoken word when I'm not familiar with a sign. Most of the interpreters that I've met do sim-com.

evil_queen_lisa · 01-27-2010, 10:54 PM

Maybe I'll ask again:
Interpreters out there... do you know SIM-COMM, or it is something 'specialized'??
*EQL*

**Bottesini** · 01-27-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil_queen_lisa

Maybe I'll ask again:
Interpreters out there... do you know SIM-COMM, or it is something 'specialized'??
*EQL*

I believe it does not work as ASL and English are two different languages, therefore you can't really sign and speak the same.

**Reba** · 01-27-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I believe it does not work as ASL and English are two different languages, therefore you can't really sign and speak the same.

Correct. Either the person using sim-comm has to speak correct English and sign SEE/PSE, or sign ASL and speak English gloss. One or (usually) both languages suffer in the process.

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 07:24 AM

hmmm..
Jenny was telling me that it was where they mouthed the words and signed using ASL signs but english word order. That way you could watch the signs/lipread at the same time. It sounded pretty good for me since I am not anywhere near fluent in ASL, so that wouldn't help me, and it takes soo much concentration to listen through my FM.
Does that sound like what you guys are describing?
Thanks,
*EQL*

Mrs Bucket · 01-28-2010, 07:54 AM

In ASL, there are mouth morphemes.

SimCom is not an accepted method of communication whereas ASL is the language of the Deaf.

**Cheri** · 01-28-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil_queen_lisa

Hey All,
can anyone give me some information/experiences with Sim-Comm? After speaking with Jenny about it, i'm going to look into it at uni... For the first time in years I had a 3 hr conversation where i knew 100% of what was going on and didn't get tired out lipreading... definitely going to have to check into this!

How many interpreters do this?

Thanks!
*EQL*

Most of my interpreters use Sim-Com, they usually sign in SEE/PSE. Both signing methods come from ASL, but they are not used in an ASL-ish way, but rather in a more normal English pattern. But if they're signing in ASL, they use mouth morphemes.

CJB · 01-28-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

In ASL, there are mouth morphemes.

SimCom is not an accepted method of communication whereas ASL is the language of the Deaf.

Not to derail the thread, but is it rude for a hearing or late-deafened person to use mouth morphemes? I was under the impression that it was just part of the language and free for all to use, but a friend of mine told me it's seen as highly offensive by some Deaf/Hoh people.

Waxy · 01-28-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

Not to derail the thread, but is it rude for a hearing or late-deafened person to use mouth morphemes? I was under the impression that it was just part of the language and free for all to use, but a friend of mine told me it's seen as highly offensive by some Deaf/Hoh people.

wow... time up..

what?
How can that be?
No way...
It doesn't make any sense...

girlingrey · 01-28-2010, 02:02 PM

My d friend had terps in a class we were in, and, when they were standing up at the front of the room interpreting, they would mouth the words with an english word order, while i believe using asl. Then, when sitting, the terp would usually use SEE, sometimes ASL, between my pidgin attempts at signing, while mouthing the words with the english word order.

dogmom · 01-28-2010, 02:46 PM

this is my understanding but please correct me if I wrong....
English word order by default, means it's not ASL <?>
ASL and English are two entirely different things <?>

JennyB · 01-28-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

In ASL, there are mouth morphemes.

SimCom is not an accepted method of communication whereas ASL is the language of the Deaf.

SimCom can work. Lisa doesn't have strong ASL skill so when we were together I signed PSE and spoke English at the same time. As a result she understood what was going on and we had a smooth conversation. Should I have signed ASL or only spoken she would not have understood as much and with as much ease.

In my opinion if SimCom is what will help her understand her classes and get an accessible education then that is what matters. I used SimCom my first year and I would have died without the ability to speech read. Now I just use ASL and that works really well for me and that is great, but I couldn't do my first year with just ASL.

So - I guess my point is that what works for Lisa works for Lisa. There are also MANY students in our Toronto Universities who are requesting interpreters to sign and mouth at the same time. This isn't a rare request by any means. If it helps the student understand the content that is what is important.

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyB

SimCom can work. Lisa doesn't have strong ASL skill so when we were together I signed PSE and spoke English at the same time. As a result she understood what was going on and we had a smooth conversation. Should I have signed ASL or only spoken she would not have understood as much and with as much ease.

In my opinion if SimCom is what will help her understand her classes and get an accessible education then that is what matters. I used SimCom my first year and I would have died without the ability to speech read. Now I just use ASL and that works really well for me and that is great, but I couldn't do my first year with just ASL.

So - I guess my point is that what works for Lisa works for Lisa. There are also MANY students in our Toronto Universities who are requesting interpreters to sign and mouth at the same time. This isn't a rare request by any means. If it helps the student understand the content that is what is important.

Thanks Jenny! yes, if I had ASL interpreter I WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND MY CLASSES. I am not trying to replace learning ASL, i am taking classes and learning as much as I can on my own with my friends. Ideally, in a year or two I would hope to be able to use ASL interpreters in classes, but for the moment that would not help me any more than what I am getting right now.

I am currently trying to find a method that works for me because I find using my FM/lipreading the prof and other students to be EXTREMELY tiring. I used to be okay with just my FM, and could even take notes while just listening. However, lately I have been finding it necessary to use my FM AND lipread the prof, making it nearly impossible to take notes. I am spending so much concentration trying to understand what is said that I can't stop and write anything down without missing a couple sentences (which is obviously problematic).

My profs give me their powerpoint slides, but I have difficulty writting what they have verbally added to the slides. My school has peer note-takers, but unfortunately they are only trained to write down information on the board (i believe they are mostly used by students with LDs who find taking notes hard but understand/can hear the lecture okay). I have a 'computerized note-taker' in one class who I have asked to take notes 'verbatim', however, she just isn't fast enough and ends up having to summarize what is said (assuming she understands because the prof is Chinese).

Basically, I'm trying to find a way to get access to the lecture that works. My school doesn't seem to understand that reading a summary of a lecture is not the same as reading the lecture word-for-word (or hearing it). However, I don't learn by reading summaries, i learn by making my own summaries. I also don't get any of the information when students ask a question, because by the time I have located the speaker they have finished the question. One of my profs is good at repeating the question, but some aren't and either forget or don't rephrase it very clear.

Now if only my school can find someone here that does sim-comm... even proper verbatim note taking would be good, but it would not help me learn ASL signs in the long run.

Anyway, thanks for your help everyone,
*EQL*

**edited the last paragraph a bit for clarity**

Mrs Bucket · 01-28-2010, 08:50 PM

Just a word of caution, it is extremely difficult to find an interpreter that is fluent in SimCom as most of the interpreters in the T.O area use ASL.

However you could request an interpreter that is experienced in this area and others too as well.

If you to try SimCom, you'd want to try ASL down the road as well.

EQL & JB - we three should get together and chat!

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

Just a word of caution, it is extremely difficult to find an interpreter that is fluent in SimCom as most of the interpreters in the T.O area use ASL.

However you could request an interpreter that is experienced in this area and others too as well.

If you to try SimCom, you'd want to try ASL down the road as well.

EQL & JB - we three should get together and chat!

Thanks, i'm studying in St Catharines, which is why i think it's difficult for them to find an interpreter (or maybe they've just stopped trying?).

Mrs Bucket I would love to get together and chat sometime!!

*EQL*

JennyB · 01-28-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

Just a word of caution, it is extremely difficult to find an interpreter that is fluent in SimCom as most of the interpreters in the T.O area use ASL.

I can probably list about 20 without even thinking that can do PSE/mouthing. I can even list a few that request the Deaf people use it...

Mrs Bucket · 01-28-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyB

I can probably list about 20 without even thinking that can do PSE/mouthing. I can even list a few that request the Deaf people use it...

Be a dear and give me that list!

EQL, we definitely have to get together when time is best for you.

Smile!

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 09:10 PM

What exactly does PSE stand for? Maybe I need to ask for that?
*EQL*

**Bottesini** · 01-28-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil_queen_lisa

What exactly does PSE stand for? Maybe I need to ask for that?
*EQL*

Pidgin Signed English

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

Be a dear and give me that list!

EQL, we definitely have to get together when time is best for you.

Smile!

Do you work during the day? If not, hows Feb 10th? Jenny invited me to a club meeting from 7-10pm, but i'm off the whole day so I can come earlier.

*EQL*

JennyB · 01-28-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil_queen_lisa

Do you work during the day? If not, hows Feb 10th? Jenny invited me to a club meeting from 7-10pm, but i'm off the whole day so I can come earlier.

*EQL*

yes! The Deaf knitting group!

On Feb 5th there is an ASL Club movie night too!

JennyB · 01-28-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

Be a dear and give me that list!

EQL, we definitely have to get together when time is best for you.

Smile!

PMing it to you now!

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyB

yes! The Deaf knitting group!

On Feb 5th there is an ASL Club movie night too!

What time is it? Not sure if I can afford to come to both, but we'll see. PS - i'm going to go to BRCD winter retreat.. did you decide if you will volunteer or not this year?

*EQL*

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 09:29 PM

haha.. oh, Jenny, i hope knowledge of how to knit is not necessary for the knitting club?
*EQL*

JennyB · 01-28-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil_queen_lisa

What time is it? Not sure if I can afford to come to both, but we'll see. PS - i'm going to go to BRCD winter retreat.. did you decide if you will volunteer or not this year?

*EQL*

I don't think so at this point. Life has kind of taken over this past week and I have no time for anything! Boo!

Knitting is not required!

evil_queen_lisa · 01-28-2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyB

I don't think so at this point. Life has kind of taken over this past week and I have no time for anything! Boo!

Knitting is not required!

Boo! Anything of interest in your life that's taken over??

And the meetings.. the others who are attending, are they fluent in sign? (just curious!)
*EQL*

**Banjo** · 03-03-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil_queen_lisa

Thanks, i'm studying in St Catharines, which is why i think it's difficult for them to find an interpreter (or maybe they've just stopped trying?).

Mrs Bucket I would love to get together and chat sometime!!

*EQL*

Oh, I live in St. Catharines. You must be studying at either Brock University or Niagara College.

**GrendelQ** · 03-05-2010, 06:35 AM

My daughter's teachers (at a bi-bi school with several acoustic access classes for the CI/HA/CODAs) tend to use sim-comm with parents or visitors to the school, so any all-ASL or all-spoken English participants (even if just in the vicinity) are included in the conversation -- but they DON'T use it with the students in the classroom for the reasons others have stated: they don't want either language to be taught incorrectly at this critical learning stage.

It's great for me, receptively, bc I use it to expand knowledge of ASL vocabulary even if the grammar is off. And everything doesn't have to be repeated twice over (or worse, parts of the conversation skipped) for one language or the other.

I'm pretty much amazed at how fluidly they do it -- but even so, the level of discourse suffers, it's only OK if you keep it on a really basic level. For me, speaking English and signing ASL simultaneously would be like speaking English and writing Mandarin at the same time -- wouldn't happen.

The interpreters at the school (who are heroic) shift quickly between the two languages -- may seem like simcom, but if you look closely, you'll see that they are using both English and ASL grammar -- depending upon which way they are translating, and the overlap of gestures/vocals is very slight.

01-07-2010, 11:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
evil_queen_lisa Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 591	Sim-comm Hey All, can anyone give me some information/experiences with Sim-Comm? After speaking with Jenny about it, i'm going to look into it at uni... For the first time in years I had a 3 hr conversation where i knew 100% of what was going on and didn't get tired out lipreading... definitely going to have to check into this! How many interpreters do this? Thanks! EQL

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01-08-2010, 10:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
CJB Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,767	Both of my interpreters sim-com in quieter environments so that even if I don't know a sign I can try to pick up the spoken word, and sign-only in noisy environments where I really can't make out what they're saying anyway. I'm HOH though so it's the best approach for me.

01-08-2010, 03:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
Watermelon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 103	Sim-Com works well. Like CJB, I get the advantages of lip-reading the spoken word when I'm not familiar with a sign. Most of the interpreters that I've met do sim-com.

01-27-2010, 10:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
evil_queen_lisa Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 591	Maybe I'll ask again: Interpreters out there... do you know SIM-COMM, or it is something 'specialized'?? EQL

01-28-2010, 07:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
evil_queen_lisa Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 591	hmmm.. Jenny was telling me that it was where they mouthed the words and signed using ASL signs but english word order. That way you could watch the signs/lipread at the same time. It sounded pretty good for me since I am not anywhere near fluent in ASL, so that wouldn't help me, and it takes soo much concentration to listen through my FM. Does that sound like what you guys are describing? Thanks, EQL

01-28-2010, 07:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	In ASL, there are mouth morphemes. SimCom is not an accepted method of communication whereas ASL is the language of the Deaf.

01-28-2010, 02:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
girlingrey Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 150	My d friend had terps in a class we were in, and, when they were standing up at the front of the room interpreting, they would mouth the words with an english word order, while i believe using asl. Then, when sitting, the terp would usually use SEE, sometimes ASL, between my pidgin attempts at signing, while mouthing the words with the english word order.

01-28-2010, 02:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
dogmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5,475	this is my understanding but please correct me if I wrong.... English word order by default, means it's not ASL <?> ASL and English are two entirely different things <?>

01-28-2010, 08:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	Just a word of caution, it is extremely difficult to find an interpreter that is fluent in SimCom as most of the interpreters in the T.O area use ASL. However you could request an interpreter that is experienced in this area and others too as well. If you to try SimCom, you'd want to try ASL down the road as well. EQL & JB - we three should get together and chat!

01-28-2010, 09:10 PM	#20 (permalink)
evil_queen_lisa Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 591	What exactly does PSE stand for? Maybe I need to ask for that? EQL

01-28-2010, 09:29 PM	#26 (permalink)
evil_queen_lisa Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 591	haha.. oh, Jenny, i hope knowledge of how to knit is not necessary for the knitting club? EQL

03-05-2010, 06:35 AM	#30 (permalink)
GrendelQ 41°17′00″N 70°04′58″W Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New England, USA Posts: 3,419	My daughter's teachers (at a bi-bi school with several acoustic access classes for the CI/HA/CODAs) tend to use sim-comm with parents or visitors to the school, so any all-ASL or all-spoken English participants (even if just in the vicinity) are included in the conversation -- but they DON'T use it with the students in the classroom for the reasons others have stated: they don't want either language to be taught incorrectly at this critical learning stage. It's great for me, receptively, bc I use it to expand knowledge of ASL vocabulary even if the grammar is off. And everything doesn't have to be repeated twice over (or worse, parts of the conversation skipped) for one language or the other. I'm pretty much amazed at how fluidly they do it -- but even so, the level of discourse suffers, it's only OK if you keep it on a really basic level. For me, speaking English and signing ASL simultaneously would be like speaking English and writing Mandarin at the same time -- wouldn't happen. The interpreters at the school (who are heroic) shift quickly between the two languages -- may seem like simcom, but if you look closely, you'll see that they are using both English and ASL grammar -- depending upon which way they are translating, and the overlap of gestures/vocals is very slight.