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deafbillsmom 02-04-2011 08:21 AM

FBI violated my son's ADA rights
 
Hi! I'm a hearing mom of a deaf son. He committed a crime and is waiting to be sent to Federal prison.
The FBI came to his apartment and took his computer, but didn't have an interpreter with them. You know with all the SSI records, they KNEW he was deaf - they even printed out his Miranda rights! So why wouldn't they have an interpreter?

He admits he did what he did, but he wants the FBI to have to pay for what they did - or didn't do.

Can anyone give me some advise?

Thanks!

radioman 02-04-2011 09:45 AM

first thing you need to do is talk to YOUR lawyer for advice.

The rest is speculation so please nobody flame me as I am not experienced in any of this. I'd say that they must've had experience arresting deaf person before since they printed the miranda- on the other hand, they probably always have a copy with them since it must be worded word for word or they will lost case.

Do you know if they have a sign terp in the interrogation room ? Was there any other issues like refusal to do paper form of communication by them? etc, etc.

marcyp06 02-04-2011 12:09 PM

I know the cops here arent required to have a terp, they can offer written communication if they are going to arrest you. Could be the same with a warrant. Look into it tho for sure, talk to a lawyer with experience in the same area.

Glenn 02-04-2011 12:13 PM

ADA lawyers aren't as common as you might think. Contact NAD and they might be able to refer you to one if you want to go that route.

Reba 02-04-2011 05:12 PM

I'm not sure an interpreter is required for a search warrant. A search warrant can be executed even if no one is present. It doesn't require permission from the people who are present.

How to Execute a Search Warrant | eHow.com

Reba 02-04-2011 05:14 PM

It would seem that if the FBI acquired the evidence wrongfully, the defendant's lawyer would have used that at trial in order to disallow the evidence. If the lawyer did not do that, then it seems that the warrant was executed correctly.

deafbillsmom 02-09-2011 10:22 AM

Thanks for all the feedback and advice. I'll copy all the responses and send them on to my son. I appreciate your time!!

Jiro 02-09-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom (Post 1764522)
You know with all the SSI records, they KNEW he was deaf - they even printed out his Miranda rights!

FBI has complied with your son's ADA rights.

deafbillsmom 02-09-2011 11:20 AM

::: SIGH ::: Thanks for your input, Jiro and all. We're just grabbing at straws at this point. Another issue is that he is being denied access to the use of a TTY in the state jail. I KNOW that's illegal!
I appreciate all your thoughts.

Jiro 02-09-2011 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom (Post 1766556)
::: SIGH ::: Thanks for your input, Jiro and all. We're just grabbing at straws at this point. Another issue is that he is being denied access to the use of a TTY in the state jail. I KNOW that's illegal!
I appreciate all your thoughts.

I'm sorry but it sounds as if you're trying to find anything in this forum to get him off the hook by pointing out some ADA violation... good luck.

Getting arrested by FBI and having his computer confiscated? Sounds like pedophile case? cyber stalking/bullying? fraud? Sounds like something serious so get a lawyer. seek legal advice from a lawyer, not forum. good luck.

deafbillsmom 02-09-2011 11:39 AM

Hi. Yes - that's it.... pornography. I honestly don't think there's much we can do, but I'm not about to take away his hope. He asked me to post to get ideas, so that's what I did. He has already been sentenced. He's in the north awaiting transport to a federal prison in the south, but the snows keep coming. I understand the TTY question is entirely separate - it's just another problem for deaf prisoners. Since he has to be on the inside, at least he should be able to communicate. This part is a Civil Rights issue - won't do anything to his Federal sentence.

Beowulf 02-09-2011 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom (Post 1766564)
Hi. Yes - that's it.... pornography. I honestly don't think there's much we can do, but I'm not about to take away his hope. He asked me to post to get ideas, so that's what I did. He has already been sentenced. He's in the north awaiting transport to a federal prison in the south, but the snows keep coming. I understand the TTY question is entirely separate - it's just another problem for deaf prisoners. Since he has to be on the inside, at least he should be able to communicate. This part is a Civil Rights issue - won't do anything to his Federal sentence.

The only advice I can offer you is to tell your son to keep the reason for his incarceration a secret. Heck, if the others think that he is there for assaulting a police officer, he will have an easier time. I wish him good luck, and tell him to watch who he hangs around with.

Anij 02-09-2011 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom (Post 1766564)
Hi. Yes - that's it.... pornography. I honestly don't think there's much we can do, but I'm not about to take away his hope. He asked me to post to get ideas, so that's what I did. He has already been sentenced. He's in the north awaiting transport to a federal prison in the south, but the snows keep coming. I understand the TTY question is entirely separate - it's just another problem for deaf prisoners. Since he has to be on the inside, at least he should be able to communicate. This part is a Civil Rights issue - won't do anything to his Federal sentence.

Not that it's any of our business, but since you mentioned it ... this is a case of adult pornography - or child pornography ??

I'll defend someone's right to watch sexual acts of consenting adults but if this is a child pornography case - not only does it make me physically sick, I cannot fathom how a parent could "defend" or want to give "hope" to someone who personally takes advantage of ,abuses and violates children or watches others do so and gets pleasure from it. If they're pulling computers, it's not as if he "accidentally watched some underage porn, where the person was 17, not 18/21" ... it means there's likely thousands of pictures and videos of innocent little children who've been bullied/brainwashed into performing sexual acts for adults ... that's just revolting.

Pedophiles are sick sick people - and honestly, I'm relieved that the FBI was able to get another one of them away from society.

I understand as a parent it hurts that your child is in jail - however if this is kiddie-porn, then I'd urge you to picture how you'd feel if someone had taken your 3-8 year old son and forced him to have sexual contact with other children or adults ... how angry, upset, violated you'd feel yourself and how terrified you'd feel about what it "did" physically and emotionally/physiologically to your child

jillio 02-09-2011 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioman (Post 1764532)
first thing you need to do is talk to YOUR lawyer for advice.

The rest is speculation so please nobody flame me as I am not experienced in any of this. I'd say that they must've had experience arresting deaf person before since they printed the miranda- on the other hand, they probably always have a copy with them since it must be worded word for word or they will lost case.

Do you know if they have a sign terp in the interrogation room ? Was there any other issues like refusal to do paper form of communication by them? etc, etc.

They are only required to have a terp in the interrogation room if the defendent's attorney has requested one. Normally a request from the defendent himself has not followed proper procedure and will be ignored. They do not have to have a terp during an arrest or a search. A case can be lost if someone claims not to have been "Mirandized" and therefore, there is always a print copy immediately available to the officers in the case of a deaf perpetrator.

jillio 02-09-2011 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn (Post 1764602)
ADA lawyers aren't as common as you might think. Contact NAD and they might be able to refer you to one if you want to go that route.

NAD staff attorneys will review the case as she communicates it to them, and advise her as to which direction to go. That would be my recommendation, as well. And, if there is not a case, they will also tell her that and prevent her from dropping a ton of money on an attorney just to find out that procedure was followed.

Jiro 02-09-2011 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom (Post 1766564)
Hi. Yes - that's it.... pornography. I honestly don't think there's much we can do, but I'm not about to take away his hope. He asked me to post to get ideas, so that's what I did. He has already been sentenced. He's in the north awaiting transport to a federal prison in the south, but the snows keep coming. I understand the TTY question is entirely separate - it's just another problem for deaf prisoners. Since he has to be on the inside, at least he should be able to communicate. This part is a Civil Rights issue - won't do anything to his Federal sentence.

He's already been sentenced? So that means the trial's over?

and yes you're right - there's not much you can do now. He's had his day at court and he was found guilty of child pornography. Now he has to serve his sentence.

I understand that no parents would want to see their child going to prison but in order for you to move on and to cope with it, you have to accept it and understand that your son has to pay for his crime. I don't know the detail of his crime but I'll assume he merely viewed child pornography from his computer. You do not have to explain because it's not important.

As long as he maintains a good behavior and all... he can get a probation and be released from prison early for good behavior. Meanwhile - your son will be having a lot of time on his hand. Your son needs to stop wasting his time with getting out of jail by trying to find some ADA violation. Please tell him to use his time wisely and make a good use of prison library. Take educational courses too if prison offers it (ie. GED if your son never finishes high school).

posts from hell 02-09-2011 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio (Post 1766623)
NAD staff attorneys will review the case as she communicates it to them, and advise her as to which direction to go. That would be my recommendation, as well. And, if there is not a case, they will also tell her that and prevent her from dropping a ton of money on an attorney just to find out that procedure was followed.

From what I read, it looks like procedure was followed. The judge threw that adage out.

jillio 02-09-2011 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell (Post 1766640)
From what I read, it looks like procedure was followed. The judge threw that adage out.

That was my take on it, too. Looks like a case of using deafness to justify criminal behavior.

posts from hell 02-09-2011 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio (Post 1766655)
That was my take on it, too. Looks like a case of using deafness to justify criminal behavior.

Yeah....

A few credits away from a Masters, and claims not to know that it was illegal...

The only problem I have with this is.. he's 60?

whatdidyousay! 02-09-2011 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcyp06 (Post 1764599)
I know the cops here arent required to have a terp, they can offer written communication if they are going to arrest you. Could be the same with a warrant. Look into it tho for sure, talk to a lawyer with experience in the same area.

Cops can't use anything against deaf or HOH if they not have an interpreter at the time of arrest!
The OP need to talk a lawyer that understand the ADA Act.

Oceanbreeze 02-09-2011 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay! (Post 1766833)
Cops can't use anything against deaf or HOH if they not have an interpreter at the time of arrest!
The OP need to talk a lawyer that understand the ADA Act.

He's already been tried and convicted. They're going to have a rough time trying to prove his rights were violated at the time of arrest.

But, yes, the place to start is with a damn good lawyer who understands the ADA law.

jillio 02-10-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay! (Post 1766833)
Cops can't use anything against deaf or HOH if they not have an interpreter at the time of arrest!
The OP need to talk a lawyer that understand the ADA Act.

That is not entirely correct.

Oceanbreeze 02-10-2011 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio (Post 1767018)
That is not entirely correct.

It didn't sound correct. It sounds like this person's rights weren't violated. It also sounds like the Mom is just grasping at straws to try and help her son. I can understand that, but given that the son has already been tried and convicted of federal crimes, it's going to be really hard to challenge anything; especially if they're trying to say that his rights were violated at the time of arrest.

Personally, I don't know what I'd do; probably what this woman is doing. He's her child. However, reality dictates that she needs to put her energies towards helping her son cope with what is before him instead of promoting his fantasy that he can still get out of this. Obviously, the son messed up on a grand scale. He did the crime, he should do the time.....gracefully. Then, when he gets out, try to rebuild his life.

Jiro 02-10-2011 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay! (Post 1766833)
Cops can't use anything against deaf or HOH if they not have an interpreter at the time of arrest!
The OP need to talk a lawyer that understand the ADA Act.

1. Cops do not use anything against the suspects... prosecutors do and the suspect is within his rights to defend himself at the court. Also - the suspect is within his rights to forfeit the trial by entering guilty plea in exchange of reduced sentence or whatever the plea bargain he made with the prosecutor.

2. If the deaf/HOH is being arrested, it's because of criminal offense he has already committed and there is an arrest warrant issued for him. deaf/HOH does not need a terp to commit a crime nor to get arrested. Terp must be provided for if requested for interrogation at police station and his court hearings. As long as the arrestee is informed of his Miranda Rights in any way, shape, or form... his Constitutional and ADA rights are not being violated.

3. I dunno

jillio 02-11-2011 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze (Post 1767067)
It didn't sound correct. It sounds like this person's rights weren't violated. It also sounds like the Mom is just grasping at straws to try and help her son. I can understand that, but given that the son has already been tried and convicted of federal crimes, it's going to be really hard to challenge anything; especially if they're trying to say that his rights were violated at the time of arrest.

Personally, I don't know what I'd do; probably what this woman is doing. He's her child. However, reality dictates that she needs to put her energies towards helping her son cope with what is before him instead of promoting his fantasy that he can still get out of this. Obviously, the son messed up on a grand scale. He did the crime, he should do the time.....gracefully. Then, when he gets out, try to rebuild his life.

Exactly. Obviously the son has some issues, and has been found guilty of a crime as a result. If she wants to help him, she will communicate to him that when you commit a crime and are caught, you must accept the punishment. That is inherent in deciding to engage in criminal behavior. If the punishment isn't worth the crime, then it is time to ask for help and learn some coping skills that will prevent the behavior in the future. Tough love. A case of "I love you, son, but I cannot accept this behavior. I will do anything I can to help you change, but if you continue this way, there is nothing I can do for you." It sounds like it is far past time for this guy to take responsibility for himself and his poor choices.

webexplorer 02-11-2011 02:26 PM

Oh boy. I am sorry about your situation. I read other website - a vblog commentator about deaf prisoners in Texas as a special unit. That's a federal prison which is better than a state prison because of a fewer accesses for deaf equipment/probably interpreters than none in state... very scary. I know federal and state are very different - for example, white and blue collars.

(Excuse me, it is a little bit hard for me to understand her sign language.)

Here is the source:

Oceanbreeze 02-11-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webexplorer (Post 1767542)
Oh boy. I am sorry about your situation. I read other website - a vblog commentator about deaf prisoners in Texas as a special unit. That's a federal prison which is better than a state prison because of a fewer accesses for deaf equipment/probably interpreters than none in state... very scary. I know federal and state are very different - for example, white and blue collars.

(Excuse me, it is a little bit hard for me to understand her sign language.)

Here is the source: YouTube - the Horror of being Deaf and in Prison

Start a hew thread with this, WE.

The person in question here was tried and convicted of Federal pornography charges. This Mother feels sorry for this man and was trying to find ways to get him out of this. She'll need to contact a lawyer, but it really sounds like the person's rights weren't violated. There's been no abuse, so this point is moot.

What this guy needs to do is accept that he committed a crime and will be doing a pretty good stint in a Federal prison cell. That's too bad, but if he wanted to stay clear of all this, he shouldn't have broken the law.

Beowulf 02-11-2011 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webexplorer (Post 1767542)
Oh boy. I am sorry about your situation. I read other website - a vblog commentator about deaf prisoners in Texas as a special unit. That's a federal prison which is better than a state prison because of a fewer accesses for deaf equipment/probably interpreters than none in state... very scary. I know federal and state are very different - for example, white and blue collars.

(Excuse me, it is a little bit hard for me to understand her sign language.)

Here is the source: YouTube - the Horror of being Deaf and in Prison

Good video, webexplorer. She is correct that in prisons, the deaf are left on their own when it comes to hearing and understanding announcements over the loudspeakers. However, if a deaf person asks other inmates for help in that area, all too often it translates into forced sexual favors. It is horrible. I like the idea of having Deaf prisons staffed with qualified professionals who understand deaf culture, counselors who sign, etc. It is so easy to set up and will save taxpayers far more money than they can imagine, since I am convinced the number of repeat offenders will be greatly reduced.

rolling7 02-12-2011 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio (Post 1767018)
That is not entirely correct.

Has anyone given consideration to a deaf person who can neither read nor write English and has no terp.? How then is that deaf person's Miranda rights given? Also, there is a problem with the search warrant being "good" if the person can not read it.

Glenn 02-12-2011 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7 (Post 1767907)
Has anyone given consideration to a deaf person who can neither read nor write English and has no terp.? How then is that deaf person's Miranda rights given? Also, there is a problem with the search warrant being "good" if the person can not read it.

What is that deaf person's main communication mode?

I would say that a deaf person who can neither read or write English would have to be fairly rare in the English-speaking world.


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