GadgetQueen

We need to get the word out that some TV manufacturers are designing TVs that cannot decode analog caption data through the TV's analog inputs. Because the FCC has not specified that digital TVs must decode caption data transmitted into the analog inputs, these TVs are not out of compliance with FCC regulations at this time. However, they won't be able to decode caption data transmitted by set top boxes or other external devices via the analog inputs, which include component video, S-video, and composite video. For ANYONE who might eventually need to decode captions using those inputs, including family members or friends of the person who has the TV, that's bad news. Businesses or organizations that are required to display captioning may also want to avoid such TVs.

Samsung is one manufacturer that has decided their TVs won't decode captions via these analog inputs, but it hasn't been communicating that information ahead of time. People who buy DTVs from such manufacturers could find out too late that they will never be able to decode any captions from DVDs or DVRs using that TV.

Some other factors that are complicating things:

• HDTVs cannot decode and then insert captions into the picture if progressive scanning or upconversion is enabled, so for an HDTV to decode caption data via component video, the video resolution needs to be 480i.
• Some set top boxes may not pass through any caption data on the component video output
• HDMI cables are not designed to pass through any caption data at all

Another person wrote on this forum that his Viewsonic HDTV wasn't able to decode captions on the component input.

If one needs to be able to decode captions from a DVD using an HDTV, the best way to view the picture is by using component video. The next best option is S-video, and then composite video. Obviously, some devices may only provide composite video (like converter boxes). That's why it's important for HDTVs to continue to provide the ability to decode captions on all the analog inputs.

Please share information here about any new HDTVs that you've discovered don't decode captions on any of the analog inputs, providing as much detail as you can, like when it was manufactured and what the model number is, and how you determined that the HDTV won't decode captions (like whether you have a statement from the manufacturer about this).

Samsung has several statements online about their TVs not decoding closed captions via component video, like this one:

</title> <META content="Product Support" name=title /> <META content="Product Support" name=kewords /> <META content="Find world class Product Support information here." name=description /> <META content="" name=date SHEME="ISO-8601" /> <META content

and this one:

</title> <META content="Product Support" name=title /> <META content="Product Support" name=kewords /> <META content="Find world class Product Support information here." name=description /> <META content="" name=date SHEME="ISO-8601" /> <META content


(The above links aren't showing up as they should, but they still work.)

Please also share with us if you DO have a 2009 HDTV that can decode captions on the component video inputs, especially if the HDTV does NOT have an NTSC tuner. We need to know what manufacturers are continuing to address the needs of deaf and hard of hearing people and other users of captioning.

Good manufacturers
RCA, Sony, Vizio, Philips: Some current models do appear to decode captions on the component video inputs

Questionable manufacturers
Samsung, LG/Zenith, Mitsubishi, Viewsonic: at least some of their HDTVs have been reported as not being able to decode captions on component video inputs (though it would be a good idea to doublecheck this with new models)

There are still a lot of TVs we don't know about, like Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp, etc.

I will try to keep updating this first post as more information comes in.

Note: I recommend checking a new TV for its capability to decode captions, regardless of information that has been printed about them here or elsewhere. It's important to make sure a new TV will meet your needs before the trial period expires, and information here or anywhere else may not be accurate.

Deafness

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webexplorer

Today, I saw a brand new Samsung HDTV LED at BestBuy store. It is not a LCD TV. It is unbelievable nice and very thin monitor. It contains EnergyStar which is better than a LCD TV. The quality of colors looks very nice. Of course, it is awful expensive for now.

LED TV - televisions | SAMSUNG

I talked a dealer at BestBuy about the closed captions. He said that I need the composite or component ? cables that has yellow, red, and blue labels which works with the captions - probably better quality. I said to him that all cables are the same. He said no. I guess that he might be right about it. I forgot to ask him about an antenna port for the LED TV. Darn it.

sequoias

You probably meant red, green and blue which is component cables also plus red and white as I stated below. The yellow, red and white is composite cables (commonly called as RCA cables). The red and white is sound and the yellow is video. The component cables inputs higher picture quality than the composite cables.

webexplorer

Oh I see. Thank you for correcting me.

sequoias

Please read above what I just edited, but your welcome.

JClarke

What about HDMI cable?

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GadgetQueen

The standard for HDMI cables did not include one for passing through caption data, so caption data is not passed through by HDMI cables. Even if there happened to be a new standard developed (which is not in process), the TVs would also need to be designed differently to decode captions on the HDMI input. Bottom line is that there's no chance of transmitting undecoded closed captions via HDMI at this time.

(HDMI cables convey video informaiton, of course, so they transmit the image of DECODED captions just like any other visual information, but there's currently no way for the TV to decode captions using the HDMI cable.)


That's why this thread addresses whether the digital TV can decode analog, line 21, NTSC caption data on analog inputs:

component
S-video
composite
(RF)

webexplorer

I bought a Philips Component Video and Stereo Audio cable (PXT1000) two months ago. I do not have a HDTV yet! The HDTV with 120 Hz is still expensive. Now, I am very happy that some stores finally are selling the LED HDTVs because they save the electricity by 40 percent difference - except too pricey.

I didn't pay attention the difference between the Composite and Component until now I get your point. I hate a company tricks anything to us. It has red, blue, green, another red, and white label. I bought this cable which cost 15 dollars at Ocean State Job Lot (OSJL). Probably, you don't have that store in the western states. I am sure there are other stores similar to OSJL in your area.

darkage

Yes, it does work. We used to have antenna. My wife complained about weak signal on PBS and CW. All other channels are fine. Digital CC is excellent by over the air better than our Verizon FIOS's HDTV box. FIOS won't let us set up digital CC (size of CC, color CC and style fonts).

Antenna - Depend where you live in apt or condo or townhouse or single house. How far from TV station. Some weak signal made you drive crazy to adjust antenna. See picture of signal strenght scale.

[

Some people complain about lousy CC or picture then blame SONY or Samsung or any brands.
Believe me that all Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, etc are nothing wrong with CC or picture.
Repeat I said depending..... Where do you live in city or suburb or county? How far airport?, type of building? Heavy forest? etc.

Currently, we own 4 HDTV (1 Plasma and 3 LCD). Our first HDTV was Westinghouse LCD. We did not like it because they do not have built-in digital (ATSC) then exchanged for Panasonic Plamsa HDTV in 5 or 6 years ago.

HDMI won't work with CC from Blu-Ray player, DVD with HDMI. Only work well with Verizon FIOS HDTV Box (no digital CC - just standard CC like old fashion)

Component (Green, Red and Blue) cable work well from DVD players (not all model - some model won't show CC)

RCA cable (Yellow, Red and White) - great CC from DVD players or VCR player.

Which best choice Antenna?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779

I never try homemade antenna.
Coat Hanger HDTV Antenna: Better Than Store Bought! AMAZING! - Video

GadgetQueen

Since you've got four HDTVs, how about letting us know how each of those TVs do with respect to decoding captions on the component video inputs? If they all do, let us know the approximate year you purchased them and what the manufacturer of the TV is. If they have only an ATSC tuner, then let us know that as well. It'll be REALLY interesting to find HDTVs that don't have an NTSC tuner but still have the ability to decode NTSC captions.

So, any one reading this who has an DTV with analog inputs, please let us know the following:

Month and year of TV's manufacture or when you bought it:
Manufacturer:
Please indicate whether the DTV has an analog (NTSC) and a digital (ATSC) tuner, or just a digital tuner:
Does it decode analog captions from a DVD player that transmits analog captions at 480i on all of the following inputs:

1. Component (green, red, blue)
2. S-video
3. Composite (yellow)
4. RF

If you want to indicate anything else about how the TV handles captioning, that would be really interesting. For example, Panasonic TVs may not have a caption button on the remote or a "caption preview" feature in the menu. Some TVs may offer only a couple of caption fonts that can get sufficiently large. Still more may have problems decoding captions from certain stations.

If possible, please create a separate entry for each DTV made in 2008 or 2009 and use the kind of TV in the title of the entry (like 2008 Samsung LCD HDTV). Older HDTVs could be lumped together on the theory that how they were designed years ago won't necessarily reflect what's being done now.

EscapeVelocity

Hello, I am extremely hard of hearing myself. I hope you liked my guide.

Here is some info on Coupon Eligible Converter Boxes and their Closed Captioning systems.

Evaluating Digital to Analog Converter Boxes for Users of Captioning

Hope this helps.

Best regards

EV

peternagy

I would like to clarify about this new Samsung "LED" TV. It is still an LCD TV with LED backlight. It replaces the older CCFL (Cold Cathode Florescence Tube) backlight. It's mis-leading the way Samsung markets their products. If it was a real LED panel, it would have cost a fortune (close to six figures). LED panels are not yet ready for the consumer market (price wise).

This is a fantastic TV but it cannot be mounted on the wall because it's extremely thin and not strong enough to be wall mounted.

Samsung UN55B7100 Review - HDTV Reviews

This is what the above link said:

"The 55-inch UN55B7100 features a 1080p / Full HD LCD panel with LED lighting for deeper blacks and higher contrast ratio. Auto Motion Plus 120Hz image processing is also featured, which doubles the frame rate to 120Hz, helping to eliminate motion blur in fast action scenes."

Peter