Secretblend

After reading this thread, I had a thought. Could it be that things are different for digital because they are building CC into the technology and trying to improve things. Analog was around a long time before they added CC. They had to find a way to make CC work around a technology and they did that by adding the signal onto a line that is not visable on tv. That's why we had problems with them in the past. Now they are changing them to try to make them work better and more in time with dialog on tv. They are just doing it in a way that's so different that it's throwing us off on how to turn it on? Example

CC on analog is built in tv due to law passed few years ago.

now CC is now being decoded by cable box or etc before being delivered to TV. We are so used to turning it on using tv that the new way is throwing us off on how to make it work?

Also because it is new, they are probably experimating at our expense the best way to handle CC or subtitles. As said in last post, give them time.

I would appreicate any thoughts or comments. Like I said, it was just a thought and wanted to put that out. I am not saying I'm right or wrong. Just an observation.

Deafness

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Sparky99

I have a plasma, hooked up with HDMI with both the DirectTV and the DVD player, and both do CC... maybe you have a setting wrong... I know the captions suck on HD right now bec it is a new format, and they are working on fix it... keep complain to FCC, and the cable company, get them to improve.

Banjo

What is the model of your DVD player?

From what I know, the CC signal is stripped through the cable. They designed it to transmit only the video and audio, not a third signal. The only way to get CC is to have a DVD player with a CC decoder built-in, or in the DVR, HDTV receivers, etc.

I have heard that Panasonic DMREZ28, the DVD recorder/player is capable of overlaying the CC signal onto the video signal.

Sparky99

Yes HDMI is only there for 2 signals but CC is required by law to be part of the video signal. It is not and never has been a 3rd signal. according to law: (from the FCC.gov website)

(4) Closed captioning. The visual display of the audio portion of video programming contained in line 21 of the vertical blanking interval (VBI) pursuant to the technical specifications set forth in Section 15.119 of this chapter or the equivalent thereof.

They did this on purpose so it would be stuck inside of the video signal so broadcasters could not use any excuse for not sending through the captions.

Secretblend

So in other words, the caption has to be decoded by whatever is sending the video to television instead of television doing the decoding as in past?

rhr

if DVD Movie with CC support on Blu-Ray Player, avaiable?

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Sparky99

No, it has never changed. The decoding is done by the last item in the chain (in most cases by the TV itself).

Right now I have DishNetwork using their HD receiver, and with that the receiver is the part that decodes the CC, and sends it over the HDMI to the TV. It is not perfect (the SD channels get good CC, but some of the HD channels the CC can be jumpy).

Sparky99

I have yet to not have CC when putting a DVD in my Blu-ray player...

Banjo

Same here, unless you use CyberLink or WinDVD on a computer.

TechBill

True for analog or SDTV

But in HDTV CC is completely different and is in binary format rather than in analog so it is *not* supported in HDMI at all because when they set up the HDMI proctol to standardized it they assumed that the STB's end does the decoding and overlaying on the video instead of the TV itself and did not include the CC to the HDMI supported protocol.

Even on HDTV only way to watch SDTV or Analog programming "line 21" in CC is to use s-video or composite cable which defeats the purpose of owning a HDTV if you couldn't use any upconvert players to play them at higher reslotions. Because line21 is stripped when upcoverted. DVD player need to preserve the line 21 and convert it into a digital CC or overlay them before sending it out via HDMI.

Some HDTV like Vizio is allowing CC pass thur via compoments cables but it still HD to Analog to HD which really not a true HDTV however just as good as it can get.

I am just angry that they have so many bandwidth spaces avaible in HDMI for like broadcast flag or DRM etc to prevent you from copying their movie or show but they don't want to make room for a simple CC and tells the STB or provider it their end that they have to do the decoding .. not the TV end which is pretty stupid IMO. I rather see the DVD distribtors worry about putting CC in it than having cable company or DirectTV or Dish Network try to add the CC with their HDTV shows because it doesn't come with it embedded or they are trying to us it from analog shows and the timings are way OFF too that why you see problem or late CC on HDTV show since they are "borrowing" from the analog SDTV show rather than redoing the CC in HDTV format ie "Digital CC" or DCC




.

CCfan

Same happened to me through the cable line to my HDTV's captioning.
I wish HD captioning should be fixed right away or sooner than later.

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trekwarpspeed

yes it was working. i have LCD 42" widescreen, hook up with dishtv with dvr and HD too...dishtv box come with hdmi to my 42" widescreen. it's has double hdmi and hdmi 2. i was glad everything great with CC.. CNNHD, SICFICHD, and more come with CC perfect whew. i just brought right one 2 years ago.

netrox

So much for HDMI being so advanced in bringing picture clarity with its massive amount of data yet cannot manage to bring a teensy textual data with it?!?!

coolguy1973fla

I used 42" Samsung HDTV with Comcast Sci-Atl HDTV STB and I was turn on CC from Sci-Atl STB through HDMI, I have PS3 Blu-ray drive has built-in Subtitle for the Hearing Impaired

but Samsung 42" has built-in CC (line 21) or Digital CC (EIA-708 customized CC) is only regular cable tv (without STB) or OTA for digital or analog

srchino

I order the service last weekend and to my surprise the captioning wasn't being send from the box to my sony lcd with neither the HDMI nor the 5 wire component that they gave me. Only with a s-video, 3 wire component or coax. Of course I don't get the full high def picture. But I do get CCsI then tried my 1 year old sony dvd player all the component wires (s-video, 3 and 5 wire) and all work just fine. So I'm convinced that the problem is with the box. After a wile of research I managed to access the menu on the box that comes out when its off. I turn on the captions in the box and there they are Closed Captions on all HD channels.

Deafboy51

Hey guys, here's the button sequence to enable Closed Captions on your Time Warner DVR box with HDMI connection to your TV:

"cable" > master power > menu

[yes, you actually turn the cable box off, & then hit menu...]

At this point, on the DVR display itself, "4:3L" appears. If it doesn't, punch "menu" again.

A white screen titled "User Settings" appears. Scroll down to "closed caption" (5 lines down) and push the select button on the remote. Closed Caption status will change from "disabled" to "enabled".

Captions will appear at the top of the tv screen (a bummer) and engaging CC in this way necessitates losing the ability to "rewind" to see what you missed. It's possible that hitting "record" will solve that problem if the DVR will store recordings in "off" mode.