Daredevel7

I recently went to a training meant for human resources people to hire people with disabilities. I got a workbook that lists possible accomodation for each type of disability. Here are a few quotes for deafness (congenital):

"Provide co-worker and management awareness training to teach basic sign language and the writing style some deaf people use."

"Allow extra time and/or use of qualified interpreters for written tests which cannot be waived."

These accomodations make sense if the job does not require writing skills. However, if the job does require reading and writing skills, do you think these accomodations should still apply?

Personally, I don't think so. Deaf people can write English and there's so many free services that can help them develop their English. Also, I see no reason why co-workers should take training to adapt to the deaf person's writing style if writing is part of the deaf person's job. However, I'd like to hear the flip side of the coin.

Thoughts?

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

A

While deaf can read and write English, there are those who are more comfortable writing in ASL and I think that's what they meant. In a way, it is like translating written Spanish.

But for me, I've always have trouble writing (not in ASL or any sign language because I grew up as a speechreading oral deaf). I certainly hope they don't discriminate me based on my writing. It's not always easy to teach deaf people how to write, but this doesn't mean they can't read. Deaf people can read, but express themselves is a different story because it take alot of figuring out (the correct word usage, correct sentence order, correct grammar, correct vocabulary.. stuffs that deaf people don't always hear everyday). I have been to many writing workshops too.

I think it depend on the job. If it is a journalist or something, yes. But if it is for communication or making notes and all that, no.

Daredevel7

Can one even write true ASL?

Doesn't ASL use facial expressions, etc as part of its language?

Now keep in mind that this section that I quoted from also says to provide interpreters, CART, TTY, etc. The usual stuff.

No offense, but I would hope they DO discriminate you for your writing if the job requires good writing. (Although, personally, I think you write very well.). I expect a company to discriminate me for a theatre job that requires me to speak and sing well. Perhaps using the word discriminate is wrong but you get the idea.

I think employers need to to understand how to separate disabilities and qualifications.

A

I already wrote it depend on the job. Just about every jobs require reading and writing. I think deaf people will be homeless if there is no SSI if they keep discriminating their hearing, speech, and their writing on top of that. They gonna have to cut deaf people some slack so they can feed their family.

JClarke

People have levels of writing and I can see some people writing in true ASL, and in my own sign language as well.

__________________

A

JClarke, you reminded me how many people hire people who don't speak and write well in English because their foreign language is their first language. They hire them for Professional jobs too.

Tousi

Writing in true ASL....what the heck is that? Don't you mean just bad grammar?

JClarke

Yeah - I am in a professional job, and AUSLAN is my first language however I have a good level of written english and that improves a lot overtime into the professional job.

__________________

JClarke

Yes

__________________

Daredevel7

To me, I think it's worse for BOTH the employers and the deaf individuals if they get hired IN SPITE of their lack of needed skills. I think well meaning employers try to "give them a chance" and "give them slack" and allow them to continue things that frustrates their coworkers. This in turn would frustrate the deaf individuals.

Just to give a scenario, picture a deaf person having an job that requires bi-weekly reports (which seems to be very common). The deaf individual submits the reports in the "deaf style" for months until the person receiving them gets frustrated from trying to understand the reports. Who knows what would happen then.

My point is, before the deaf individual even starts work, the needed skills must be addressed somehow. Either from working a way around it, taking advantage of the free services to develop English, or simply use an interpreter to translate ASL to written English. Notice all of the options do not affect the coworkers.

I just don't think it's a good idea to force the coworkers to read "deaf style" English, especially when it pertains to the job.

A

you say you wouldn't expect them to hire you for theatre because of your speech.. what if every job expect a good speech? and they get frustrated because you don't speak clearly enough for them. Or get frustrated you can't hear enough for them?

Bottesini

This is going to go into the realm of pure silliness very quickly.

There is a National Deaf Theater...

And it is obvious that there are many job choices that are in the professional realm that don't require speech.

__________________

A

yes, I realize that. the solution is simple. But there are jobs that don't need to be nitpicking and expect a perfect grammar, speech, and hearing. Just enough that is understandable.

Tousi

Sure, point taken but then again, there are probably jobs that require writing skills, too. Then what? Either the person gets hired and problems begin or there's a work-around. Reality is, most deaf and hearing for that matter don't apply for the latter kinds of jobs, imo.

A

I mentioned it several times, it depend on the job (and gave a example: journalism)

People need to remember that deaf people already went to school and all grown up now. They can't turn back the clock and fix their grammar style. They can only get by with what they already have and they still need jobs to feed their family AND keep their sanity. yes they can work to improve but it is still not easy..

Bottesini

Why would you think someone with poor written language skills should aspire to a career in journalism?

Couldn't we once have a discussion that had some correlation to reality?

__________________

A

Journalism as in writing a newspaper for the mainstream. They are going to have a very hard time being hired for that. Are you saying why deaf people with bad writing would be interested in that profession? I never said they would be interested, I was just pointing out that I do understand the important of writing for some jobs. I was talking about jobs like CNA... They require alittle bit of writing, but they don't need to nitpicking.

A

there is this college professor (he was my professor too, btw) who came to America (he was from Russia) to teach computer programming. His English speech and grammar was very hard to understand and everyone had a difficult time. But they did manage.

JClarke

I am sure his english and grammar improved overtime, right?

__________________

A

who knows? I haven't seen him since.

my husband said alot of people from other countries came to where he work, and he doesn't seem to have a difficult time understanding, so they must have improved.

shel90

I had professors at Gallaudent whose ASL skills were poor but us deaf people had to adapt to their style of signing so....

I don't know what to say on this matter because hearing people r getting away with it wih jobs that requires ASL skills by having poor ASL skills.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Bottesini

Wouldn't that be Gallaudet's fault for hiring them?

Why did no one protest?

__________________

JClarke

DEAF POWER!!!!

__________________

Bottesini

__________________

melissa

If writing's not part of the job, I think some training is still useful- what if the deaf person writes a note- so that people can understand each other. I don't think awareness is ever a bad thing. My job requires good written skills, which I have. I take phone calls but I'm not very good at hearing them- am ok on my mobile, no t setting, just noisy at work and there are quiet callers! My job's computer based. I wouldn't apply for something like a call centre, because I'd hate it, even if I could hear perfectly on the phone

shel90

That was before the total revamp. That happened during the year I graduated so I heard that it is a lot better. I was new to the Deaf world at that time and couldnt identify those who had poor signing skills. I thought it was me as a new signer until later when I started meeting people and getting word that there were lots of complaints filed against this situation.

Not only at Gallaudet, but it is really everywhere. Educational terps with poor signing skills who get hired to interpret for deaf children who are mainstreamed, some TODs, and so forth.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Daredevel7

I agree that for the most part, they shouldn't nick pick on the grammar/spelling. No one is perfect. However, I would say that if Microsoft Word can't even fix your grammar on a regular basis, then something's gotta be done.

As for the teachers who are not fluent in signing, do you think it's just because they wouldn't hire deaf people who are fluent in ASL or there is a lack of interest in those kinda jobs, therefore a lack of job candidates?

A

I know some of you may not believe this but I did pass English 101 in a community college. Ask me if I deserve it. No, I don't think so because the teacher knew I was deaf so she was grading me from that prospective. I almost applied for a job in Newspaper field (there were positions I was interested, and I had the education for it)... but I decided not to because I was afraid they would turn me down because I don't think my writing can compete with a hearing person's writing.

Daredevel7

First of all, I honestly don't know what you are talking about. I'm not an expert but it seems to me that your English is on par with hearing people.

Second of all, they didn't turn you down, you THOUGHT they might turn you down. There's a difference.

You had the education for it and you have good writing skills, so I think it's safe to say that you had the qualified skills for the job, which should be the most important thing.

If you truly don't think you deserved to pass English 101 (which is BS to me honestly), then do you think it was right for you to pass English 101 because the teacher "gave you some slack"?

A

yes, she did... you see when I first enter college, they told me I didn't pass the requirement for writing... so I had to take a special class in college and then move on to English 101 (I also took few other writing course in college after that). My writing was really bad back then. this is my writing in about 12 years later. It took me 12 years and many internet/captioning later and I don't think I still there yet.

edited: I should mention that I had a tutor who went over my homework for me.. I couldn't do it on my own.


here is what I failed on, in my college, everyone entering have to take this test: http://www.act.org/compass/sample/writing.html