A note about bigotry

I'm not going to pretend this is for everyone. This is because of the recent posts by gnulinuxman. I really can't take it anymore.

All autistic people are useless. All black people are lazy. All deaf people are stupid. All Jews are greedy.

What do you think? Is it okay for me to say this stuff?

OF COURSE NOT.

And yet somehow "Interpreters are money-grubbing incompetents" seems okay for you to say.

I've read a lot of posts on here by deaf people complaining about their experiences with interpreters, or with hearing people in general. This never offends me; in fact, I can learn from it and use it to examine my own behavior and see whether I'm behaving appropriately in either a professional or a personal context.

But you come here and paint all interpreters with your tarred brush and I see no difference between the statements you make and the highly offensive and of course WRONG statements I made at the beginning of this post.

What interpreters do you have experience with? Ones in your city only? Ones in your entire state? Are they educated? What is their background? Have you ever encountered interpreters in other states with different educational levels and backgrounds? Have you encountered ALL of them? No? Then what you are expressing is a level of bigotry and prejudice I have never seen on this board, not even in the heated ASL-vs.-oralism arguments.

For the record, I don't know about your area but educational interpreters in my area get paid SQUAT. I'll fax you my paycheck if you want to see. And I don't supplement my income by doing relay or freelance (except volunteer) because I'm in grad school. I'm living off my savings to do the work I love.

As to competence, you don't have the slightest idea of what being an interpreter means. It isn't only taking words from one language and expressing them in another language. And that's all I need to say about that, Etoile and others having said it better than I could.

Have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Go in to a situation assuming the interpreter will be lazy, useless, incompetent, and whatever else, and guess what? That person is going to pick up on how much you hate her and yeah, she's NOT going to be nice to you. And that's great for you, because it only justifies your narrow-minded views.

Look, I'm sorry you've had poor experiences with interpreters. I think everyone on this board -- hearing and deaf -- has had poor experiences with interpreters, hearing people, and deaf people. But I simply can't take your insulting behavior anymore. I doubt this message will make an ounce of difference so my only choice is to stop reading this forum, which I'd be sad to do but I really don't need your brand of ugliness in my life.

Signed,
Interpretrator

Feel better?

All very important points.

I have met well qualified, professional, passionate interpreters, and I have met those who didn't seem very good at what they did, but overall, I find most interpreters to be caring people. Everyone has a right to earn a living and be paid what they are worth - deaf, hearing, interpreters, everyone. It seems a shame that there would be such backlash.

I have never been fussy about any interpreter so far as getting the message across (not talking about personal traits, "mothering", etc) but that's because I am just this side of not needing an interpreter under most settings and also because I comprehend most sign systems with the unfortunate exception of Cued.

Interpreters, don't take it to heart too much as it relates to the genesis of this topic cuz, after all, your'e talking to a snot-nosed kid.

Excellent post, and you made some very good points. The interpreting profession is, in many ways, just like any other profession. There are people who are extremely skilled and qualified for the job, and others who aren't. Some people are in it for the money, while others have a genuine love for the work they do. There are teachers who are good, and teachers who are bad, but I'd never make a blanket statement such as, "All teachers suck and think they know everything," because I know it's simply not true.

I'm in complete agreement with you on comments about educational interpreting. You really have to love what you do to work for the crap pay that educational interpreteres tend to make. That, or you can't find work elsewhere.

That s something that you can learn and make the change for a better interpreter. Thats the way it works for people to face the reality to improve their interpreting performances. That is what it leads you to be more stronger and try the best of it as you can feel good that u have succeed to help other people in your heart in this society that you need to look at.

One thing is that people broke the violation of ADA laws. So therefore they need to wake up how is it so importance to have the interpreter for the d/Deaf people on the job or wherever. No matter you like it or not! People have no respect for us d/Deafies for years and years that we have to deal with all that hassles, waiting, postone or cancel for the appt that has never get it done sooner because of not providing an interpreter, judge didnt listen or respect or show up on time and etc. It was so unreasonable situation that we have to deal with BS. So you should be glad that you dont have to deal with all that sticky situation that we tolerated with this kind of attitudes that has not changed much. It costs our time, energy, money and pains for years and years. That s full of crap since somebody need to take care of that audist attitude people froom being so self centered all the time as well.

All I can say that I like the interpreter with a deaf heart because they know what deafies wants and the level of understanding how to use the facial and body language in ASL. Also I just dont understand why some interpreters arent really supporting us all along while they are working with us. That's a real conflict issues between the interpreter and a deaf person.

Too many times, I felt insulted that someone hired a new interpreter like a new teacher with no knowledge of ASL and use them in the classroom that I couldnt get the whole picture of whats going with teacher s saying cuz they are using toooooo English or make a gutter sign lanugage. So how do you expect me to shut up about it? while I am trying to learn more education as well as it s my mom s money and grant aid for my education. People need to understand how deafies feel about many things that people should see the other sides of the positive or negative issues. Am I supposed to enjoy my learning process into a Education?? YES but with no need to have all that struggles in school or college because of too many artificial... I dont think it s quite fair for deafies needs. Also they focused on deaf oralism with HA and CI that turns me off because of ratio numbers.. Thats BS because it s my right and d/Deaf people with no or ex HA/ CI. MIND you, audist attitude people.

Also, It doesnt make any sense for us to require to use orally speaking as a functionally oral 100 percent or not have any body language and facial language.. Thats our business to say something about it since it s our true language that helps us understand and have a good communication between Hearing and Deaf people in this society. People dont have any respect for our rights.

So dont take it too personally and put hard on yourself. Try to be openminded and see the reason for us to say something. Also, I have to remind you there is not enough ASL interpreters in this society because SEE is for hearing people to learn that runs into a big problem with deafies.

I am not rich and cannot afford to pay the interpreter all the time. I feel that hearing people should pay for it since they are the barrier of communication with deafies because they dont want to bother or learn ASL. So it snt my fault or to be the blamed after all I did everything that audist attitude gave me or deafies but failed in many ways. So look the truth facts that is all I can say.

So dont take it too personally and put hard on yourself. Try to be openminded and see the reason for us to say something. Also, I have to remind you there is not enough ASL interpreters in this society because SEE an many other artificial languages are for hearing people not d/Deaf people to learn that runs into a big problem with deafies. Thats why it has to be audist attitude s way. That's turns me off since we deafies in Deaf community gave the gifted apprecitation for hearing people to combine with us d/Deafies. We give and dont take it away from you while audist attitude people took away from us d/Deafies and our true languages.

Whats more I am not interested an interpreter know SEE only.. They should know ASL and SE with or without orally speaking that will be equally for everyone in this society not to leave a natural d/Deaf people out of the picture. Thats the problem audist attitude ruin for d/Deaf people with ex HA and CI,

It s very oppression and discrimination that I am seeing almost every day of my life that is not necessary.

Keep your chin up and stay strong!

This is a real wake up calls. I hope u see my whole meaning of what I am trying to say.

Thank you!
Sweetmind

Thanks all for your comments. I'm sorry I blew up like that but sometimes there's only so much you can take.

Sweetmind said:

Thats the way it works for people to face the reality to improve their interpreting performances. ....Try to be openminded and see the reason for us to say something.

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Sweetmind -- I completely agree with you. Like I said, I haven't been offended by any other posts complaining about interpreters or expressing frustration. Why? I haven't seen hate, hate, hate in them. A post like the one you just made DOES make me want to be a better interpreter, because you're expressing frustration and disappointment, not ugliness. I think and hope I've become a better interpreter from having been here and read what everyone, hearing and deaf, has to say about their experiences.

My objection was about one person and the things he chooses to say and the way he chooses to say them.

And incidentally, it is a sad fact that education tends to be the starting point for beginning interpreters, who then move on once they have improved and open the way for more beginners. Many schools don't require certification so it's one of the few places beginning interpreters can find steady work. It's a real problem, but in my area at least, the laws are going to be changing soon.

Here's my 2 cents on the "Interpreters are money-grubbing incompetents"

"money-grubbing" part comes from the high fees they collect to make up for the high fees the interpreters have to pay the certifying organizations like RID and so forth to keep their interpreting qualifications.

"incompetents" come from the fact that interpreters are getting level 5's when theyre actually level 1's and thats due to the possibility of interpreters being judged based on their social positions within the deaf communities than their interpreting skills. I've seen a Level 5 terp get a level 1 because she wasnt well liked by the ASL militants.

Richard

Nesmuth said:

Here's my 2 cents on the "Interpreters are money-grubbing incompetents"

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I don't think I'll take those two cents, thanks. Generalizations like those are exactly what I'm talking about. How about "the high fees SOME interpreters collect"? How about "the fact that SOME interpreters are getting level 5's when theyre [sic] actually level 1's"?

:bsflag: ASL MILITANT is your own negative view of ASL people that makes a very negative outlook about our natural true language by audist attitude people in many ways.

Read this term of defination: combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods : an uprising by militant Islamic fundamentalists. noun a person who is active in this way.

I am sorry I do not see this way since I was deaf oralist and using oral method with my family/ relatives and /oral method and artificital languages only classrooms for many years until I found my true identity that wakes me up and see the real things around me and many deafies serious problem that has NOT solved the problems yet.. So I am the supporter of ASL because I have witnessed how I succeed with my hearng children and Deaf children s happiness and less frustrated without being forced a chlid for not who or what they are. So be it!

Thats far from it for us ASlers and our ASL supporter with a very positive attitude that we deafies gave the gifted apprecitation to have a good relationship with Hearing/ Disabilities/ Animals/ d/Deaf children 's rights that you can name it. Thats the problem you have a very very negative view of our deafness and true language .. Look at yourself as a traitor as many deafies are not happy and angry or know it all that screwed d/Deaf children s rights and true language for a good Education instead of putting them struggle for what audist attitude people wants them to do like a functioially hearing child. That is a real sicko mind I ever know!

So Is this your version of the "Aryan Race" the perfect race of people?". Like this:

Deaf -----> Functionally hearing
oral method----> forbidden sign language
ADA laws-------> Violation the laws and getting more discrimination and oppression on our Deaf rights.
disability--------> triple disabilities
etc etc and you name it all and think of the opposite side for what audist attitude did to us and d/Deaf chlidren. If you mind!

That is not helpful from those audist attitude people who believes in oral method only or forced them to wear HA or CI after all you make things worse for every deafies who doesnt realize it. I have already seen it for so many years that I couldnt walk away. I have my strongest belief that is d/Deaf children have the right to be who they are and feel comfortable with their hands with or without orally speaking. Thats a choice and It is Okay!!


NO more Deaf Indians, No more Deaf Mental Challengers, No more Deaf Qualergi sp?, NO more d/Deaf blind, NO more d/Deafchildren, No more Deaf Mental Illness, NO more Deaf Black , NO more Deaf white people, No more Deaf women, No more and you name it all. So are you telling me that we must be destroyed by audist attitude people in their own fricky hearing world. HECK NO! TOO many mistakes that they have made for so many years because they are focused on MONEY ISSUES and CONTROL/POWER to destroy our gifted tools for all of us to communicate into a diversity world. All I am seeing that we CANT CANT CANT CANT all along after we did worked so hard to learn how to speak our Deaf voices and English Written. We cannot even express our true feelings for years and years. Guess what I am not gonna to kiss your feet for a wrong reason to hurt d/Deaf children s true identity and true language that we deafies can feel freely to live in this earth.

We are the part of Deaf community that is because we are different from you since we are using our hands to communicate with that works very well.


If it was not Deaf community then we wil be in a big deadmeat. Think twice and think of other people who lost their hearing, deal with isolation, neglect our needs and importance key of communications You are destroying Both sides in this diversity world.

Thats ORALISM MILITANTS fits yours as well. Ha / CI users are NOT functionally hearing if you dont mind. They faced the same problem we have. So there! That's very self centered and for yourself only.

So what is your point to have this term ASL Mililants. It doesnt fit our image of ASL supporters if you dont mind. Deafies in the past and today's d/Deaf people 's invention or ideas that makes a lot of differences and make our achievement to improve d/Deaf children s education while audist attitude took over and look it s a real mess that is still contiuning the very severe problem for Deaf community todays.


I feel we have the right to put the positive outlook about Hearing or d/Deaf

ASL Supporters who support the education to have ASL for the d/Deaf children 's right that works very well for everyone including Hearing and Deaf disabilities people that should NOT be out of the picture in this society if you mind.

Thank you!

Sweetmind

Militants was probably not the best term to use, I can think of some others that would have been better. But I think making a Hitler reference is really out of place here. It would have been much better to say "so in your perfect world" instead of "your version of the Aryan race." The Holocaust and Hitler has no place in this discussion. :thumbd:

So Is this your version of the "Aryan Race" the perfect race of people?". Like this:

Deaf -----> Functionally hearing
oral method----> forbidden sign language
ADA laws-------> Violation the laws and getting more discrimination and oppression on our Deaf rights.
disability--------> triple disabilities
etc etc and you name it all and think of the opposite side for what audist attitude did to us and d/Deaf chlidren. If you mind!

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All people should have the right to use whatever method of communication they are comfortable with. There should be no expected way to communicate. Especially with children, it is unfair that ones parents decide how they should communicate. Different languages exist because different cultures developed their own methods of communication. To cut deaf people off of using their hands to communicate is the same as telling a spanish speaking individual to learn English because otherwise they wont be able to communicate and it is no ones fault but their own. This is cruel and unfair to anyone that has a different way fo communicating to the rest of the world.

Deaf community has all kind of cultures itself for d/Deaf people.. So therefore we have Deaf cultures. Thats our positive outlook of our deafness everywhere in every countries that we d/Deaf people exists and much alive in this world.

Thank you!

Sweetmind

Sweetmind -- I completely agree with you. Like I said, I haven't been offended by any other posts complaining about interpreters or expressing frustration. Why? I haven't seen hate, hate, hate in them. A post like the one you just made DOES make me want to be a better interpreter, because you're expressing frustration and disappointment, not ugliness. I think and hope I've become a better interpreter from having been here and read what everyone, hearing and deaf, has to say about their experiences.

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Thank you! I care with all my heart that we need to work together as teamwork. Thats how it should be this way and help others to understand the deaf issues. Thats how I became friends with hearing / d/Deaf all along as a one circle and have many hands to be hold together across the countries.

My objection was about one person and the things he chooses to say and the way he chooses to say them.

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I understand how you feel. However he told the truth but there is nothing I can do about his nasty mouthy. I just ignored that part but the problem has been going on and on for years that has not change yet.

And incidentally, it is a sad fact that education tends to be the starting point for beginning interpreters, who then move on once they have improved and open the way for more beginners. Many schools don't require certification so it's one of the few places beginning interpreters can find steady work. It's a real problem, but in my area at least, the laws are going to be changing soon.

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Thats absouletly right! Many parents doesnt realized that we received too many artificial sign languages to become more complicated for their each d/Deaf child which is so sad. It surely affects d/Deaf children s Education badly in many ways. Also leave them isolation in the classroom or outside of school as of I have listened to some deafies with or without HA or CI stories from mainstream as well.

Anyway, One thing is that I dont agree to keep separate between d/Deaf people and Interpreters from the outside of school or jobs.. The reason is that it snt going to help interpreter to become a good interpreter while they just learned SEE. How can they learn to use their receptive eyes and ASL with others? Thats why I feel Interpreter and d/Deaf people have their rights to make a friend anytime beside in school or college or court or whereever it s. I do understand about Ethic of code that relates on the job itself that I respect that very much.

Thats only way for the interpreter learn how to use the receptive eyes and practice with their hands and without depends on their ears or thinking of English only that will help you to become more skills on your eyes and ASL.

Have a wonderful day!

Sweetmind

Nesmuth said:

"money-grubbing" part comes from the high fees they collect to make up for the high fees the interpreters have to pay the certifying organizations like RID and so forth to keep their interpreting qualifications.

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I disagree with your line of thinking. The high fees, I strongly suspect, is simply due to the economics of low supply and high demand. If more and more interpreters join the profession and demand softens, the fees should go down. While sign language interpreting will never be a 'commoditized' service, local and regional variations also figure into the fee structure.

Then there's the 'overhead' such interpreters need to capture into their fees such as health care/disability insurance, gas/auto costs, CEU's, etc.

"incompetents" come from the fact that interpreters are getting level 5's when theyre actually level 1's and thats due to the possibility of interpreters being judged based on their social positions within the deaf communities than their interpreting skills. I've seen a Level 5 terp get a level 1 because she wasnt well liked by the ASL militants.

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Well, it doesn't sound plausible. Have you ever participated in the NAD interpreting committees in CA and have you ever scored prospective interpreters? From what I understand, the rating process is pretty much neutral & impartial. I even heard of one rater dropping out of evaluating a particular candidate because she knew him (both were CODA's growing up together, I think.).

Granted, this is one area, certfication, is what I really don't know much about. Before you interpreters pounce in, I'd really rather not know too much about the process! Rest assured, I place my faith and trust in the relevant certifying authorities to duly certify ASL interpreters with correct levels and qualifications.

ayala920 said:

I'm in complete agreement with you on comments about educational interpreting. You really have to love what you do to work for the crap pay that educational interpreteres tend to make. That, or you can't find work elsewhere.

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Thanks to the Rowley case decided in 1982, school systems only have to provide a 'floor' in meeting a student's FAPE needs. Unfortunately, this extends to ASL interpreting, varying quality of such interpreting, and low pay rates. Moreover, to compound on this problem, when these interpreters become better in their skillset, they move onto the private sector w/ better opportunities and pay.

Later this week, the FAD will stage a rally in support of Bill S 2592 being floated in Florida's legislature. If the bill passes, this will force school districts statewide to actually improve the educational interpreting standards for Deaf/HH students. So, things are improving for the communicative needs of the Deaf/HH students in mainstream classes.

Interpretrator said:

I'm not going to pretend this is for everyone. This is because of the recent posts by gnulinuxman. I really can't take it anymore.

All autistic people are useless. All black people are lazy. All deaf people are stupid. All Jews are greedy.

What do you think? Is it okay for me to say this stuff?

OF COURSE NOT.

And yet somehow "Interpreters are money-grubbing incompetents" seems okay for you to say.

I've read a lot of posts on here by deaf people complaining about their experiences with interpreters, or with hearing people in general. This never offends me; in fact, I can learn from it and use it to examine my own behavior and see whether I'm behaving appropriately in either a professional or a personal context.

But you come here and paint all interpreters with your tarred brush and I see no difference between the statements you make and the highly offensive and of course WRONG statements I made at the beginning of this post.

What interpreters do you have experience with? Ones in your city only? Ones in your entire state? Are they educated? What is their background? Have you ever encountered interpreters in other states with different educational levels and backgrounds? Have you encountered ALL of them? No? Then what you are expressing is a level of bigotry and prejudice I have never seen on this board, not even in the heated ASL-vs.-oralism arguments.

For the record, I don't know about your area but educational interpreters in my area get paid SQUAT. I'll fax you my paycheck if you want to see. And I don't supplement my income by doing relay or freelance (except volunteer) because I'm in grad school. I'm living off my savings to do the work I love.

As to competence, you don't have the slightest idea of what being an interpreter means. It isn't only taking words from one language and expressing them in another language. And that's all I need to say about that, Etoile and others having said it better than I could.

Have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Go in to a situation assuming the interpreter will be lazy, useless, incompetent, and whatever else, and guess what? That person is going to pick up on how much you hate her and yeah, she's NOT going to be nice to you. And that's great for you, because it only justifies your narrow-minded views.

Look, I'm sorry you've had poor experiences with interpreters. I think everyone on this board -- hearing and deaf -- has had poor experiences with interpreters, hearing people, and deaf people. But I simply can't take your insulting behavior anymore. I doubt this message will make an ounce of difference so my only choice is to stop reading this forum, which I'd be sad to do but I really don't need your brand of ugliness in my life.

Signed,
Interpretrator

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Apparently, you have a reading problem because I didn't say ALL interpreters are. I said SOME. But you undermine the number of problems these bad interpreters cause.

My fiancee and I do know SEVERAL REALLY GOOD INTERPRETERS. However, you don't see that I've said so in some of my posts. So I'm making it clear to you.

gnulinuxman said:

Apparently, you have a reading problem because I didn't say ALL interpreters are. I said SOME. But you undermine the number of problems these bad interpreters cause.

My fiancee and I do know SEVERAL REALLY GOOD INTERPRETERS. However, you don't see that I've said so in some of my posts. So I'm making it clear to you.

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Agreed....Look at the Darn post first be4 replying, I read carefully and I am sure most of you do.

Deaflinuxgeek

Standing up for one's fiancé is one thing, but forming a little Mutual Appreciation Society is something else. :roll:

Eyeth said:

Moreover, to compound on this problem, when these interpreters become better in their skillset, they move onto the private sector w/ better opportunities and pay.

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Very true. Although some very skilled and experienced interpreters I know still work in the educational setting while also working in freelance and relay to make up for the pay discrepancy, so that's good to see.

Eyeth said:

If the bill passes, this will force school districts statewide to actually improve the educational interpreting standards for Deaf/HH students. So, things are improving for the communicative needs of the Deaf/HH students in mainstream classes.

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I'm curious, do these laws you're talking about apply to K-12, post-secondary, or both? It seems that the tide is turning all over the place in terms of standards being raised in educational interpreting, which is great. It will be harder for new interpreters in the future, but at the same time I've also noticed an increase in mentoring programs in my area, which maybe can help fill that experience gap.