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Unread 04-13-2008, 04:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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PS3 & Blu-ray Players: Why Closed Captioning is Necessary

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PS3 & Blu-ray Players: Why Closed Captioning is Necessary

The HDMI cable, it is a wonderful thing to have. It can carry the 1080p signal bringing you true high-definition video and audio quality. The bad news is that there are drawbacks. The cable itself is only able to transmit a video signal and an audio signal simultaneously.

What this means is that you cannot put any other signal through a HDMI cable because it will not be recognized at the other end. This is an issue for many deaf and hard of hearing people. A lot of deaf people use closed captioning to read the dialogues and background noises so they can become aware of what is going on.

Closed captioning and SDH are different. SDH itself is image-based while closed captioning is ASCII-based. For the last 10 years with the HDTVs on the market, people are still facing issues with built-in CC decoders on their HDTV sets. There are a few factors in why these are happening. For example, many DVD players are unable to send the CC signal to the HDTV when it is enabled in the progressive mode. The reason why this happens is because the analog CC fills in every 21st line in the interlaced mode. So when it is in the progressive mode, all lines appear at once so the CC signal is unable to find a place to fill in the information.
To read the full blog entry, just click here.
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Unread 04-13-2008, 02:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I suggest visit Captioning Sucks! and help to make sure that North American(as well as the world) get the same standard than scattered mess of how CC or OC as well as subtitles are shown.
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I find that when I'm channel surfing, Fox News is like that carton of milk way past its expiration date, taunting you from the back of the refrigerator. You KNOW it's gonna smell, but still you open it up and take a whiff. by: bc68251 on February 21, 2006
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Unread 04-13-2008, 02:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boult View Post
I suggest visit Captioning Sucks! and help to make sure that North American(as well as the world) get the same standard than scattered mess of how CC or OC as well as subtitles are shown.
Thank you for the link!
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Unread 04-13-2008, 02:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I just posted another blog entry in relation to the link Boult provided. :-)

Banjo's World: Captioning Sucks!
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Unread 04-22-2008, 11:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I wonder how long it will be before they fix this problem.

Think about it... how long was it after analog televisions were made before closed captioning decoders were made available to the public?
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Unread 04-22-2008, 12:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Boult View Post
I suggest visit Captioning Sucks! and help to make sure that North American(as well as the world) get the same standard than scattered mess of how CC or OC as well as subtitles are shown.
Dumb question: Are there any laws out there that encourage captioning? Kind of like education,,, isn't it important that Deaf people are kept in the loop about everything from commercials to current event etc? Just curious.
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Unread 04-22-2008, 01:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I read your link, kind of answered the question, but i don't know what actual regulations cover. What about a focused NATIONAL petition.? How do you affect their pocket book? Is there anyway to boycot to his their pocket book, I know that sounded dumb, but maybe you could petition the sponsors who depend on the popularity of shows for their advertising. If they are advertising during certain shows, couldn't you write them and tell them that you are going to boycot their products as a community unless they insist that people they sponsor carry better captioning?? There I go,,, dreamin again... I just believe that there has got to be a solution out there for some of these injustices, and sometimes it only works if you affect the pocket books of the rich @#$%^ that control the thing. If they think it is cheaper to offer lousey captioning, would they still think so if their sponsors pressured them?
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Unread 04-22-2008, 01:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dreamchaser View Post
Dumb question: Are there any laws out there that encourage captioning? Kind of like education,,, isn't it important that Deaf people are kept in the loop about everything from commercials to current event etc? Just curious.
The law covers educational programs, not advertising programs or movies.
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Unread 04-23-2008, 12:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The law covers educational programs, not advertising programs or movies.
Thanks! I glad you know very well. But, darn! Though, these studios are friendly to deaf movie buffs: Universal Studios, Buena Vista, Paramount, Weinstein Company, and Dreamworks have captioning on most bonus materials.

However, advertising programs and most movies through by broadcast television are already captioned by FCC requirements.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 04:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
To read the full blog entry, just click here.

I don't need Closed Captioning from LCD 42". My DVR and Mac Mini already have built-in CC. They use thru HDMI and work smooth and friendly CC.

I tested Apple - QuickTime - HD Gallery on Mac Mini and it's running smooth. I really hope mac mini will running smooth on blu-ray too.

I will order drive from Drive, Super: Blu-ray 2x, Slimline, Slot Loading - FastMac WHEN price drop as $300 or less. $1k is insane. Plus Apple release new version for Dvd player support Blu-ray.

Mac Mini is WAY FAR SMALLER than blu-ray playerand powerful. I use Mac mini as media for dvd player, family photo shared, Hulu - Watch your favorites. Anytime. For free., Subtitles - download DivX subtitles from the biggest open subtitles database, etc.

I am happy I don't own PS3 since it kill power bill.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 04:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Highlander View Post
I don't need Closed Captioning from LCD 42". My DVR and Mac Mini already have built-in CC. They use thru HDMI and work smooth and friendly CC.

I tested Apple - QuickTime - HD Gallery on Mac Mini and it's running smooth. I really hope mac mini will running smooth on blu-ray too.

I will order drive from Drive, Super: Blu-ray 2x, Slimline, Slot Loading - FastMac WHEN price drop as $300 or less. $1k is insane. Plus Apple release new version for Dvd player support Blu-ray.

Mac Mini is WAY FAR SMALLER than blu-ray playerand powerful. I use Mac mini as media for dvd player, family photo shared, Hulu - Watch your favorites. Anytime. For free., Subtitles - download DivX subtitles from the biggest open subtitles database, etc.

I am happy I don't own PS3 since it kill power bill.
You can get a internal blu ray drive and put it in a external enclosure for less than $150.

Blu ray players are under $300 now. It's not $1k anymore.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 04:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yes, In other way to get it work. I am not SURE blu-ray can smooth enough thru USB 2.0 and firewire 400. SATA II still faster than them.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 04:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yes, In other way to get it work. I am not SURE blu-ray can smooth enough thru USB 2.0 and firewire 400. SATA II still faster than them.
Firewire 400 is good enough for blu ray playback. It's up to 60 MB/sec transfer rate. I don't know the blu ray's data transfer rate is, I would guess 25 or so MB/sec. USB 2.0 isn't good for video stuff.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 04:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Highlander View Post
I don't need Closed Captioning from LCD 42". My DVR and Mac Mini already have built-in CC. They use thru HDMI and work smooth and friendly CC.

I am happy I don't own PS3 since it kill power bill.
The blog entry wasn't just about the PS3. It was about how it should be mandated for video devices including DVD players, Blu-ray players, DVR, HDTV receivers, portable DVD players with LCD screens and more to include CC decoders.

About the Mac Mini, does it support HDCP? (High Definition Content Protection) I haven't checked if it does. It's important that it is in order to play Blu-ray movies in 1080p.

The PS3 consumes roughly the same power as a desktop PC. My PowerMac G4 basically heat up the whole room during the winter which is a nice plus. I have to say that my PS3 is super-super quiet. Even the Wii makes more noise. I'm not going to lie about PS3... it's quite a great machine which is extremely well-designed as far I am concerned.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 04:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Firewire 400 is good enough for blu ray playback. It's up to 60 MB/sec transfer rate. I don't know the blu ray's data transfer rate is, I would guess 25 or so MB/sec. USB 2.0 isn't good for video stuff.
You cannot buy external Blu-ray drives yet. only internal as far I know.

ANyway, 60/Mbps sec for firewire... well... that's pushing it. Blu-ray movies itself peak at around 48/Mbps, sometimes even more from what I have observed.

One of my concerns would be if I will be able to play Blu-ray movies on computers via an external drive without any inference or not.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 04:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You cannot buy external Blu-ray drives yet. only internal as far I know.

ANyway, 60/Mbps sec for firewire... well... that's pushing it. Blu-ray movies itself peak at around 48/Mbps, sometimes even more from what I have observed.

One of my concerns would be if I will be able to play Blu-ray movies on computers via an external drive without any inference or not.
I'm talking about buying a internal blu ray drive and then buy a external enclosure and voila you get a external blu ray drive for under $150. The external enclosure has serial ATA connectors to connect into USB 2.0/and or firewire.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 05:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
The blog entry wasn't just about the PS3. It was about how it should be mandated for video devices including DVD players, Blu-ray players, DVR, HDTV receivers, portable DVD players with LCD screens and more to include CC decoders.

About the Mac Mini, does it support HDCP? (High Definition Content Protection) I haven't checked if it does. It's important that it is in order to play Blu-ray movies in 1080p.

The PS3 consumes roughly the same power as a desktop PC. My PowerMac G4 basically heat up the whole room during the winter which is a nice plus. I have to say that my PS3 is super-super quiet. Even the Wii makes more noise. I'm not going to lie about PS3... it's quite a great machine which is extremely well-designed as far I am concerned.
I was not talk about PS3. I was talk everything about DVR, Mac Mini, PS3, etc.

Mac Mini's onboard video do not support HDCP. I don't understand how HD video work fine without HDCP. I guess I have to figure it out in other way.

Well... Power G4 have two sockets are eat up watts than dual cores (single socket)

Most desktop PC still lower watts than PS3.



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You cannot buy external Blu-ray drives yet. only internal as far I know.

ANyway, 60/Mbps sec for firewire... well... that's pushing it. Blu-ray movies itself peak at around 48/Mbps, sometimes even more from what I have observed.

One of my concerns would be if I will be able to play Blu-ray movies on computers via an external drive without any inference or not.
Sequoias tried to tell about that.

Newegg.com - Addonics AE5SACSUF Aluminum 5.25" USB & 1394 External Enclosure - External Enclosures + Newegg.com - LITE-ON Black 12X DVD-ROM 32X CD-ROM SATA Blu-ray DVD-ROM Drive Model DH-4O1S-11 - CD / DVD Drives = blu-ray external drive

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Originally Posted by sequoias View Post
I'm talking about buying a internal blu ray drive and then buy a external enclosure and voila you get a external blu ray drive for under $150. The external enclosure has serial ATA connectors to connect into USB 2.0/and or firewire.
Yep!
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Unread 04-26-2008, 05:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
You cannot buy external Blu-ray drives yet. only internal as far I know.

ANyway, 60/Mbps sec for firewire... well... that's pushing it. Blu-ray movies itself peak at around 48/Mbps, sometimes even more from what I have observed.

One of my concerns would be if I will be able to play Blu-ray movies on computers via an external drive without any inference or not.
now you can

SuperDrive DVD, DVD Dual-Layer, CD-R/RW Upgrades for Apple PowerMacs, eMacs, iMacs, PowerBooks, and iBooks at OtherWorldComputing.com
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I find that when I'm channel surfing, Fox News is like that carton of milk way past its expiration date, taunting you from the back of the refrigerator. You KNOW it's gonna smell, but still you open it up and take a whiff. by: bc68251 on February 21, 2006
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Unread 04-26-2008, 06:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mac Mini's onboard video do not support HDCP. I don't understand how HD video work fine without HDCP. I guess I have to figure it out in other way.
Blu-ray will not be shown in full 1080p if the video card doesn't support HDCP. Instead, it will be downsampled.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 06:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Cool.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 07:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I have this Blu-ray drive and it works great for my Home Theater PC (HTPC).

My HTPC gear:

Windows MCE 2005
Asus P4C800 Deluxe MB
3 GHz Pentium 4 with HT, 1 MB cache
2 GB G-Skill RAM, DDR 400, 2-3-2-5
Two 250 GB SATA Western Digital HDD
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Rabbit Ears indoor antenna (amplified).

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Unread 04-26-2008, 09:38 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
Blu-ray will not be shown in full 1080p if the video card doesn't support HDCP. Instead, it will be downsampled.
How about 720p? 720p still good to me.

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Originally Posted by peternagy View Post
I have this Blu-ray drive and it works great for my Home Theater PC (HTPC).

My HTPC gear:

Windows MCE 2005
Asus P4C800 Deluxe MB
3 GHz Pentium 4 with HT, 1 MB cache
2 GB G-Skill RAM, DDR 400, 2-3-2-5
Two 250 GB SATA Western Digital HDD
Two VBox DTA-150 HDTV tuner 2.1.705.0 driver
Sapphire AGP HD 3850 (Radeon) with Sapphire's CCC driver, 421.zip
NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder 1.02-223
Lite-On Dual layer DVD burner drive
Lite-On Blu-Ray drive
Cyberlink PowerDVD Ultra Version 8
Linksys WiFi-G
Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard and mouse
Logitech Harmony 880 Remote Control
Silverstone LC13 HTPC case
Antec 1000 Watts power supply
Sony KDF-60XBR950 60" LCD rear projection TV (use DVI cable)
Rabbit Ears indoor antenna (amplified).

Peter
Good job! HD 3850 have DHCP. GPU is good price. I wish you have Wifi-N that's good for data transfer rates.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 09:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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How about 720p? 720p still good to me.
I'll rather have 1080p on a 100" screen.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 10:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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http://isnoop.net/blog/wp-content/up...view_large.png

Small difference between 1080p and 720p. 720p not really bother at me at all

Not end the world technology still grow up.

Digital Cinema 2k, 4k, RED Digital Cinema 2540p, Ultra HD, etc.

Ultra HD is bad idea and made people to dizzy.
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Unread 04-26-2008, 11:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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http://isnoop.net/blog/wp-content/up...view_large.png

Small difference between 1080p and 720p. 720p not really bother at me at all
On a big screen, it does make a difference. I watch 1080p contents all of the times. I can tell if I am watching 720p. Besides, that's not really the point.

Why waste money on 1080p contents if you are going to watch it in a lower resolution?

(shrugs)
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Unread 04-27-2008, 12:51 AM   #26 (permalink)
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On a big screen, it does make a difference. I watch 1080p contents all of the times. I can tell if I am watching 720p. Besides, that's not really the point.

Why waste money on 1080p contents if you are going to watch it in a lower resolution?

(shrugs)
That's true if the native resolution of TV is 1920 x 1080. My TV is fours years old and native resolution is 1366 x 768 which is basically 720p but it also supports 1080i (not 1080p). I cannot tell the difference if I set the output of my HTPC to 720p or 1080i because the TV will automatically convert to TV's native resolution.

I plan to buy 1080p LCD TV soon. I am eyeing on the Samsung 57" LCD (LN-T5781F ) with LED backlight. It has a dynamic contrast ratio of 500,000:1 (not a misprint). But it costs $8000!!!

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Unread 04-27-2008, 10:51 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
On a big screen, it does make a difference. I watch 1080p contents all of the times. I can tell if I am watching 720p. Besides, that's not really the point.

Why waste money on 1080p contents if you are going to watch it in a lower resolution?

(shrugs)
You missed my post about technology still grow.

"Digital Cinema 2k, 4k, RED Digital Cinema 2540p, Ultra HD, etc."

When Digital Cienma 2k come out and spend the money buy new LCD/SED/Plasma/projector/Digital Cinema 2k players, etc..

I am fine with 720p LCD 42" for now and stay for 5 years or more later then maybe buy Digital Cienma 2k SED and 2k player. Better than spend money from 480p->720p->1080->2k->4k->blah.

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Unread 04-27-2008, 11:20 AM   #28 (permalink)
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That's true if the native resolution of TV is 1920 x 1080. My TV is fours years old and native resolution is 1366 x 768 which is basically 720p but it also supports 1080i (not 1080p). I cannot tell the difference if I set the output of my HTPC to 720p or 1080i because the TV will automatically convert to TV's native resolution.

I plan to buy 1080p LCD TV soon. I am eyeing on the Samsung 57" LCD (LN-T5781F ) with LED backlight. It has a dynamic contrast ratio of 500,000:1 (not a misprint). But it costs $8000!!!

Peter
Right, the TV will convert it to the HDTV's native resolution. That is why a lot of 480i/p contents look horrible on 720p HDTVs and up because they are forced to be upconverted to the native resolution exposing all of the flaws and artifacts.
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Unread 01-23-2009, 01:08 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Blu-Ray players need to support hard encoding Closed Caption CC

Blu-Ray players need to support hard encoding Closed Caption CC

Blu-Ray players need to support hard encoding Closed Caption CC - Blu-ray Forum

HDMI can not send out Closed Caption. Closed Caption only works at 480i.


There are a lot of DVD that only have Closed Caption most of them are TV shows. Deaf people want to use their PS3 as a upscaler DVD player. So this is a problem.

Blu-Ray need to embed Closed Caption as well on their disc. I know FOX studios do.

Here are some of the reason why deaf people still like Closed Caption over subtitles.

1. Sounds are left out in subtitles like a dog barking and other things. For some reason they put the full script in closed caption.

2. Closed Caption you can change how they display. Color, size, font and so on.

3.When Blu-Ray recorders come out Deaf people like to record a show when they are not come. The only way they can watch the show after it has been recorded is Closed Caption.

Some DVD players do a hard encoding of Closed Caption. They are encoded on the picture. Most of the DVD players that do this are DVD recorders but there are also stand alone DVD players as well.

A lot of deaf people would like to see a firmware update for the PS3 to support "hard encoding of Closed Caption CC."
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Unread 01-23-2009, 03:40 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Highlander View Post
I don't need Closed Captioning from LCD 42". My DVR and Mac Mini already have built-in CC. They use thru HDMI and work smooth and friendly CC.

I tested Apple - QuickTime - HD Gallery on Mac Mini and it's running smooth. I really hope mac mini will running smooth on blu-ray too.

I will order drive from Drive, Super: Blu-ray 2x, Slimline, Slot Loading - FastMac WHEN price drop as $300 or less. $1k is insane. Plus Apple release new version for Dvd player support Blu-ray.

Mac Mini is WAY FAR SMALLER than blu-ray playerand powerful. I use Mac mini as media for dvd player, family photo shared, Hulu - Watch your favorites. Anytime. For free., Subtitles - download DivX subtitles from the biggest open subtitles database, etc.

I am happy I don't own PS3 since it kill power bill.
I glad you found your way. I concern about all deaf people and the standard.
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