FBI violated my son's ADA rights - Page 6

jazzy · 02-13-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I'm talking about adults who can barely print their own names, and can read nothing. They can copy an address or memorize a phone number but that's about it. They can't fingerspell either except for names.

They don't have HS diplomas.

They don't use computers, text phones, or TTY. They can't read captions.

People do fall thru the cracks.

Yeah i used to work with those deaf people.... So many deaf students did not pass exit exam here in Calif. They never got HS diplomas.

Steinhauer · 02-13-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Your posted definition states that:

"pedophilia n. an obsession with children as sex objects."

Pedophilia is defined by the obsession, not the action.

"Overt acts, including taking sexual explicit photographs, molesting children, and exposing one's genitalia to children are all crimes. The problem with these crimes is that pedophilia is also treated as a mental illness, and the pedophile is often released only to repeat the crimes or escalate the activity to the level of murder. (See: molestation, rape, pornography)"

The overt acts of the pedophile put him into the legal jurisdiction.

However, by the definition, a person is a pedophile because of his obsession, not because of overt actions.

He isn't prosecuted for his obsession but for his actions.

The obsession that causes them to act on their urges maybe? That was how I read the definition.

Steinhauer · 02-13-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Steinhauer - I am giving you examples of ACTUAL cases that ACTUALLY happened and I want to see your opinion on it.

1. Roman Polanski, a film director, plead guilty to unlawful sex with a minor (but nobody was hurt or rape. it was "consensual"). Is he a pedophile?

Yes, he acted on his urges and molested a minor

2. Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her home at age 14 years old. She was held against her will at kidnapper's house for nine months and she was repeatedly raped for months. Is he a pedophile?

a pedophile, stalker,kidnapper and rapist

3. My high school vice principal was arrested for possession of child pornography in his computer at high school and also a pipe with marijuana in his drawer. He had thousands and thousands of photos and videos of minors engaging in sex. However, he had never hurt or raped a child. Is he a pedophile?

no - he has a sick obsession with child pornography

4. Phillip Greaves wrote a how-to guide called "The Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: A Child-Lover's Code of Conduct". But He never had sex with a child. Is he a pedophile?

no - he is a book author

5. Jack McCellan had never molested a child but he blogged about his attraction to young girls. He posted photos of children in public places and he discussed about how he like to stake out the public places where girls are at. Is he a pedophile?

Yes, he physically took sexually explicit photographs of minors and distributed them

Please, for the love of God... answer my questions with a yes or no and nothing else. I'm not interested in your verbose statements because most of time - it's irrelevant and unrelated to this very post. I'm specifically interested in either "YES" or "NO" to each of five cases that actually happened. I hope you can follow this simple instruction.

I am not interested in your misrepresentation of facts. You repeatedly throw in your own implications and misrepresent what was actually stated. You do this time and again and every time I call you on it you make offensive remarks as if that corrects the problem.

It doesn't.

Here is another question for you ... your roommate in college has an obsession with bondage porn - does that make him a kidnapping rapist? Or does that make him someone with an obsession for porn?

**Reba** · 02-13-2011, 02:18 PM

"Pedophilia is a clinical term, describing the condition of a person who has had reoccurring, arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activities with prepubescent children ( age 13 or younger ). This condition must haven been present for at least 6 months in order to be categorized as a pedophile. Pedophiles don’t necessarily have to act upon their urges and fantasies and might live their entire life not even touching one child. Child molesters act upon their urges and therefore commit a crime every time they touch a child in an inappropriate manner. Simply stated, not every pedophile is a child molester but every child molester is pedophile – a pedophile gone to the next level."
Child Molestation Laws - State Resources | Lawyers and Attorneys for Defense or Prosecution | ChildMolestationLaws.com

**Beowulf** · 02-13-2011, 02:23 PM

Hmmmm, I wonder how many more prisons we will need to build in order to lock up every "pedophile" in this country.

jillio · 02-13-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I have met several.

I am sorry to hear that. I have no doubt that it still occurs, but the majority of my contact is with school aged and college aged people. While I often see serious delays, I have never seen one that is completely unable to read and/or write. Thank goodness.

jillio · 02-13-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Excuse me for butting in but I believe that the statutory rape charge doesn't apply when both parties are under age and are the same age. Therefor, they wouldn't be required to register as sex offenders.

Secondly, Charles Manson will never be released on parole.

In order to be a hypothetical question it has to be based on some sort of realistic circumstances.

Exactly.

jillio · 02-13-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

You might want to check with the Adult Parole Authority on that one. I don't believe that your information is correct.

jillio · 02-13-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

According to your posted definition, a pedophile is someone who has:

"an obsession with children as sex objects"

So, the OP's son could be a pedophile even if he hasn't committed an overt action directly against a child.

As far as the law is concerned though, he was arrested for possession of child pornography. That is illegal whether or not the possessor is a pedophile. One can be arrested for possession and/or distribution even if it was strictly for profit and not pleasure.

Exactly. One cannot be arrested for having an obsession. One must have committed an illegal act in order to be arrested.

jillio · 02-13-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

The obsession that causes them to act on their urges maybe? That was how I read the definition.

Obsessions are not compulsions. Compulsions are behaviors. Obsessions are thoughts. People every day experience obsessions without compulsions.

jillio · 02-13-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I am not interested in your misrepresentation of facts. You repeatedly throw in your own implications and misrepresent what was actually stated. You do this time and again and every time I call you on it you make offensive remarks as if that corrects the problem.

It doesn't.

Here is another question for you ... your roommate in college has an obsession with bondage porn - does that make him a kidnapping rapist? Or does that make him someone with an obsession for porn?

Nearly all of your answers in red are in error.

jillio · 02-13-2011, 02:55 PM

Pedophillia is not a crime. It is a mental health diagnosis of the sexual dysfunction type.

Sex with a minor is a crime. One can have sex with a minor and not be a pedophilliac. Likewise, one can be diagnosed with pedophillia and be completely celebate, or limit sexual contact to adults.

**Jiro** · 02-13-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I am not interested in your misrepresentation of facts. You repeatedly throw in your own implications and misrepresent what was actually stated. You do this time and again and every time I call you on it you make offensive remarks as if that corrects the problem.

It doesn't.

Now you have another ADer telling you that your post is erroneous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Here is another question for you ... your roommate in college has an obsession with bondage porn - does that make him a kidnapping rapist? Or does that make him someone with an obsession for porn?

why are you asking me same question again? I've already answered your question many times. My latest answer's in my post #137 so I'll repost my answer

Watching porn is NOT illegal.
Watching child porn is illegal.

what part of it do you not understand?

**Jiro** · 02-13-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Yes, he acted on his urges and molested a minor

ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

a pedophile, stalker,kidnapper and rapist

why such a harsh label? and I thought you wanted to help him because he is "sick"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

no - he has a sick obsession with child pornography

why such a harsh label? and I thought you wanted to help him because he is "sick"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

no - he is a book author

so I take it that you're ok with author writing "how-to guide" on bomb/IED to be used on American soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, correct because it doesn't make him a terrorist since he never killed the American with his bomb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Yes, he physically took sexually explicit photographs of minors and distributed them

he never took sexually-explicit photographs. I said he took a photos of children in public places.

deafbillsmom · 02-13-2011, 05:02 PM

OK - before I leave this forum - I'll get some things out on the table.

1) My son did what he did - he sentence was just. He deserves to do time. To think for ONE MINUTE I'm trying to find a way of getting him away for the time a fair judge sentenced him to is ABSURD! But, if his deafness got in the way of his being treated fairly, that needs to be addressed.

2) Do you honestly think I would use a forum in place of an educated attorney's advice? Really?

3) Thank you for those of you who gave me unemotional thoughts on the subject. Not one of you could be any more sickened by what he did than his own mother. Of course he wasn't raised this way. He made his own choices - and has to pay for them for the rest of his life.

4) I will ALWAYS help him to find hope. That's the stuff of unconditional love.
If you don't understand that, what a sad, sad shame.

**Jiro** · 02-13-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom

OK - before I leave this forum - I'll get some things out on the table.

1) My son did what he did - he sentence was just. He deserves to do time. To think for ONE MINUTE I'm trying to find a way of getting him away for the time a fair judge sentenced him to is ABSURD! But, if his deafness got in the way of his being treated fairly, that needs to be addressed.

2) Do you honestly think I would use a forum in place of an educated attorney's advice? Really?

3) Thank you for those of you who gave me unemotional thoughts on the subject. Not one of you could be any more sickened by what he did than his own mother. Of course he wasn't raised this way. He made his own choices - and has to pay for them for the rest of his life.

4) I will ALWAYS help him to find hope. That's the stuff of unconditional love.
If you don't understand that, what a sad, sad shame.

just a couple questions.

exactly what is he charged with? and how long is he sentenced for?

if you can share some details on his case... we may be able to help you but you're giving us an extremely limited information.

deafbillsmom · 02-13-2011, 05:26 PM

Possession of Child Pornography. 87 months.

Oceanbreeze · 02-13-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom

OK - before I leave this forum - I'll get some things out on the table.

1) My son did what he did - he sentence was just. He deserves to do time. To think for ONE MINUTE I'm trying to find a way of getting him away for the time a fair judge sentenced him to is ABSURD! But, if his deafness got in the way of his being treated fairly, that needs to be addressed.

2) Do you honestly think I would use a forum in place of an educated attorney's advice? Really?

3) Thank you for those of you who gave me unemotional thoughts on the subject. Not one of you could be any more sickened by what he did than his own mother. Of course he wasn't raised this way. He made his own choices - and has to pay for them for the rest of his life.

4) I will ALWAYS help him to find hope. That's the stuff of unconditional love.
If you don't understand that, what a sad, sad shame.

I have to ask you. What did you expect? This is public forum with many people here with differing opinions. This was certainly going to turn into a debate. That's #1.

2. We are not experts in legal matters. We could ONLY give opinions. If you wanted expert advise, then you needed to consult a lawyer. You brought this matter here. We simply commented. You know what they say about opinions......

I wish your son luck. He will need it.

Oceanbreeze · 02-13-2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Pedophillia is not a crime. It is a mental health diagnosis of the sexual dysfunction type.

Sex with a minor is a crime. One can have sex with a minor and not be a pedophilliac. Likewise, one can be diagnosed with pedophillia and be completely celebate, or limit sexual contact to adults.

Seriously? I always thought that someone who had sex with a minor was a pedophiliac? Difference in terminology?

**Jiro** · 02-13-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom

Possession of Child Pornography. 87 months.

so about 7 years. wow... I do agree that it is very excessive for just viewing child pornography however.... the reason for that is because your son was arrested by FBI... meaning he was subjected to federal sentencing guidelines. If he was tried at state court, it would be much less - probably couple years.

Federal's minimum prison sentence for possession of child pornography is 5 years, I believe (it was recently increased by Congress). That is somewhat excessive IMO. I don't think there's anything you can do about it except to have it reduced to 5 years but I assume that it largely depends on the nature of his crime.

I refer you to some cases -
Feds, Pa. differ on kid porn | The Times Leader, Wilkes-Barre & Scranton PA
Pennsylvania man sentenced to 6 years in prison for possession of hundreds of images of child sexual exploitation
Law.com - Pa. Justices: Internet Child Porn Search Constitutes 'Knowing Possession'

AlleyCat · 02-13-2011, 06:03 PM

I don't think the OP should have had to disclose what her son's crimes were.

She came here asking about ADA rights and feeling that her son's rights had been violated. Whether or not they were should have been the subject of this thread, not his actual crimes.

Shame.

**Jiro** · 02-13-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Seriously? I always thought that someone who had sex with a minor was a pedophiliac? Difference in terminology?

no. a person who had a sex with a minor is called a child rapist. or child molester.

The term "pedophile" is just a word that society used to shame a sex offender but it is not the term that legal system uses.

**Jiro** · 02-13-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

I don't think the OP should have had to disclose what her son's crimes were.

She came here asking about ADA rights and feeling that her son's rights had been violated. Whether or not they were should have been the subject of this thread, not his actual crimes.

Shame.

in order to see if her son's rights was violated or not, some details should be disclosed for better accuracy.

AlleyCat · 02-13-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbillsmom

Hi! I'm a hearing mom of a deaf son. He committed a crime and is waiting to be sent to Federal prison.
The FBI came to his apartment and took his computer, but didn't have an interpreter with them. You know with all the SSI records, they KNEW he was deaf - they even printed out his Miranda rights! So why wouldn't they have an interpreter?

He admits he did what he did, but he wants the FBI to have to pay for what they did - or didn't do.

Can anyone give me some advise?

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

in order to see if her son's rights was violated or not, some details should be disclosed for better accuracy.

He's already admitted what he's done, and found guilty for it. The issue was about not having an interpreter at the initial FBI visit, about the printed-out Miranda rights, and so forth. None of that has ANYTHING to do with his actual crime.

Glenn · 02-13-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Seriously? I always thought that someone who had sex with a minor was a pedophiliac? Difference in terminology?

No. It can depend on the ages of the persons involved.

Oceanbreeze · 02-13-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

No. It can depend on the ages of the persons involved.

Thank you. I seem to recall that I read that somewhere. Can't recall where it was, though.

**Smithtr** · 02-13-2011, 08:54 PM

I believe cyberspace internet illegal pornology and chat! that is wrong! crime charge! It is very risk abused and or verbal language conviced wrong!

Glenn · 02-13-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Thank you. I seem to recall that I read that somewhere. Can't recall where it was, though.

How many people lose their cherry before 18? Kids in high school...? They are both minors. It can depend on the state laws on what the age of consent is. Here is information I found for Washington:

Quote:

RCW 9A.44.093
Sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree.

(1) A person is guilty of sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree when: (a) The person has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual intercourse with another person who is at least sixteen years old but less than eighteen years old and not married to the perpetrator, if the perpetrator is at least sixty months older than the victim, is in a significant relationship to the victim, and abuses a supervisory position within that relationship in order to engage in or cause another person under the age of eighteen to engage in sexual intercourse with the victim; (b) the person is a school employee who has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual intercourse with an enrolled student of the school who is at least sixteen years old and not more than twenty-one years old and not married to the employee, if the employee is at least sixty months older than the student; or (c) the person is a foster parent who has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual intercourse with his or her foster child who is at least sixteen.

(2) Sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree is a class C felony.

(3) For the purposes of this section:

(a) "Enrolled student" means any student enrolled at or attending a program hosted or sponsored by a common school as defined in RCW 28A.150.020, or a student enrolled at or attending a program hosted or sponsored by a private school under chapter 28A.195 RCW, or any person who receives home-based instruction under chapter 28A.200 RCW.

(b) "School employee" means an employee of a common school defined in RCW 28A.150.020, or a grade kindergarten through twelve employee of a private school under chapter 28A.195 RCW, who is not enrolled as a student of the common school or private school.

RCW 9A.44.093: Sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree.

**Smithtr** · 02-13-2011, 09:09 PM

Look like strong POWER FBI handle! story seems!

Steinhauer · 02-14-2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Obsessions are not compulsions. Compulsions are behaviors. Obsessions are thoughts. People every day experience obsessions without compulsions.

That has been exactly what I have been saying. Pedophilia is a compulsion, not an obsession. One must act on an obsession to be considered a pedophile ... or am I wrong?

02-13-2011, 05:02 PM	#165 (permalink)
deafbillsmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 6	What a hornet's nest - and many of you are just wrong... OK - before I leave this forum - I'll get some things out on the table. 1) My son did what he did - he sentence was just. He deserves to do time. To think for ONE MINUTE I'm trying to find a way of getting him away for the time a fair judge sentenced him to is ABSURD! But, if his deafness got in the way of his being treated fairly, that needs to be addressed. 2) Do you honestly think I would use a forum in place of an educated attorney's advice? Really? 3) Thank you for those of you who gave me unemotional thoughts on the subject. Not one of you could be any more sickened by what he did than his own mother. Of course he wasn't raised this way. He made his own choices - and has to pay for them for the rest of his life. 4) I will ALWAYS help him to find hope. That's the stuff of unconditional love. If you don't understand that, what a sad, sad shame.

02-13-2011, 08:54 PM	#177 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,629	I believe cyberspace internet illegal pornology and chat! that is wrong! crime charge! It is very risk abused and or verbal language conviced wrong! __________________

02-13-2011, 09:09 PM	#179 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,629	Look like strong POWER FBI handle! story seems! __________________

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02-13-2011, 02:18 PM	#154 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,107	"Pedophilia is a clinical term, describing the condition of a person who has had reoccurring, arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activities with prepubescent children ( age 13 or younger ). This condition must haven been present for at least 6 months in order to be categorized as a pedophile. Pedophiles don’t necessarily have to act upon their urges and fantasies and might live their entire life not even touching one child. Child molesters act upon their urges and therefore commit a crime every time they touch a child in an inappropriate manner. Simply stated, not every pedophile is a child molester but every child molester is pedophile – a pedophile gone to the next level." Child Molestation Laws - State Resources \| Lawyers and Attorneys for Defense or Prosecution \| ChildMolestationLaws.com

02-13-2011, 02:23 PM	#155 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,514	Hmmmm, I wonder how many more prisons we will need to build in order to lock up every "pedophile" in this country.

02-13-2011, 02:55 PM	#162 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	Pedophillia is not a crime. It is a mental health diagnosis of the sexual dysfunction type. Sex with a minor is a crime. One can have sex with a minor and not be a pedophilliac. Likewise, one can be diagnosed with pedophillia and be completely celebate, or limit sexual contact to adults.

02-13-2011, 05:26 PM	#167 (permalink)
deafbillsmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 6	Possession of Child Pornography. 87 months.

02-13-2011, 06:03 PM	#171 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,758	I don't think the OP should have had to disclose what her son's crimes were. She came here asking about ADA rights and feeling that her son's rights had been violated. Whether or not they were should have been the subject of this thread, not his actual crimes. Shame.