FBI violated my son's ADA rights - Page 3

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

winking like that and being sympathetic about this.

how suspicious.... disturbing....

I am trying to understand how you came to that conclusion.

You have misrepresented the mother as the father, then you grouped pedophilia right in with child pornography.

The mother wrote the OP and child pornography is not the same as pedophilia. I am not sympathetic, nor am I supportive. I DO know that there are crooked cops, attorneys and judges. I am not saying they all are. I do know there are bona fide crooks looking for techicalities, but there are also innocent people in prison.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I'm talking about adults who can barely print their own names, and can read nothing. They can copy an address or memorize a phone number but that's about it. They can't fingerspell either except for names.

They don't have HS diplomas.

They don't use computers, text phones, or TTY. They can't read captions.

People do fall thru the cracks.

I wonder if the deafies that write in ASL would seem illiterate to a person who had no understanding of what wrting in ASL meant.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I wonder if the deafies that write in ASL would seem illiterate to a person who had no understanding of what wrting in ASL meant.

Those aren't the people I'm talking about.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I am trying to understand how you came to that conclusion.

You have misrepresented the mother as the father, then you grouped pedophilia right in with child pornography.

I know it's a mom. I simply used one wrong word - "his" instead of "her". and what difference does it make if it's a father or mom anyway?

Looks like you want to turn this thread into a farce but I'll play with your game for a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong -

1. A person who is into pedophilia is called a pedophile, yes?
2. A pedophile gets his "fix" and one of the ways is by downloading child pornography, yes?

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

The mother wrote the OP and child pornography is not the same as pedophilia. I am not sympathetic, nor am I supportive. I DO know that there are crooked cops, attorneys and judges. I am not saying they all are. I do know there are bona fide crooks looking for techicalities, but there are also innocent people in prison.

You've got some serious issue, dude.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I know it's a mom. I simply used one wrong word - "his" instead of "her". and what difference does it make if it's a father or mom anyway?

Looks like you want to turn this thread into a farce but I'll play with your game for a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong -

1. A person who is into pedophilia is called a pedophile, yes?
2. A pedophile gets his "fix" and one of the ways is by downloading child pornography, yes?

Probably, but not necessarily. A pedophile is a person who entices children sexually.

Did the son of the OP do that? Or, was he looking at child pornography?

The way you misinterpret what is actually stated is quite disturbing.

It is the same difference as threatening someone and actually assaulting them. They are similar, but not the same thing.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Those aren't the people I'm talking about.

Ah, I see. Then I actually do not know any deafies that cannot spell their name or write rudimentary english - however, it is more like ASL writing.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Probably, but not necessarily. A pedophile is a person who entices children sexually.

that alone proves my case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Did the son of the OP do that? Or, was he looking at child pornography?

You don't consider a person viewing child pornography as a pedophile?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

The way you misinterpret what is actually stated is quite disturbing.

I see. getting defensive there. I'm feeling some kind of foreboding now... I think there will be Titanic rerun in 30 min at channel AMC

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

that alone answers my question.

You don't consider a person viewing child pornography as a pedophile?

I see. getting defensive there. I'm feeling some kind of foreboding now... I think there will be Titanic rerun in 30 min at channel AMC

Not defensive at all. Your making *implications* again.

You are implying that the OP's son is a pedophile. A pedophile is a person who acts physically against children. Has the OP's son done that or not?

I do not know. Do you? If so, then yes, the OP's son is a pedophile, if not, then no, he is not.

Child pornography is definitely sick. Suppose you are visiting the Far East and accidentally see child pornography ... by your definition, it automatically makes you a pedophile.

Suppose you are watching x rated porn, it automatically makes you a rapist.

whatdidyousay! · 02-12-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

if you read all the posts including OP's other posts... you'll see that OP was trying to get his son out of jail based on trivial technicality - which doesn't exist.

Her son was arrested and charged for possession of child pornography images and possibly distribution too.

How do you think FBI caught him? most likely from months of investigation and undercover operation.

Secondly - the FBI acted within law by giving him a printed copy of Miranda's rights. Interpreter is not required because he is being arrested, not interrogated.

I'm sure the interpreter was provided for during interrogation and his hearings. And now his son has been found guilty and is now being sent to federal prison.

I know the FBI did months of investigation before making their move. I wonder if this was on TV in the state is happen in.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Not defensive at all. Your making *implications* again.

You are implying that the OP's son is a pedophile. A pedophile is a person who acts physically against children. Has the OP's son done that or not?

I do not know. Do you? If so, then yes, the OP's son is a pedophile, if not, then no, he is not.

Let me correct you right there. About your previous post where you said threatening and assaulting are similar but not the same thing.... Let me point it out that those two are not actually similar at all.

Threatening is where no physical harm has occurred.
Assault is where physical harm has occurred.
Pretty simple there in the court of law. nothing similar at all.

Now... pedophile and child pornography are actually intertwined together. we're not on medical or psychology subject. this is a legal subject so in the court of law, pedophile and child pornography are pretty much the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Child pornography is definitely sick. Suppose you are visiting the Far East and accidentally see child pornography ... by your definition, it automatically makes you a pedophile.

so are you implying that he viewed child pornography by mistake?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Suppose you are watching x rated porn, it automatically makes you a rapist.

how? You're telling me that a person participating in threesome by watching them is a rapist?

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 11:07 PM

"Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery."
Assault and Battery legal definition of Assault and Battery. Assault and Battery synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Let me correct you right there. About your previous post where you said threatening and assaulting are similar but not the same thing.... Let me point it out that those two are not actually similar at all.

Threatening is where no physical harm has occurred.
Assault is where physical harm has occurred.
Pretty simple there in the court of law. nothing similar at all.

Now... pedophile and child pornography are actually intertwined together. we're not on medical or psychology subject. this is a legal subject so in the court of law, pedophile and child pornography are pretty much the same thing.

so are you implying that he viewed child pornography by mistake?

how? You're telling me that a person participating in threesome by watching them is a rapist?

Maybe I am wrong

I would think that a pedophile has caused physical harm to a child. As in the act of enticement, or the act of molestation.

Perhaps they are intertwined, but I do not see it as the same thing as a person who watches child pornography. They are BOTH sick and disgusting, however, did the person who viewed the child pornography molest or entice the child?

I have always been under the impression that a pedophile stalked children for physical interaction. I would MUCH rather that those individuals be locked up in the slammer than someone who has a non threatening mental disorder that could be corrected through counselling.

posts from hell · 02-12-2011, 11:08 PM

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 11:21 PM

I mean seriously, would you rather know where all the people are who have watched child pornography, or the guy who butchered his wife and is out on parole? Or the guy who robbed First National and killed three cops?

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I mean seriously, would you rather know where all the people are who have watched child pornography, or the guy who butchered his wife and is out on parole? Or the guy who robbed First National and killed three cops?

Why does it have to be an either-or choice? Why not lock up all of them?

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Maybe I am wrong

I would think that a pedophile has caused physical harm to a child. As in the act of enticement, or the act of molestation.

Perhaps they are intertwined, but I do not see it as the same thing as a person who watches child pornography. They are BOTH sick and disgusting, however, did the person who viewed the child pornography molest or entice the child?

I have always been under the impression that a pedophile stalked children for physical interaction. I would MUCH rather that those individuals be locked up in the slammer than someone who has a non threatening mental disorder that could be corrected through counselling.

exactly why I said what I said in my post #52 (linked for your convenience - first line)

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Why does it have to be an either-or choice? Why not lock up all of them?

They should be locked up. However, knowing the location of two "pedophiles" who were guilty of child molestation 12 years ago because they had consensual sex when they were 17 is getting kind of ridiculous.

The dude that robbed first national and killed 3 cops isn't even a blip on the radar. But those two 17 year olds , oh my!

(just being sarcastic to make a point - not poking fun at you Reba).

whatdidyousay! · 02-12-2011, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

"Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery."
Assault and Battery legal definition of Assault and Battery. Assault and Battery synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

One of my neighbor made threatening gesture toward me when I was bringing my hearing dog out to pee. I called the cops and the cops told the guy if he threatens to harm me again he would be arrest threatening to assault me ! The did not touch me but he made a gesture of wanting to choke me!

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

They should be locked up. However, knowing the location of two "pedophiles" who were guilty of child molestation 12 years ago because they had consensual sex when they were 17 is getting kind of ridiculous.

The dude that robbed first national and killed 3 cops isn't even a blip on the radar. But those two 17 year olds , oh my!

(just being sarcastic to make a point - not poking fun at you Reba).

feel free to make a new thread about "pedophiles" having consensual sex because one of them is just 1 year shy of legal age.

That was not what happened in OP's case. You need to learn how to be objective.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

"Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery."
Assault and Battery legal definition of Assault and Battery. Assault and Battery synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

NOW you've given a very good example of 2 criminal charges that are "SIMILAR but NOT the same thing" - Battery and Assault. Those distinctive thing makes a difference when it comes to sentencing.

But in previous post - I was responding to Steinhauer's post about "Threatening" and "Assault." Those 2 things are not similar at all in terms of law.

posts from hell · 02-12-2011, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

Let me correct you right there. About your previous post where you said threatening and assaulting are similar but not the same thing.... Let me point it out that those two are not actually similar at all.

Threatening is where no physical harm has occurred.
Assault is where physical harm has occurred.
Pretty simple there in the court of law. nothing similar at all.

Now... pedophile and child pornography are actually intertwined together. we're not on medical or psychology subject. this is a legal subject so in the court of law, pedophile and child pornography are pretty much the same thing.

so are you implying that he viewed child pornography by mistake?

how? You're telling me that a person participating in threesome by watching them is a rapist?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

"Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.

The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery."
Assault and Battery legal definition of Assault and Battery. Assault and Battery synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

See colors for reference.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

feel free to make a new thread about "pedophiles" having consensual sex because one of them is just 1 year shy of legal age.

That is not what happened in OP's case. You need to learn how to be objective.

I was making an off hand remark at how people are being given damaging labels when in fact the label does not fit the situation.

Quote:

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), pedophilia is a paraphilia in which a person has intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children and on which feelings they have either acted or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty.[1]

That is the legal definition. Did the OP's son act on his urges against a child?

Were the two consenting 17 years olds (who are currently married for 11 years) really pedophile child molesters?

In other words, are they a mencae to society on the same level as a serial rapist/murderer? Why isn't the public made aware of the address/locations of the violent members of society out on parole?

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

That is the legal definition. Did the OP's son act on his urges against a child?

We don't know.

"...or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty"

We also don't know if he experienced the above, which is the rest of the definition.

We do know that child porno is made by exploiting children. Participating in child porno supports an industry that endangers, abuses and exploits children.

Quote:

Were the two consenting 17 years olds (who are currently married for 11 years) really pedophile child molesters?

I have no idea what case you're talking about, or how it relates to this one.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

That is the legal definition. Did the OP's son act on his urges against a child?

Were the two consenting 17 years olds (who are currently married for 11 years) really pedophile child molesters?

um.... that's a medical definition.

In legal definition - what can a person (pedophile) can get arrested for?

You can answer my question with yes/no for each of them.
1. child pornography?
2. child molestation?
3. child prostitution?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

In other words, are they a mencae to society on the same level as a serial rapist/murderer? Why isn't the public made aware of the address/locations of the violent members of society out on parole?

feel free to make a new thread about it. that has nothing to do with OP's situation.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

We don't know.

"...or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty"

We also don't know if he experienced the above, which is the rest of the definition.

We do know that child porno is made by exploiting children. Participating in child porno supports an industry that endangers, abuses and exploits children.

I have no idea what case you're talking about, or how it relates to this one.

exactly, and no mention was made as to whether the person, or persons, whom made the internet content he was viewing have been apprehended. Why is it even on the internet?

Its like .... a drug user vs. the dealers. Using is definitely heinous, but supplying the users doubly so.

whatdidyousay! · 02-12-2011, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Maybe I am wrong

I would think that a pedophile has caused physical harm to a child. As in the act of enticement, or the act of molestation.

Perhaps they are intertwined, but I do not see it as the same thing as a person who watches child pornography. They are BOTH sick and disgusting, however, did the person who viewed the child pornography molest or entice the child?

I have always been under the impression that a pedophile stalked children for physical interaction. I would MUCH rather that those individuals be locked up in the slammer than someone who has a non threatening mental disorder that could be corrected through counselling.

Wow Did I read this right ! You mean to tell me a person watching child pornography does not harm a child! Did you never stop to think about demand and supply! When a pedophile watched child pornography is put a demand on for MORE child pornography and that mean more children are kidnapped and sexually abused! I would love to see every person that watch
child pornography and made it behind bars for good! If the FBI could arrest everyone then all our children will be safe!

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

exactly, and no mention was made as to whether the person, or persons, whom made the internet content he was viewing have been apprehended. Why is it even on the internet?

Its like .... a drug user vs. the dealers. Using is definitely heinous, but supplying the users doubly so.

if the drug dealer dropped a drug on street and you saw that.... you picked it up, put it in your pocket, and whistle away.

should you be arrested for what you just did?

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

um.... that's a medical definition.

In legal definition - what can a person (pedophile) can get arrested for?

You can answer my question with yes/no for each of them.
1. child pornography?
2. child molestation?
3. child prostitution?

feel free to make a new thread about it. that has nothing to do with OP's situation.

Well, lets see ... suppose someone is in possession of cocaine, are they usually arrested for using the cocaine, or possession?

Can they be arrested for distribution? or possession? What if they did not use cocaine or distribute?

The implications to distribute and use cocaine are there, but can they be arrested for those crimes if those crimes had not been committed?

Was the OP's son arrested for pedophilia (the act of molesting a child, the physical act of acting upon his urges, his urges made him incompetent interpersonally)? Or, was he arrested for possession of child pornography?

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

if the drug dealer dropped a drug on street and you saw that.... you picked it up, put it in your pocket, and whistle away.

should you be arrested for what you just did?

good question. I personally wouldn't do that (and I have seen it happen many times in DC).

Usually, I would walk in the other direction before the gunfire erupted.

Picking it up, putting it in your pocket and walking away would just be stupid. I don't know if there is a law against being stupid ... maybe there should be one, we could always use more laws (sarcasm).

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02-12-2011, 11:07 PM	#72 (permalink)
Reba Granny Terp Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 39,166	"Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another. The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery." Assault and Battery legal definition of Assault and Battery. Assault and Battery synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

02-12-2011, 11:08 PM	#74 (permalink)
posts from hell Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9,434

02-12-2011, 11:21 PM	#75 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	I mean seriously, would you rather know where all the people are who have watched child pornography, or the guy who butchered his wife and is out on parole? Or the guy who robbed First National and killed three cops?