FBI violated my son's ADA rights - Page 2

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Has anyone given consideration to a deaf person who can neither read nor write English and has no terp.? How then is that deaf person's Miranda rights given?

Then the Miranda rights can't be explained until a terp (or even two terps, one being a CDI) is present. That doesn't mean a person can't be taken into custody until then. It means the person can't be questioned until then.

Quote:

Also, there is a problem with the search warrant being "good" if the person can not read it.

The person doesn't need to read or understand the search warrant when it's executed. (That's not just about deaf people but also illiterate people, foreign language people, or intoxicated people.) The person doesn't even need to be present. A search warrant doesn't require permission of the residents.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulf

... I like the idea of having Deaf prisons staffed with qualified professionals who understand deaf culture, counselors who sign, etc. It is so easy to set up and will save taxpayers far more money than they can imagine, since I am convinced the number of repeat offenders will be greatly reduced.

That would be a good idea. Are you thinking one national center, or smaller centers, one per state or region?

jillio · 02-12-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Has anyone given consideration to a deaf person who can neither read nor write English and has no terp.? How then is that deaf person's Miranda rights given? Also, there is a problem with the search warrant being "good" if the person can not read it.

Through an interpreter. But that interpreter has to be requested by the deaf individual.

I have never met a Deaf or deaf person who could not read and write English.

jillio · 02-12-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Then the Miranda rights can't be explained until a terp (or even two terps, one being a CDI) is present. That doesn't mean a person can't be taken into custody until then. It means the person can't be questioned until then.

The person doesn't need to read or understand the search warrant when it's executed. (That's not just about deaf people but also illiterate people, foreign language people, or intoxicated people.) The person doesn't even need to be present. A search warrant doesn't require permission of the residents.

Exactly.

jillio · 02-12-2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

That would be a good idea. Are you thinking one national center, or smaller centers, one per state or region?

In my state, there is one prison with a Deaf Unit, and all deaf/Deaf prisoners are sent to that one prison. The employees are better than the ones for general population, but they could still use a lot of educating regarding cultural issues, ASL, and accommodations.

whatdidyousay! · 02-12-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I'm sorry but it sounds as if you're trying to find anything in this forum to get him off the hook by pointing out some ADA violation... good luck.

Getting arrested by FBI and having his computer confiscated? Sounds like pedophile case? cyber stalking/bullying? fraud? Sounds like something serious so get a lawyer. seek legal advice from a lawyer, not forum. good luck.

Yeah, I agree with you Jiro, it would be best to find a lawyer and one that know something about the ADA Act would be better. The guy admitted to committed a crime to the FBI ,it will be tough getting out this unless the guy can prove he did not understand what the FBI what talking about! It was too bad he did not ask for a lawyer before talking!

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Through an interpreter. But that interpreter has to be requested by the deaf individual.

I have never met a Deaf or deaf person who could not read and write English.

I have met several.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

In my state, there is one prison with a Deaf Unit, and all deaf/Deaf prisoners are sent to that one prison. The employees are better than the ones for general population, but they could still use a lot of educating regarding cultural issues, ASL, and accommodations.

That's true in more than just the prison system, sadly.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

Yeah, I agree with you Jiro, it would be best to find a lawyer and one that know something about the ADA Act would be better. The guy admitted to committed a crime to the FBI ,it will be tough getting out this unless the guy can prove he did not understand what the FBI what talking about! It was too bad he did not ask for a lawyer before talking!

Are you sure that he didn't have a lawyer prior to confessing?

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

What is that deaf person's main communication mode?

I would say that a deaf person who can neither read or write English would have to be fairly rare in the English-speaking world.

uh ... no, its not that rare.

Rudimentary english yes, complicated matters english, no.

whatdidyousay! · 02-12-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Are you sure that he didn't have a lawyer prior to confessing?

I hope he had a lawyer before confessing! I am not sure why the guy did not ask his lawyer the questions his mother is concerned about. If I was the mother I would be talking to lawyer that handle her son's case or hire another lawyer if the son lawyer is not allowed to talk to the mother.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

uh ... no, its not that rare.

Rudimentary english yes, complicated matters english, no.

I hate to say it but I know at least a few who are functionally illiterate. I'm sure there are more out there then we know.

You aren't going to run into the illiterate deaf people at Face Book, or AD, or even Deaf get-togethers. Once they are adults, you see them only at the hospital and social service agencies. Once in a while, you might run into them at the grocery store or on the street.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

I hope he had a lawyer before confessing! I am not sure why the guy did not ask his lawyer the questions his mother is concerned about. If I was the mother I would be talking to lawyer that handle her son's case or hire another lawyer if the son lawyer is not allowed to talk to the mother.

I don't know. I think it's obvious that we're not getting the whole story here.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

Yeah, I agree with you Jiro, it would be best to find a lawyer and one that know something about the ADA Act would be better. The guy admitted to committed a crime to the FBI ,it will be tough getting out this unless the guy can prove he did not understand what the FBI what talking about! It was too bad he did not ask for a lawyer before talking!

how did you know he admitted to it and he never had a TERP?

read the OP. It said the FBI came in to arrest him and to confiscate his computer. that means the FBI caught him red-handed in FBI undercover operation. the FBI had search warrant and arrest warrant. terp is not needed to be presented at the time of arrest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

I hope he had a lawyer before confessing! I am not sure why the guy did not ask his lawyer the questions his mother is concerned about. If I was the mother I would be talking to lawyer that handle her son's case or hire another lawyer if the son lawyer is not allowed to talk to the mother.

you need to stop jumping to conclusion and getting all emotional.

whatdidyousay! · 02-12-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

how did you know he admitted to it and he never had a TERP?

read the OP. It said the FBI came in to arrest him and to confiscate his computer. that means the FBI caught him red-handed in FBI undercover operation. the FBI had search warrant and arrest warrant. terp is not needed to be presented at the time of arrest.

you need to stop jumping to conclusion and getting all emotional.

"Hi! I'm a hearing mom of a deaf son. {He committed a crime} and is waiting to be sent to Federal prison.
The FBI came to his apartment and took his computer, but didn't have an interpreter with them. You know with all the SSI records, they KNEW he was deaf - they even printed out his Miranda rights! So why wouldn't they have an interpreter?

{He admits he did what he did}, but he wants the FBI to have to pay for what they did - or didn't do.

Can anyone give me some advise?"

This is what the OP said , the mother and son both said he committed a crime! Maybe you should reread what the OP said and stop jumping to conclusion ! I am not the one gettting all emotional , you're!

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 09:48 PM

How do they know he admitted to anything or even understood the accusation?

Was it written down? If so, then whats the deal about needing an interpreter? Is he functionally literate?

I know a functionally illiterate ASL only user who signed an admission form thinking it was a release form.

there was no interpreter even when he requested it many times.

Now, we have to define what functionally literate means .... normal everyday conversational english is far different from legal forms.

Glenn · 02-12-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Through an interpreter. But that interpreter has to be requested by the deaf individual.

I have never met a Deaf or deaf person who could not read and write English.

I met one guy who was basically functionally illiterate. He could not read cursive handwriting very well. He had maybe a 2nd grade reading level. Just a really nice guy, but I think he got some bad genes or his mom drank when he was inside her. I worked as his tutor for a few months to try to get his reading level up. Nice guy but also a sad situation.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 09:58 PM

Maybe its just me ... I don't know. But I know quite a high number of functionally illiterate deafies in my neck of the woods. They all have at least HS diplomas.

When they sit down at the computer and want to order something on e-bay, or something similar it always "hey Steinie, how do you spell ...... you know, that thing [describe it in sign]?"

Am I the only one?

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatdidyousay!

"Hi! I'm a hearing mom of a deaf son. {He committed a crime} and is waiting to be sent to Federal prison.
The FBI came to his apartment and took his computer, but didn't have an interpreter with them. You know with all the SSI records, they KNEW he was deaf - they even printed out his Miranda rights! So why wouldn't they have an interpreter?

{He admits he did what he did}, but he wants the FBI to have to pay for what they did - or didn't do.

Can anyone give me some advise?"

This is what the OP said , the mother and son both said he committed a crime! Maybe you should reread what the OP said and stop jumping to conclusion ! I am not the one gettting all emotional , you're!

if you read all the posts including OP's other posts... you'll see that OP was trying to get his son out of jail based on trivial technicality - which doesn't exist.

Her son was arrested and charged for possession of child pornography images and possibly distribution too.

How do you think FBI caught him? most likely from months of investigation and undercover operation.

Secondly - the FBI acted within law by giving him a printed copy of Miranda's rights. Interpreter is not required because he is being arrested, not interrogated.

I'm sure the interpreter was provided for during interrogation and his hearings. And now his son has been found guilty and is now being sent to federal prison.

Glenn · 02-12-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Maybe its just me ... I don't know. But I know quite a high number of functionally illiterate deafies in my neck of the woods. They all have at least HS diplomas.

When they sit down at the computer and want to order something on e-bay, or something similar it always "hey Steinie, how do you spell ...... you know, that thing [describe it in sign]?"

Am I the only one?

I think that is not uncommon. I guess we'd need to define exactly what functional illiteracy means.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

if you read all the posts including OP's other posts... you'll see that OP was trying to get his son out of jail based on trivial technicality - which doesn't exist.

Her son was arrested and charged for possession of child pornography images and possibly distribution too.

How do you think FBI caught him? most likely from months of investigation and undercover operation.

Secondly - the FBI acted within law by giving him a printed copy of Miranda's rights. Interpreter is not required because he is being arrested, not interrogated.

I'm sure the interpreter was provided for during interrogation and his hearings. And now his son has been found guilty and is now being sent to federal prison.

She is the mom, not the dad, and she never said it was child pornography.

However, as far as I know, child pornography is the only arrestable offense I can think of in regards to the whole pornography thing.

I was reading a report a few years ago, where someone had his computer hacked and was sent to federal prison because child pornography was on his computer and he never knew. It was really hard for him to prove it but eventually he did - after spending several years in the slammer.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

How do they know he admitted to anything or even understood the accusation?

Was it written down? If so, then whats the deal about needing an interpreter? Is he functionally literate?

I know a functionally illiterate ASL only user who signed an admission form thinking it was a release form.

there was no interpreter even when he requested it many times.

Now, we have to define what functionally literate means .... normal everyday conversational english is far different from legal forms.

we? I don't trust your definition. I know for sure that your definition of such thing is way off from already established legal definitions with specific parameters.

I believe the judge knows for sure that he is competent enough to stand the trial. Hell - lot of career criminals are not so bright themselves. They may not know what 2x2 is but they are competent enough to know that what they did were wrong.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

She is the mom, not the dad, and she never said it was child pornography.

However, as far as I know, child pornography is the only arrestable offense I can think of in regards to the whole pornography thing.

I was reading a report a few years ago, where someone had his computer hacked and was sent to federal prison because child pornography was on his computer and he never knew. It was really hard for him to prove it but eventually he did - after spending several years in the slammer.

FBI violated my son's ADA rights

yep she admitted it.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

FBI violated my son's ADA rights

yep she admitted it.

She said pornography ... not child pornography.

But, I am assuming it is child pornography even though that is not what she said.

Judges make mistakes all the time. Some do it intentionally.

posts from hell · 02-12-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Has anyone given consideration to a deaf person who can neither read nor write English and has no terp.? How then is that deaf person's Miranda rights given? Also, there is a problem with the search warrant being "good" if the person can not read it.

This thread is about this specific person.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

She said pornography ... not child pornography.

But, I am assuming it is child pornography even though that is not what she said.

Judges make mistakes all the time. Some do it intentionally.

look at my post that she responded to....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

I'm sorry but it sounds as if you're trying to find anything in this forum to get him off the hook by pointing out some ADA violation... good luck.

Getting arrested by FBI and having his computer confiscated? Sounds like pedophile case? cyber stalking/bullying? fraud? Sounds like something serious so get a lawyer. seek legal advice from a lawyer, not forum. good luck.

I think a person with reasonable intelligence can surmise that it's a child pornography charge. and I think a person with any range of intelligence knows the only type of pornography that can get you arrested by FBI is child pornography...

the only person who made a mistake here is OP's son.

Steinhauer · 02-12-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

look at my post that she responded to....

I think a person with reasonable intelligence can surmise that it's a child pornography charge. and I think a person with any range of intelligence knows the only type of pornography that can get you arrested by FBI is child pornography...

the only person who made a mistake here is OP's son.

I actually agree with you - I *think* he is guilty and trying to find a technicality. However, you asked several other questions that she may have been responding to.

Child pornography and pedophilia are not the same thing.

**Reba** · 02-12-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

Maybe its just me ... I don't know. But I know quite a high number of functionally illiterate deafies in my neck of the woods. They all have at least HS diplomas.

When they sit down at the computer and want to order something on e-bay, or something similar it always "hey Steinie, how do you spell ...... you know, that thing [describe it in sign]?"

Am I the only one?

I'm talking about adults who can barely print their own names, and can read nothing. They can copy an address or memorize a phone number but that's about it. They can't fingerspell either except for names.

They don't have HS diplomas.

They don't use computers, text phones, or TTY. They can't read captions.

People do fall thru the cracks.

**Jiro** · 02-12-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steinhauer

I actually agree with you - I *think* he is guilty and trying to find a technicality. However, you asked several other questions that she may have been responding to.

Child pornography and pedophilia are not the same thing.

winking like that and being sympathetic about this.

how suspicious.... disturbing....

posts from hell · 02-12-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

winking like that and being sympathetic about this.

how suspicious.... disturbing....

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02-12-2011, 09:48 PM	#46 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	How do they know he admitted to anything or even understood the accusation? Was it written down? If so, then whats the deal about needing an interpreter? Is he functionally literate? I know a functionally illiterate ASL only user who signed an admission form thinking it was a release form. there was no interpreter even when he requested it many times. Now, we have to define what functionally literate means .... normal everyday conversational english is far different from legal forms.

02-12-2011, 09:58 PM	#48 (permalink)
Steinhauer Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 8,191 Blog Entries: 1	Maybe its just me ... I don't know. But I know quite a high number of functionally illiterate deafies in my neck of the woods. They all have at least HS diplomas. When they sit down at the computer and want to order something on e-bay, or something similar it always "hey Steinie, how do you spell ...... you know, that thing [describe it in sign]?" Am I the only one?