Ariakkas

anyone know of any on-line resources where i can find some signs for words used in english class. most grammar type stuff, verb, pronoun etc.

thanks

Deafness

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Anij

I looked (both online and in my plethora of dictionaries, reference books etc) and couldn't really pin down anything that might help ! sorry


From my own perspective (as a hh/D who's struggled with parts of grammar) I'd really appreciate the words fingerspelled out with examples ("P-R-O-N-O-U-N" = "I", "WE", "THEM" THEIRS") ... and then continue just spelling it out ?

I'm just talking about myself (YMMV - OC) but I really struggled with making the connection between the word (written out english "pronoun" etc)and what the heck it was! (actually I still do - anyone want to make an ASL vlog on parts of English speech/writing for me ??? no- I'm not kidding - what is the correct way to use "it's" and "its")


not sure if that helps at all - it is after all only my personal example ... or if I'm just butting in where I don't belong

Ariakkas

thats what im doing...but really...its really cumbersome, and i dont think my student is getting it. he's got this glossed-over look in his eyes. the teacher just lectures too, so its kinda like....spell it...get it out...and move on.

i realize if he doesn't understand its his job to ask the teacher, just wondering if there was more i could be doing.

Interpretrator

You should set up a time with your student to set up signs you both can understand. There are signs for noun, verb, etc. but unfortunately I don't have a site for them as I learned them in my ITP. But it's more important that you and your student are on the same page than that you are using the "correct" signs. Nonce signs -- ones made up for a specific purpose and then not used again -- are fine in this situation, but in the meanwhile it would be good to try and learn some of those signs.

Can you discuss this with a colleague, boss, or mentor who could give you a little seminar on the subject?

Ariakkas

yeah, that was my next course of action, come up with some signs for us to use. we share a prep period and usually chat during that time so it won't be a problem to set up some signs.

as for asking around, absolutly...i've already been trying to set that up.


i had a similar problem in the higher math levels, and found a really good website put out by RIT that showed alot of math and science signs, and i was hoping there was one for english grammar somewhere as well, but every search comes back with learning english grammar, not the lexical terms used at the linguistic level.

Interpretrator

"It's" is a contraction, which you can remember because of the apostrophe. Just as "can't" means "cannot," "it's" means "it is."

It's a shame he couldn't come to the party. (It is a shame he could not come to the party.)

"Its" is a possessive pronoun, to be used when talking about something that belongs to "it."

That milk must be bad; its expiration date was two months ago.

So:

I like that restaurant, but its hours are odd because it's only open from 3 to 7.

How's that? You can easily edit yourself with this.

Its a beautiful day. Do you mean that "it is a beautiful day"? Then this is incorrect.

That car has a dent in it's fender. Do you mean that the car has a dent "in it is fender"? No? Then this is incorrect.

I hope this helps.

Anij

hmmm ... ok - so easy rule:

if when you use "it's" ... it still makes sense if you say "it is" then it's correct - otherwise is it always its ??

so for possessive it doesn't get an apostrophe ? which means it's a different rule than for possessive "sister's" , "house's", "class' " etc ... ???


I know that it's a simple concept ... and that's what drives me batty I think. I grew up oral, and there's not auditory difference (right?) between the two.

It took me forever to learn the difference between "than" and "then" (until my Deaf ASL teacher explained it to me in ASL ... ) - you see "than" and "then" sound identical to me.

Anij

For my Theology classes we make up temporarily (nonce) signs for alot of things ... we simple have to otherwise we'd all go loopy. Seriously you try spelling, or reading stuff like "Schillebeecx" etc for hours at a time!

It works great- as long as I fully understand the concept first !

(am I butting in ??? you'd PM me if I was right ??)

Reba

"Its" is a possessive pronoun. Your examples of "sister's, house's, etc." are nouns in the possessive.

Think of "my" age, "our" age, "her" age, "his" age, "your" age, "their" age, and "its" age. Each word in " " is a possessive pronoun.

"It's", the contraction, belongs with other contractions of "is" and "are" such as "that's", "they're", "we're", "you're", "I'm", "he's", and "she's".

Interpretrator

I hate to say "always" because English is famous for all its exceptions to all its rules, but that's a good rule of thumb. If "it is" doesn't make sense, then don't use the contraction "it's."

"Its" is kind of in a class by itself, but the main thing to remember is, as Reba noted, "its" is a pronoun, which means you should think of it more like "hers" and "theirs" ("That book is hers.") Those don't use apostrophes either.

Anij

thanks to both of you

Etoile

Ariakkas, what grade level are we talking about? I also know signs for noun, verb, etc. but if you have to describe what they are...

shel90

Right now, I am teaching my 3rd graders all these grammatical rules...we just finished an unit on possessive pronouns. Whoa! Talk about confusing a few people even myself! Ha!

English rules are very complex. My students are starting to get the hang of it so hopefully, next year they will be able to use and apply those rules while writing.

If there is a website with the proper signs for all these English rules, pls let me know!

I tend to fingerspell pronoun, adjectives, adverbs and sign noun, verbs, possessive nouns, and proper nouns. As for the other rules, I probably would fingerspell them.

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Ariakkas

college level developmental courses

Chase

Reba and Interpretrator are both correct about "its" and "it's," so I feel a bit foolish about going on and on (as that's what makes student's eyes glaze over).

Sounds defensive, but remember that English teachers and interpreters are pretty much in the same boat. We don't make the rules. The people who speak the language have made them by usage. We just try to explain them.

Teaching apostrophe use is difficult, because (as you've said) the darned mark is used in this case for contractions and possessives. Here are some short memory jogs I've found helpful:

The key is no possessive pronoun ever uses an apostrophe. So its is like his. You wouldn't write "hi's," would you? Likewise its, his, hers, yours, ours, theirs are all in the same class.

The contraction is usually for "it is," and a handy recall tool is saying the apostrophe is like the "i" so "it's" still uses four letters like "it is."

You always put the apostrophe in place of the missing letter(s) or number(s). So another it is is 'tis, as in "'Tis the season to be jolly." Only in this case the first "i" is replaced.

The exception you were looking for is "it has," as in "It's come to my attention that languages can be a puzzle at times."

Chase

Teaching and interpreting the apostrophe would be worlds simpler were it not for all its misuses:

Hat's for sale is not correct. Hats for sale doesn't need an apostrophe.

Likewise the sign saying The Smith's is not correct. Since it means more than one Smith, it is just a simple plural: The Smiths is correct.

She is a child of the 60's is not correct. The missing letters are 19, so the apostrophe should go where it was. She is a child of the '60s is correct.

The mistake is your's is not correct. No pronoun ever uses an apostrophe for possession. The mistake is yours is correct.

T'was the night before Christmas is not correct. The rule is to put the apostrophe where the letter(s) or number(s) is removed. 'Twas the night before Christmas is correct.

Teaching the correct usage would be lots easier if there weren't so many incorrect uses.

Interpretrator

In our class we use the initialized signs for NOUN and VERB with the N or V passing under the chin. We use fingerspelled loan signs (or that's how they've evolved in our class anyway) for ADJ, ADV, PREP, and others. ARTICLE and PRONOUN we spell out, although we also use A/AN for "article."

deafbajagal

Go to Welcome to PEPNet, the Postsecondary Education Programs Network and order (it's free but there's a $5.00 shipping/handling fee): "A Closer Look- Signs for English Composition."

I worked my butt off on creating this CD so I'm very proud of it. Hope it helps with what you need . If you need additional help getting a copy, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

deafbajagal

A wonderful resource for you teachers out there. There are also other subjects, but I only worked on the English one.

Ariakkas

cool, thank you very much )

VamPyroX

That is part of the reason why I think SEE should be used especially during English class when grammar and spelling is involved.

There are a lot of ASL signs that are confusing since they don't always emphasize extras such as plural, possession, etc.

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Interpretrator

I have found SEE to be a lifesaver in both teaching and interpreting ESL and English in those cases. Of course I have to make sure the students understand but most of the time they do, and then you're not fingerspelling until your hand drops off your wrist. (The rest of the time it's ASL.)

I know people think SEE is evil -- we had people in my ITP whining and moaning about having to learn it -- but in an ESL class where the teacher is rattling off different tenses or explaining when to say "I have had...", if the student is okay with it, it's the easiest and fastest way to get the point across.

Every tool in the toolbox is a good tool if someone can benefit from it and others aren't being bludgeoned to death with it.

Reba

deafskeptic

While I find SEE awkward outside class, it comes in useful in ESL and English class -especially when one explains the grammar of the English language.

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Anij

I know this might seem random ... but as I'm reading this post ... I can't help going "OMG I missed SOOOO much being mainstreamed (without support of any kind because I didn't "need it" so they said)


The thing is that in daily life people would never in a million years think that's how I feel ... they see I "talk well" ... and that's all they care about. Even when I write - people would never guess how much time I look at the spellcheck's recommended correction with a completely puzzled look on my face !!!

sorry for the random hajack there ...

deafbajagal

Oh, I totally agree! I've taught English for five years and I found that SEE certainly has its place in my room. I'm so thankful I took the time to learn how to sign SEE II. It came in handy.

It is possible to use ASL to emphasize English rules. For example, let's use the word "jump."

Jump = sign "jump" briefly
jumping = sign "jump" in a continuous manner (like several times, but almost in a circular manner...wish I could do a video to show what I'm talking about!)
jumped = sign "jump" "finished"

After we get this part down, then we discussed the verbs: is/are; was/were; etc. The students will learn which verb is used for singular and plural nouns. That's when we go back to using the ASL format and the students will use structured sentence patterns and watch me sign in ASL: girls three jump finished. They would write: The three girls jumped. If we've managed to talk about the has/had/have verbs, then the sentence pattern will allow the correct one in the sentence.

It is very grueling work to teach d/hh kids English.

I used the Multisensory Grammar method by Suzanne (last name ???) to teach the grits of English grammar...which is using colors, among other visual and hands-on manipulatives for students to grasp understanding of the syntax. I also used Step-Up-To-Writing for the paragraph format and essay style writing. It incorporates colors, pictures, and graphic organziers to help the writing organization process. And for sentence starters or for students who are significantly behind with sentence construction, I pulled out the Fiterzald (not sure of the spelling) Key method.

The students responded VERY well. Of course, it is not fool-proof and there are other things I try to do was well

Bottom line is - there are more ways to teach English than using specific signs; you can use colors, manipulatives, graphic organizers, pictures, drama, etc. to teach the concepts. This is also important because of the different learning styles that the students have.

I know as an interpreter you may not be able to do all of these things but perhaps if there were additional support (such as some of the things I mentioned above) then the student(s) may be able to catch on or have something concrete to use for referencing and understanding.

VamPyroX